Catcup

My last year in residence, VP called us all into the chapel and gave us a slide show of the building of this Corps Chalet. He told us that it was being built FOR THE WAY CORPS, and that he and Dotsie would live in the bottom floor after retirement, while the rest of the Chalet was FOR THE WAY CORPS. Specifically, it was for Corps travelling through the area who needed to overnight, or for Corps meetings, get togethers, etc. Specifically for WAY CORPS USE. The next year, Ambassador One flew a bunch of us from Illinois out for a weekend at the CORPS CHALET. Imagine my surprise, when I found that not only did VP and Dotsie NOT live in the bottom floor. That was occupied by houselhold help for the Martindales, who were living in the upstairs rooms. I was totally confused as to why it suddenly turned into the "President's Home." I did later hear the explanation that VP had changed his mind and not wanted to live in the thing. Fine, then keep it open for just THE WAY CORPS as originally intended. Instead, he handed it over to the Martindales. BunchaBullshirt.

Same here, dear! If it hadn't been for our little lunches and workouts together, I'd have really lost my mind. And yes, I do believe we missed our cue... we shoulda walked back then. After I confronted Auntie Em, Donna, and Bill Winegarner, my theme song was "Every Breath You Take." Still is...

Way Corps scum? That's a new one. I guess then, I was both Way Corps scum, and Bookstore scum-- that is, according to Auntie Em. There are very few of us around here with that monniker... so I guess that makes Sunesis and I still rather elite... :P :lol:

Thanks, Sunesis, and good point, Dot. Bliss-- Wxllxce readily picked apart other people's children, yet was blind to what was going on with his own. His daughter definitely had some issues. The day they came to the Cleveland area, I had arranged in advance (before even meeting them) for them to have a key to our house, because I was at a hospital helping a believer through her first chemotherapy treatment. Probably a big mistake, God knows what they did there unsupervised. When I arrived, Jxsephine was sitting in the living room oblivious while her daughter was running all over the neighborhood and had climbed inside (INSIDE) the rabbit cage in the back yard. I swear that kid was so out of control she made my own daughter look like a lazy midsummer afternoon. The kid definitely had some jealousy and control issues, I noted when I babysat for her. But God forbid you should say anything about it....

Kind, yes, that night he was kind. But that's not the WHOLE story. VPW was later manipulated by the Illinois caball. After he called Rxb Kxhoe to Rome City and travelled there for a face to face meeting, I got a letter from VP that was terse and abrasive. It was clear Rxb Kxhoe and his wife had given VP the whole "she needs to be a quieter wife with her husband and be more like Dotsie" routine. VPW knew these men were spiritually blind, deaf, and dumb enough to screw up people's lives in a major way, yet he left them in situ. For years, in fact. Just like a cancer, to continue to corrupt the truth and spread destruction. VPW allowed to stay in place in the state of Illinois, men whom he KNEW to be abusive toward God's people. He KNEW this limb leader was a thick-headed idiot who failed to believe a person who told him a truth crucial to a person's survival. VP KNEW the AC had his head up the LC's foot, and that the BC had his up the AC's foot. VP KNEW what all these men in Illinois did to me and said to me was wrong in every sense of the word. And not only did he allow them ALL to stay in place, NOT ONE OF THEM EVER APOLOGIZED. And you know damn well if VPW had told them to apologize, they would have done it in a heartbeat. The closest any of them ever came to apologizing was Frxnk Scxife, after LCM had his little meltdown on the tarmac of the airport in Chicago following his visit to Gartmore. After coming back from a year on staff, I told him things were fxcked up at HQ and he thought I was talking out of my head. Then, after Geer blew LCM out of the water in Scotland, on his way back home, a suicidal Craig detoured to Chicago to confide in his good buddy, Frxnk. Then Frxnk got to see for real what someone was like who was talking out of his head! Frxnk had not spoken to me directly for several years. Yet when he finally saw for himself what I had been telling him for so long was true, I was the first person he called, and the only person he told.

