Catcup

Why of course Hitler didn't seduce Germany, Ham. They all walked into it with their eyes wide open. Forget they were starving and broken from the defeat during WWI, being saddled with the entire war debt at Versailles, and were looking for a savior. Hitler didn't seduce Germany, Ham, he saved them. He rebuilt Germany's industry, and economy, provided jobs, restored their self esteem, and reasons to be proud again to be German. He trained the men to work hard and be strong. He praised and rewarded the fertility of the women, organized and disciplined the youngsters, and told them they were better than everyone else, they were genetically special, superior, and chosen. Therefore the world belonged to them. Why, Poland and the rest of Europe was as good as the promised land. They had the right and the power to go right out there and take what they wanted from the "lesser people," because it belonged to their superior race. He promised that what he was building for them would bring them to the pinnacle of existence and last a thousand years, if they would only allow him to guide the totality of their lives. When all that bad stuff began to happen, they could have easily stood up and confronted the Brownshirts and SS. Why, they could even have confronted Hitler himself without a single problem, right? Just speak up, right? Why, if they'd only wanted to, they could have elected a new leader and started a new government from scratch, easy as pie, dontcha know? ANd those damn Jews, they caused all the problems with their kvetching and moaning. They coulda left the Ghetto at any time they wanted to if they didn't like what happened during Krystalnacht... They musta stuck around because they enjoyed being rounded up, robbed, shoved into cattle cars and then burnt to a crisp. Better yet, they probably deserved it, dontcha think? Note the words from Hans Scholl, one of the very few people to confront Hitler, who lost his life doing so:

Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God. Also, God's grace, mercy, and salvation were taught to us from a very early age. So that was not news to us when we heard it in TWI. When we heard preaching in church about the trinity, we simply understood the trinity to be the three main subjects of our bible: God the Father, His Son Jesus, and Holy Spirit, which was interchangeably used for either God, or referred to characteristics of that interesting permanent change that the gift of salvation bestowed upon a person when they got born again. I suppose we were lucky to have just enough "churching" to hear about salvation and confess Jesus as our Lord, understand he was the Son of God who died for our sins, and God raised him from the dead so that we could have eternal life, and not enough "churching" to indoctrinate us on the trinity. Some time after being raised S.B., going through typical late 1960's teenage angst, drugs, and searching, and before getting into TWI, I was part of a charismatic movement. During that time, a woman taught me how to speak in tongues. I was growing, enjoying fruit of the spirit, a tight relationship with my Lord, getting answers to prayer, and I was reading my bible to learn about what exactly it all was. It seemed that finally, for once in my life, things were going well for me and I was on the right track. Then an introduction to TWI interrupted that journey. As far as the dead going straight to heaven when they die, I am no longer sure, but I don't really care, because sometimes I think it's just not that important, at least to me, at this point in time, to worry about what my status is after I die. I believe the most important thing is to take care of your "status" BEFORE you die, because afterwards, you can't change anything. If I am born again, which I believe I am, if God has it arranged so that I enter heaven immediately, that is fine with me. If my consciousness is in a state of suspended animation or unawareness until Christ comes back at a gathering together, that's fine, too. Whatever happens after I am dead, I have no control over. It's the moment by moment choices I make to live for Him today that matter the most in the long run, at least to me. But as a side note, I know plenty of great, and I do mean GREAT men and women of God (Rev. and Mrs. Billy Graham, for instance), who are convinced a believer goes straight to heaven at the moment of death. And NO leadership I EVER met in TWI can hold a candle to the genuine evangelistic and pastoral ministries these two had. I personally know very few people to have walked with such love and compassion in their lives in TWI, and NO ONE in TWI to have manifested their personal ministries on such a dynamic world-wide level and monumental impact, touching as many lives in such a powerfully positive way. I lived through over two decades of a cult which professed an elitist gnostic attitude, and tragically oppressed people and stole their lives with their "knowledge." So I do not believe searching for "an accurate knowledge" is the most important thing a believer should be doing. I think it's better to check the moral basics Jesus taught. God understands the confusion TWI interjected into each of our lives and the doubts that it caused, and he understands as humans we make mistakes and can at times be unintentionally and horribly deceived. So as far as I am concerned, He understands where I am and will meet me at my own level, and lead me where He wants me to go, as long as I do my best to keep my heart, my motivations, and my actions pure.

Absolutely. Happened even BEFORE I took the class. I had already signed up and was waiting (had to wait 9 months!) for the start up date. Jxhn Nxve, the person who witnessed to me, told me about bumping into someone on the street who had taken the class several years before, and "copped out." Nxve painted a pathetic and horrifying picture of the guy's current spiritual life-- he was "totally possessed," his life was compared to backed-up a sewer, and Jxhn told me that if I "copped out" after I took the PFAL class, it would be "exactly like a dog returning to its vomit." "Make up your mind before you take this thing whether you want to get involved. Once you have this knowledge, the adversary will want to kill you, and if you cop out, your life will be worse off than before." That was 1972.

Yeah. Actions speak louder than words.

I'm glad you had fun. But you assume too much. Many of us hung around so long because we were told and believed: --"There's nothing else out there. No one else has the Word like this" --"If you leave the ministry, you're a cop-out!" --"If you leave the ministry, you are leaving God!" --"The curses listed in the Old Testament are all a "cop-out" has to look forward to" Oh, and this one, shouted at me as my hand was on the doorknob and I was getting ready to leave, all the way back in 1973: -- "You'll never get your needs met anywhere else!" That caused me to turn around, sit back down, submit to several more hours of top-of-the-lung reproof for my engagement to a really good man my leadership did not approve of, so I broke that engagement, and settled in for another couple decades of eating bullsh!t. And after several of those decades, about 6 months or so before I actually left: "If you don't get a passion for the truth, your husband will die, you will be hobbled for life, and your daughter will be a stark, raving lunatic!" There were a whole lot more threats insinuated and leveled outright in between 1973 and 1997. So glad you enjoyed the ride. Good for you. Friggin spiritual Mafia

It's true, Ken was not Corps when they married. I do remember him being College Division. VP certainly had his "favorites" and exceptions to his rules. I know nothing about the man, so will say nothing.... you have the floor.....

Some stuff we'd never heard before, for sure. That is what piqued people's interest, and this "ear tickling" to lure people away from the truth with elitist "knowledge" (e.g. "The Greatest Secret in the World Today.... blah blah blah...) is what began to deceive people, cause them to feel that perhaps what they had was inadequate, and siphon them away from true movements of God. I believe since then, much of what VPW used to lure us away has been proven to be inaccurate, and even more, proven to be plagiarized. You certainly do know not. Many of these people were inspired before they came to TWI. Some were already happily involved in Christian groups. I know before I ever heard about TWI I was already speaking in tongues, searching the scriptures, enjoying a very close and spiritual walk with God, filled with fruit of the spirit. BEFORE I EVER MET VPW. I know I'm not the only one. I for one can testify, that the close, sweet relationship I had with my Lord before I came to TWI was usurped by TWI. I believe VPW's "believing and teaching" helped encourage fruit like this: After an initial warm and fuzzy couple of years, as "The Word," and "Our Father in The Word" and Way "Doctrine, Reproof, and Correction" edged out the Spirit of God and God's true place in my life and heart, the true fruit of the spirit was slowly and incrementally replaced with emptiness. In the Corps I once mentioned to someone that I seemed to have had more joy in my life in my early Christian years before TWI and thought I enjoyed a closer walk with my Lord back then than I currently did. I was told that what I had back then was never a true relationship with God, but a counterfeit, and the real walk with God isn't like that. Yeah, right. Buncha Joy Thieves. For maybe a New York second....

What was really shameful is the way people were treated who chose not to get married in the Corps weddings, and the way people were treated who chose to marry someone outside the Corps "household." These folks were regularly reproved publicly and privately, and often snubbed by leadership and their Corps brothers and sisters. Very stupid and hurtful treatment. VPW also was ticked at Corps for getting married after they divorced. One 6th Corps woman, Mxchelle Molxneux, got engaged to Gxry Curtis, 1st Corps, after his divorce from his first wife. One day VPW roundly reproved the both of them in front of our entire Corps for their engagement. They married anyway. Don't know what ever happened with them after they left TWI, but I hope they are still happily together despite it all. There was one good-lookin' fella in my Corps who announced his engagement to a non-Corps woman. One of his Corps "confronted" him for not looking for a spouse first among the "bounty" of singles in the Corps. She even proudly boasted of confronting him about it. The poor guy ended up dumping his fiance and marrying the person who confronted him! Wonder what happened to that one...

My initials are MN. Make sure you click on the name Catcup above the blinking kitty icon. It should make a drop down menu appear. If you click on the icon, you get my profile, not the drop down menu. Are you Armenian?