The Way has a long history of interfering in relationships. This is not just something invented by the Martindales in order to "oversee" their flock... In 1972 when I was first introduced to TWI I was in a loving relationship with a wonderful guy. We had both been part of the typical late-60's early 70's drug culture. I introduced my boyfriend to the fellowship. My fellowship coordinator's wife, Frxn, later asked me why I would want to be with a guy with such a weird last name, and began making fun of it. His name never bothered me, I just thought her reaction showed her ignorance. Later on, when we became engaged, she made fun of the fact I actually had a beautiful engagement ring (something she never got when she eloped-- so I just took it as jealousy). As time went on and I became more dedicated to TWI, she and her husband, Jxhn Nxve, disparaged my fiance to me by telling me he wasn't "committed enough" and was "full of pride" and that he would drag me down. Although we both became twig coordinators, at every leader's meeting, our BC would rail on my fiance for being "full of pride" and "not committed enough." These meetings were non-stop shouting at us for two hours at a time, mostly reproving my fiance for his lack of commitment. So, over the span of less than a year the Nxves were eventually successful in placing a wedge between me and my finace. I decided to go out WOW and broke my engagement to him. It literally broke his heart. --And mine, because we truly loved each other. My choice, as they presented it to me, was to choose God over my fiance. So I broke it off and gave back the ring. All carefully contrived by my fellowship coordinators. He left the ministry. Later on when I went into The Way Corps, he came back into the ministry, mainly, because I encouraged him to do so whenever I had happened to see him the previous year. During my first year in residence, he contacted me and told me he missed me, so I invited him out to Emporia to "get healed." He came for a visit, and got back into TWI. I went out WOW on my interim year and he went as well, and we were assigned to the same state. Moneyhands discouraged my involvement with him because he "was not Way Corps material." I was extremely torn. At the end of the year, he asked me to marry him again. I told him I needed to marry a corps man, per VPW's advice. He said he would go in. I said to be engaged for 4-5 years was not fair to either of us, so I turned him down. He became apprentice Corps. I became involved with Geek during my last year in residence, and became engaged right before Christmas break. When I went home for Christmas, my old fiance came to visit me at my parent's house. He was apprentice Corps now, and had my old engagement ring in his pocket. But before he popped the question a third time, I broke the news to him that I had become engaged, and I broke his heart again, bringing him to tears. Geek and I married right after graduation. I don't want to get into all the emotion about it, but it was extremely hard on both me and my ex-fiance. I saw him at the Rock of Ages a couple weeks after I got married and he looked like his best friend had died. His eyes were red. He teared up when we talked. He went through a very rough period but eventually graduated from The Way Corps, married and had children, and is still married. However, some time after he married, he discovered he had an incurable illness, probably contracted during that rough period. While he is still married, he did indicate when we last spoke, that their relationship is distant. I hear from him about once every other year or so. And he is still stuck in that cult. During the early part of my marriage to Geek, he went through his own rough period with alcohol, and when I tried to get his leadership to see he had a problem, no one would believe me, from the Region leader on down. I even got a phone call from the LC's wife telling me she felt I needed to be a "quieter wife with my husband," and "more like Mrs. Wierwille." After asking her to give me specific incidents regarding my behavior, she could not offer any. I then told her in no uncertain terms that if she ever wanted to call me up again and reprove me, she had damned well better have something more specific in mind and hung up on her. Later on that year, we were invited to a Corps Thanksgiving dinner at the AC's house. After dinner, I was called into a parlor and was seated in a chair in the middle of the room. Frxnk Scxife, Krxs Kxle, Rxb Kxhoe, and several others all stood around screaming and yelling at me that I was "ruining my husband's ministry." The entire time, I sat there quietly staring at my husband, who knew the truth. Finally, I stood up and told them "FXXK YOU. I don't want anything to do with you or with your ministry in this state." I stood up, walked out, and my husband followed me out of the room. On the way home, he apologized for his error, and vowed to make it right-- which he eventually did. From that point forward, we stopped going to anything in the state of Illinois other than Corps meetings (something you couldn't get away with nowadays), and sent our ABS in directly to HQ instead of through Illinois, as a show of no confidence in the state leadership. A couple months later when we were invited to HQ to a research meeting, I went to VPW and was telling him what had happened at the Thanksgiving "ambush." Before I could finish, he said, "Aw, hell, I would have said FXXK YOU and walked out. I burst into tears and VPW asked Geek what I was crying about. Geek said, "Well, sir that's exactly what she did!" VP laughed and said, "Aw, that's my girl!" He built us a fire in his study and told us to stay there as long as we wanted, and left to go to a meeting. The next day, VPW called the LC to a private face to face meeting and kicked his foot, and nearly fired him. But I was always treated by the leadership in the state of Illinois, like I had ruined Geek's ministry when I actually saved his foot. Ask him, he'll tell you so. --And those men always resented the fact I went over their heads and it rained shxt on them from the top down. Fast forward to coming to Cleveland. Mxrk and Jxsephine Wxllxce and Lxrry and Cxnnie Pxnxrello did everything they could to interfere with our family and divide our marriage. At every turn, Mxrk Wxllxce tried to interfere with our daughter's medical care, even enlisting the help of Jxn Gexrge to get me to not follow the care prescribed by an entire team of physicians and specialists at The Cleveland Clinic. Wxllxce's behavior toward me and Geek was very reminiscent of Jxhn Nxve's behavior toward me and my fiance back in 1972. Wxllxce disparaged my husband to me every chance he got, telling me that Geek had a lack of "passion for the truth." Cxnnie Pxnxrello even blatantly stated that my ankle was not healing because "Your husband doesn't love you enough." (It was not healing because it was broken in an unmarked trench at The Rock of Ages and then misdiagnosed-- another long story) Through constant pressure we refused to bend to their demands and they simply increased the pressure. Wxllxce eventually removed us from being fellowship coordinators. He came to our home, sent my daughter to her room (Oh, yes HE did) and then sat just on the other side of the wall from where she was sitting and screamed at us at the top of his lungs. He shouted that if Geek didn't "get a passion for the truth," that Geek would "die a lonely old man," and that I would be "hobbled for life" and that our daughter would become a "stark, raving lunatic." My daughter was only 10 years old at the time she heard his words screamed through her bedroom wall. She is now almost 21 years old, and recently told me that she is haunted by Wxllxce's "prophecy." She spent years worrying that her dad would die, that something awful would happen to me, and that she would go crazy. What Mxrk Wxllxce, a paid minister and representative of The Way International did to her-- he got paid by The Way International to do this to her and her family-- this has affected her severely. And one day when she is of age, she just might take him and them to task for it. What she decides to do about it when she becomes an adult is strictly up to her. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was simple. As simple as Jxsephine Wxllxce undercutting my authority as a mother with my own child. I forbade my daughter from taking another piece of candy from a dish. Jxsephine told her to go ahead and take it anyway, right in front of me right after I said that. That was enough for me. When we left fellowship that night, on the way home, I announced we were never going back, that I had had enough. My daughter was so upset (because she just KNEW NOW her Dad was GOING to die, that something awful WOULD happen to me, and then she WOULD be going crazy), she called Jxsephine as soon as we got home. I let her. I just let her. I didn't care what they thought, because I was done with them. Mark Wxllxce came by the next day and demanded we meet with him. I keep wondering, why the hell did I go and meet with him if I was done? I dunno, just chalk it up to my even still feeling I was under some kind of spiritual obligation. (Hell, it's a cult, remember?) So, we all went. They again shut my daughter up in the next room while they screamed and yelled at us. Imagine the fear of a 10 year old girl who is having to listen to such tirades over the sound of the TV. To this day, I cannot stand "Charlotte's Web," the video they put on for her hoping to drown out their screaming. So AFTER I decided to leave, Wxllxce and TWI decided to put us on probation and then M&A us. Manipulative? Destroyers? What do YOU think....