Yep, the Gluckins, Sudduths, & Belts. I thought it was "special" that they let two 6th Corps folk, who had not yet graduated, get married in the middle of training, usually a "no-no." That was Mark Glxckin to Sara, and Meg Wxtson to John Kxsh. I didn't remember 15 couples, though, but I wasn't at HQ and you were, so I trust your bemembery better. Maybe they had the reception areas broken up into groups of 4 our 5. Maybe that's why I remember that number for some reason. I know Donna came to us using her experience to sell us on the group weeding thing. Yep, I forgot David. He and Shermaine were one of the three originals along with me & Geek, and the Prxce-Wilsxn matchup. By golly, you are right, it WAS the Harrisons. I remeber it was Theresa Doering, but wrongly had her matched up with Al. And yes, they handled themselves really well, and to thunderous applause as I remember. I was so proud of them for standing up to VP. Rare, indeed. Big Holy Brass Ones. Was proud of them then, even more proud of them today. Hope they are doing well.

You can sell all of the books in one big lot on eBay and get top dollar for that. The more in the lot, the merrier. Not everyone who buys these books, believes what is written in these books. Some are simply collectors of books in general, or religious books in particular, or cult books specifically. Some are purchased and used by psychology departments in Universities, or purchased and used by cult recovery organizations, so I wouldn't feel bad about making a buck off of them. You might very well be contributing to the education and/or recovery of someone.

Ariel-- If you click on a poster's name, a drop down menu will appear and you can then select "send message."

Yep, I remember Vince Finnegan was like the only person in TWI who had ever been a student at the old College of Emporia. And yes, the signatures were in the dome of Anderson Library, on the wall there.

In the very top of the Anderson Library was an area that all the College of Emporia alumni signed. After TWI took the campus over, the corps continued the tradition. I remember at one point during my in residence training at WCE, a group of College of Emporia alumni visited, toured the campus, and made sure to visit their signatures in the library.

Congrats on your 29th!-- Paul, is that you? You're lucky to NOT have been in that circus. Miceta readya!

Thanks! The 6th Corps was the first "mass" Corps wedding, July 26, 1978. However the Martindale wedding was probably the first "multiple" wedding. I think there were four or five Corps couples that VP married at the same time, done at HQ, in 1976. I am pretty sure that Jxhn and Mxg Kxsh were one of the couples in that ceremony with the Martindales. Don't know who the others were. So they were the prototype. I remember Donna coming to one of our early planning meetings and bringing her wedding photos for us to look at, to help convince us that a group wedding wasn't so bad. After all, we were only going to have only three (THREE) couples, and they had more, and it was still very intimate. After all, it's your faithful Corps brothers and sisters you're getting married with. I think they were married under the apple trees, and the reception looked like it was in front of Ye Olde Snack Shoppe. What our event became was a far cry from what she represented to us.

Ariel-- Forgive me if I cannot remember exactly. I do remember hitching back to WCof E with a sweet gal from somewhere we had been (Texas? HQ? I can't recall). I think I remember us singing "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus" to someone who was giving us a ride in a sports car. As I remember, the guy was sloshed, driving drunk and fast, and I was actually terrified, while trying to keep my cool. I think he was a pro baseball player for the KC Royals, wasn't he? Can't remember his name. But I can't remember who you are for the life of me-- I can't picture you yet, darn it. Groucho-- While I agree that VP's foundation was built upon sand, I do believe originally, there was a genuine work of God among those fresh, young people who had a heart to serve. And that move was pure. However, I do not credit VP with the work. I believe Sunesis and others have mentioned this concept of VP capitalizing on what was going on in the late sixties. I credit VP with recognizing the move of God, and then preying upon that move of God, derailing and siphoning off a good deal of God's truly inspired people. VP allowed them to work their ministries and attract good hearted truth seekers who wanted to serve God, while slowly edging himself in as the "man of God." VP eventually took over the place in people's hearts that should be reserved for God alone, incrementally dethroned God from the work, stole the allegience of God's people, and the corruption of the movement, the quenching of the the move of the Spirit of God among His people, and rape of God's flock began.

Craig was a great one to destroy that kind of inspiration and inspired music. I will never forget the time in the top floor of Wierwille library when he did that to one of my wonderful Corps brothers, Jimmy Cxrrol. Jimmy was a great acoustical guitarist with a gift for songwriting. Jimmy had written a song which expressed thankfulness to Jesus as his Lord. He was in the middle of the debut of this awesome song which we were all enjoying, when Craig stopped him in the middle of it and tore him apart for a good half hour in front of us, because he objected to the lyrics. What an @sshole. It was that kind of idiotic crap that killed the inspiration and musicality inherent in our musicians. Craig, and those who were in position to level the most criticism against the musicians, of course, had NO MUSICAL TRAINING WHATSOEVER, and couldn't carry a tune in a bucket or write a frikin limeric, much less an inspired work of music. No wonder many grew tired, and if their flame of inspiration was not totally quenched, packed up their guitars and left.

JN & PDSTRO made great music in my opinion, capturing the true heart of a genuine believer who loved God, loved his brothers and sisters in Christ, and truly desired to selflessly serve the body of Christ. They inspired many people to love and to serve God, and epitomized the hopes and desires of the basic believer, who with joy, was discovering his identity in Christ. TWI did a super job of squelching love, distorting the identity of the individual believer and his relationship with the true God, and extinguishing the fire to serve. They replaced it with the robotic, mechanical, commercialized, homogenized, corrupted, mindless drivel that you see today. There is no comparison between those early folks and the heartless, empty trash on stage at the WOW Auditorium today.

There are book collectors on eBay that are willing to pay big bucks for those titles.

VP was really mad at the rehearsal when he saw how hot it was going to be. He wanted to change it, but some couples complained that it would have made some guests either miss the wedding, or their flights home afterward. After having to stand there and perform all those weddings in the hot sun and having to revive several grooms after they fainted, yeah, he made sure to "fix" that the next time around.

Reasons I heard VPW give for getting married in The Corps Weddings: One of the things VPW always complained about to the Corps, was how the parents of the bride, usually "unbelievers," and especially the mother, tried to control the wedding of their Wayfer kid, especially if they were people of wealth. Money was used to manipulate the "innie." The bride's parents customarily pay for the wedding, and therefore, said VP, they would use that fact to manipulate the bride in order to control her, control the event, and get their own way. Apparently there were lots of instances that got under VPWs skin, where a resentful parent would snub the Wayfolk or clergy during the event in some kind of way. In his mind, if TWI controlled the wedding, they could marginalize the unbelievers. VPW frequently publicly stated that many weddings were simply "egotistical displays of selfishness" on the part of those being married and their families, and were "a disgrace to God." If you were really a spiritual man or woman, you understood that TWI was more important than your family ties, and would not allow yourself to be manipulated by your family. And you should rightly want to celebrate such a momentous event in your life with those who mean the most to you: Your brothers and sisters in Christ, who are committed to serve like you are. He also complained about having to schedule one wedding right after another for 8 to 10 weeks after Corps graduation and it was more considerate of him as a clergyman to allow him to do them all at one time. In a nutshell, all that was his rationale for doing a huge group wedding: To see to it that he and the mucky-mucks were properly recognized according to Way custom, remove any opportunity for an "unbeliever" to "disrespect" him or any other TWI clergy, remove any opportunity for an "unbeliever" to hold influence over or manipulate a wayfer, and for his own person convenience, of course.

Thanks, ex Wedding from hell is my opinion, too. Maybe one day we will renew our vows and have a real ceremony.

Oh-- forgot to tell you-- When I turned to my maid of honor to get my husband's ring during the ceremony, she nervously whispered, "I don't have the ring. I lost the ring." I faked putting the ring on my husband's finger, while telling him she lost the ring. He grinned through the whole thing. We had a photo scheduled to be shot with both of our hands across a bible. He put his brother's class ring on backwards and it looked like his wedding ring. We never found the ring. He went back a month or so later with a metal detector to try to find the ring, with no luck. The only thing we can figure out is she must have dropped it while walking across the bridge and it rolled into the pond.