In answer to the question in the title of this thread: No. I don't believe it now, and I sure didn't believe it then. I specifically taught that the nametag meant nothing to God, saying that at the bema, a lot of people will be surprised that God won't give a damn about your stinkin' nametag. He will only want to know: What did you do for Him and in His name?

VP taught that "the life of the flesh is in the blood." He used the above quote in the foundational piffle class to prove his point. The blood does carry oxygen throughout the body, as you point out. And Leviticus does make a connection between blood and life itself. VP also taught that the person becomes a living soul with his or her first breath. I don't know when the "soul" becomes "alive," and I don't buy into VP's lack of concern for the fetus as opposed to a newborn baby, but I do know this medically and anatomically: At the exact moment a newborn infant takes it's first breath, the circulation of the blood in it's body changes from fetal circulation to normal circulation, changing its course in the body and direction in the heart and lungs. An obstetric nurse or doc here could possibly give you a more exact description. But I do know, that if a certain heart valve involved in the process of changing over the circulation doesn't close completely at this precise moment, the new circulation is compromised and the blood is not properly oxygenated, causing a "blue" baby. If not surgically corrected, it is possible that the baby can suffer severe anoxia and die. I thought it was interesting to note studying fetal anatomy and circulation, that the circulation changeover always happens at the precise moment the first breath is taken. I don't think that necessarily proves anything, just is interesting.

You're correct on that, dmiller. LCM never taught it that way, either. SIT was proof of salvation, but you could be born again and not be "instructed in the way of God more perfectly."

I'd also like to know how he came by the photograph he shows on the website. I just might still have the negatives somewhere. The only person I ever gave them to was vpw.

Yep, Chas, that Peacock B&B is the real deal. On the website, you can actually see part of the veranda and the awesome view across the valley. I'm glad someone made it into a B&B, the home was absolutely beautiful back in 1978, and it looks like a decent restoration has since been done. I'll keep that in mind should I ever travel back out that direction. But a "real" doctorate? Nah. Not at all. If you want that title, you'd damned well be prepared to put the work in at an accredited institution, and refrain from plagiarism. I've got no respect for the title he claims to have earned. It fails any test of academic rigor.

From Juedes' site: "Note: The photo shows the entire "seminary," not just some kind of back house. The street address of Pike's Peak Seminary is 41 Lincoln. This picture is taken from Lincoln street. The other side of the house is perched on the side of a semi-wooded hill, and has no street access." The photo in NO WAY shows the "entire" seminary. This is a huge victorian home that could not be photographed in it's entirety from that angle. This photo only shows the back door of the house which leads to a kitchen just inside that latticework around the back door. I know because I've been there, in front and in back, inside, and out.

Gotta step in here. That IS the back of the house. How do I know? I've been INSIDE the house. And I believe that may be MY photo. The photo you posted looks very similar to one of many Geek and I took on our honeymoon in 1978 and gave copies to vpw afterwards. Until then, no pics ever showed up of the place at wayworld. vp said these were the first he'd had. On our honeymoon we found ourselves in the area and decided to visit the local library and look the place up. A very old librarian there knew of the school, told us where it was, and we took off to find it. Once we found it, we jumped out and began taking pictures and the owner of the home came out. At the time, the owner was a dentist who had bought the property several years earlier. He had heard the home once housed a seminary and invited us in for a look around. We went inside and got the grand tour. He showed us an old framed photo of the house that was made when the house was being built, back in horse and buggy days. The photo was taken from across the valley and had been handed down from owner to owner. He took us out on the veranda so we could see the fantastic view from the front porch of the valley and opposing mountainside. We enjoyed lemonade and cookies with the dentist and his wife, thanked them for their hospitality, snapped lots of pics, and went on our way. We and gave copies to VPW when we returned and told him about our visit with the current owner. When we told vpw about the old photo, "doc"vic told us he remembered the photo and even described to us where in the house it had stood when he was there, so I know this is the place where he "went" to "school." At any rate, we did see the front of the house, which is an old victorian with turrets and a beautiful wrap-around porch in front. The reason you might think that the pic shows the front of the house, is that the back of the house actually butts up to the street instead of the front. The reason, we are told, is because the house pre-exists the road. The original road was in front of the house. And it was the only house on that side of the hill at the time it was built, as seen in the old framed photo. Later on other people built houses in the area willy-nilly, and eventually necessitated cutting a road in behind the house instead of in front of it. Weird, I know, but that's the stow-ry.