On July 26 we will be celebrating our 29th anniversary, the anniversary of a 6th Corps wedding I would rather forget. Although I loved my spouse, I hated my wedding. When we began planning it, there were only two other engaged coupes in the 6th Corps who wanted VP to marry them some time after graduation. Then VP decided he didn't want to do three weddings in a row, and told us we should all get married in the same ceremony. Although I wasn't thrilled about having to plan our day along with two other couples and the inevitable compromises that would be involved, we wanted VP to do the wedding, and that was the only way he would do it. So we agreed. I understood there would be three, THREE couples. However, as we began planning, it seemed like there was an avalanche of engagements in the Corps and they all wanted the same thing: VP to do the ceremony. So our once-small, intimate ceremony quickly evolved into a freaking circus. At about the same time I was deciding perhaps I would rather opt for a later private ceremony with some other clergy, VPW started making noises about how "selfish" it was to tie up a clergyman's schedule with all these separate wedding dates, and how "selfish" and "egotistical" it was to want to sequester yourself with your unbelieving family members and not want to celebrate your special day with 350 of your closest friends and staff at The Way C. of E. I then felt trapped into the huge group ceremony. We had to vote on every freaking thing. Trying to plan a wedding by committee was ridiculous and just plain stupid. We had several seemingly endless meetings arguing over and thrashing out the details of an event that got bigger and more unmanageable week by week. The nightmare began when in February we were planning a July wedding. Control freaks abounded who wanted to coordinate the look of the entire affair. There were a few girls who actually wanted us to coordinate the style of our wedding gowns-- the same wedding gowns for the brides and the same gowns for the bridesmaids! Several of us objected because we had ALREADY purchased our wedding gowns. Some of us had been planning on an indoor wedding when choosing our gowns, and had long sleeves. Not to mention, what we decided to wear on our own wedding day was our own business and should be no one else's decision. Thankfully that got knocked down, but it was decided that since many were on a budget, the grooms and best men would not be wearing tuxedos, but the same damn stupid navy blue suit. It was then up for discussion how many guests we could invite, how many bridesmaids a person could have, and what color they should wear. Again, there were those who wanted all the bridesmaids to wear the same damn dress. That was voted down, but the majority decided on powder blue as the color. We had the same discussions regarding flowers. The same damn girls wanted the brides' bouquets to all be the same, likewise the bridesmaids would all carry the same bouquets, and the men the same boutinier. Since I was carrying red roses, I wanted my finace to wear a red rosebud. I was shouted down on that one, because, didn't I know, VPW is the ONLY person who is EVER allowed to wear a RED rose ANYWHERE at ANYTIME! So, while I carried red roses, my husband had to wear white. Thankfully, at least the brides could choose the other flowers for themselves and their wedding party. It was then decided the ceremony would be outdoors by the pond at 10:30 in the morning. I reminded everyone that 10:30 a.m. in July in Kansas was going to be too hot, especially for those of us with long-sleeved gowns, and we should do an evening ceremony or begin in the early morning. At the time there was little or no shade in that area being discussed for the ceremony. I was shouted down on that one really quick. It then was suggested that those of us who had purchased long-sleeved gowns (forget the fact that we were the first ones in the group, and had purchased our gowns a long time ago) should return our gowns and choose new ones with short sleeves. That was impractical or impossible for many of us who had bought gowns out of town during Christmas break in other areas of the country. So it was decided the brides could choose their own gowns. But that 10:30 am time slot came back to haunt us. Then, the cake. We were told the college was going to provide one big cake and punch for everyone. Those of us who were in on it in the beginning had already put money down on our own private wedding cakes. Enough of us raised a fuss that it was decided that we could each have our own cake if we wanted, but there would be one big one for those who could not afford a separate cake. It was decided that each wedding party would have it's own table outdoors, and if you had a cake, you could have it set up on the table. But if you wanted punch, you had to come inside the Wierwille library for it because it would be set up next to the big communal wedding cake, and Way Productions would be providing the music at the reception. I simply instructed my parents to bring their own punch bowl and ingredients, which they did. Then we discussed music. No Wagner. The traditional Wedding March was originally a funeral dirge, don't you know. I didn't care, but I know a couple of other brides, who all their lives had looked forward to stepping down the aisle to that piece, were really disappointed. A few dropped out at that point, but by then we had over 15 or 16 couples and the ranks seemed to be rapidly swelling by the week as couples were trying to squeeze in at the last minute. Any newcomers had to buy into anything we had already decided on. Then at another meeting, we discussed photography. I had already visited a professional studio in the area and picked out a package, but had not yet put money down. We were flat out told there would be no professional photographers from town allowed on the campus. They didn't want unbelievers wandering around the campus taking photographs. (Did they forget about all the "unbeliever" wedding guests with cameras?) We had several "professional" photographers on campus and we could use their services. --Actually, because there were so many couples and not enough photographers, the photographers were assigned to divide their time between shooting several different couples each on that day. At the wedding rehearsal the day before, it was hot as hell and VP wanted to change the time of the wedding to earlier in the day. Of course there were objections from couples who had guests who would miss the wedding if the time was changed, so we were locked into a ceremony in the blazing hot Kansas sun. VP was ticked, and wanted to know who the hell decided on that stupid time frame. I had tried to tell them... The next day, it was pushing 90 degrees by 9:00 a.m. The seating arrangement for the guests was interesting. The only shady spots in the entire area were set up for the Wilsxn wedding and the Mirxbito wedding, weddings which included the 6th Corps coordinators, of course. And there was another party who were in partial shade, and that area, again, was reserved for a higher mucky-muck. Everyone else was baking in the sun. As the ceremony began, the heat increased, the sweat poured as people silently prayed for even the slightest breeze in vain, and grooms began to faint and fall at the feet of their horrified brides. I believe Txm Plain was one of them, and Nik Maxsxn. By the time the ceremony was over and the reception began, my elderly grandparents were sweltering in the sun and beginning to look ill. We went to our table near the pines next to UH hall, and found there were NO CHAIRS for my elderly guests to sit in. My new husband had to leave my side to round up seating for my grandparents, while we all stood around in the hot sun. We then cut my cake, drank a toast, and waited for the the photographer to get to us to take photographs, but by then I could tell the heat was taking a toll on my grandparents. I made a decision. I didn't give a damn. I picked up my wedding party and moved the entire thing, cake, punch, gifts, and all, down into the basement of the Campus Center Snack Shop area where I knew there were plenty of chairs and air conditioning. To hell with the fxcking community party. We had our own private reception in the coolness of the snack shop, opened gifts, shared memories, ate cake and drank punch down there. No Way Productions crappy music, but no dance with my father, either. After my husband and I left, my maid of honor and my family cleaned up our private "reception" and made sure we left no mess behind, although somehow the punch bowl never made it back to my parents. Oh, well. After the wedding, we waited, and waited for our photographs to be delivered. No photos. It seemed like everyone who got married that summer had their pics but us. I made countless unanswered phone calls to Mxrk Rxnge, the photography coordinator, to find out what happened to my photos. After our wedding in July, I think it was maybe Christmas, or even the next January before I got even an explanation from anyone about what had happened. It was insinuated that I should be "thankful" I got ANY photographs, as there were countless problems among the photographers, including some who didn't even remember to put film in their cameras. The "professional" photographer who was assigned to take our photos was assigned to split his time between us and a wedding party who was in the shade. And he forgot to set his camera exposure properly when he was switching back and forth between their party in the shade, and our party in the sun. Consequently, he horribly overexposed our photographs and they had to go through special processing to try to fix them. Unfortunately there was no fixing them. Most of our photographs were ruined. The photograph of my Dad walking me down the aisle, I had to throw away. My dress was GREEN, there were strange shadows and smears across our faces. I still get angry when I think about how we, and especially our guests, were NOT cared for properly. I have one photograph of my wedding that I treasure. It was snapped by my sister, just before my husband and I kissed. Why would anyone in later Corps, knowing what a joke the group weddings were, want to get married that way, you may ask? Many of you will remember that it quickly became verbotten to NOT get married in the Corps Weddings, and you were on VPW's short $h!t list if you did otherwise. I remember VPW discussing it frequently, at every Corps Week, publicly naming and denigrating the new couples who "egotistically" failed to get married in the most recent Corps Weddings, and "selfishly" tied up clergy schedules and lavishly spent money on private weddings and receptions to satisfy their own egoes and their unbelieiving families. Several years later, I believe it was a couple in the 6th Corps (I believe it was the Wajnbergs), who got married outside the Corps Weddings, who stood up at an open mic one Corps Week after yet another one of VPW's public demeaning tirades against people who refused to get married at the Corps Weddings. They stood up to VPW and bravely defended themselves in public. The weddings had become too big and expensive an event, and this couple was so financially strapped that they couldn't afford it,. They were just going to go to a justice of the peace, and when their Corps friends found out, they pooled funds and volunteered materials and work in order to put their wedding on in somebody's basement. This couple said there was nothing selfish about it, and had their friends not selflessly done even that for them, they couldn't have afforded to do anything but go to a justice of the peace. VPW then changed his tune, because they rightfully embarassed the sh!t out of him in public and he could no longer justify his position. I was proud of them for doing it.