And that website is as "cutting edge" as a dull butter knife. Any innie should know that any effort to address problems from within the organization is quickly neutered. As Albert Einstein said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it." For that very reason, efforts by Wayfers to reform the organization by cowtowing to its own rules will only lead them in circles inside a cage.

Still waiting as well. As of yet, no independent confirmation.

Well, ya know, at least they are honest. They flat out tell you (several times) they are "Followers of The Way International." That just about says it all, doesn't it? Following the organization itself is the emphasis, NOT followers of God, NOT followers of Jesus. They [blindly] follow an organization, and even when "trying" to challenge it, end up bending over for it. Same old same old

If GSC "stands up" for anything, it would be for no censorship. Review about GSC: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main/aboutus.htm Nothing and no one. Everyone here has an equal right to say what is on his or her mind. That is the beauty of free speech, which btw, most people used to twi's method of operation do not comprehend. Review about the forum: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main/forums.htm If you encounter opposition when you voice your opinion, enjoy it. Embrace it. If you want the freedom to speak your mind, you need to be willing to entertain the idea that the expression of your opinion just might find some opposition in the opinion of another person or group of people. If you can't stand the heat, then I have to ask: What are you doing in the kitchen? Put on an apron or grab a mop, or sit at the counter and have a cuppa joe. But don't bitch about the help. They've got their hands full and do a bangup job IMHO. And Belle-- Stop putting your gum under the counter!!!!

Very, VERY proud of you!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!

Any innies might be wise to note that when one's head is in the ostrich position, one's derriere is, um, how should I say... ah....

Wish I had the name and date, but I don't. Waiting for an innie to confirm this was a STS or Staff meeting?

Why, thank you, Jim!

Posted this on the other thread, thought it would bear repeating: And by the by.... If the person extending the so-called "apology" to me was PAID MINISTRY STAFF at the time of the offense, I would be asking specifically if they are specifically NOW acting in the capacity of an agent for The Way International in the act of the apology, or speaking solely for themselves. If they are acting in the capacity of an agent for The Way International in extending their apology, then TWI might be seen to be admitting guilt. And if they do, there's a legal door that just opened. So perhaps they had better get all their ducks in a row before they let people loose to apologize...

And by the by.... If the person extending the so-called "apology" to me was PAID MINISTRY STAFF at the time of the offense, I would be asking specifically if they are specifically NOW acting in the capacity of an agent for The Way International in the act of the apology, or speaking solely for themselves. If they are acting in the capacity of an agent for The Way International in extending their apology, then TWI might be seen to be admitting guilt. And if they do, there's a legal door that just opened. So perhaps they had better get all their ducks in a row before they let people loose to apologize...

Would I forgive an individual if they came to me personally and asked for it? I can only let you know that we will definitely come to an understanding. They will be made to understand exactly what they did very clearly and have another chance to reply to what I tell them. Then we will see if they are really apologizing. If they are sincere, then we will go from there. But the organization itself does not deserve forgiveness, nor should it continue. The only just thing would be for them to formally apologize, liquidate, and permanently close their doors.