Catcup

Thank you all so much! Wordwolf, you are so helpful! And thank you, DWBH. Finally finished what TWI kept me from achieving. Kitten plans on studying cybersecurity.

Hi folks, it's been a day or two. Does anyone know where I can read a copy of the Waydale article I wrote called Destruction of Self? Am doing some writing on the subject, and wanted to re-read this article but can no longer find it on this site. Anyhoo, I am happily working in higher education, finished my MSHE a while back at Drexel University. Research Geek is still researching and is still a (lovable) Geek. Kittencup will be at Harvard next May. Mom is still doing well and will see her 92nd birthday on Sunday, celebrated with Kittencup who shares the same birthdate. All send their best. I hope this note finds all of you well and happy! =-^._.^=-

For sure, Twinky. So good to see/read you all. Thanks for your input.

Hi Groucho and Twink! Yeah the same old story of TWI. Mother in law, WayBrother, Husband, and one other brother all were in TWI. Other brother left first, but all trusted WayBrother. I agree that this matter should have been properly sorted legally from the beginning, but as I said, I always tried to stay out of family financial/inheritance matters. And now, as Twinky pointed out, it's likely going to be significantly nibbled away by legal fees unless WayBrother grows a conscience. Not holding my breath on that one. And yes, WayBrother will have a difficult time explaining away the years he did comply with his Mother's wishes and distributed yearly farm profits. Have not heard back yet from Sister in Law. She is likely stunned, because it is totally out of character for me to open up to this family about what went on inside TWI. As a matter of principle and out of respect for family harmony I kept it to myself and simply withdrew from activities I knew would bring me into contact with WayBrother and his kids. But she asked. So, this is likely all I will contribute to their personal matter. I will back off, retreat to my own business and watch what happens with theirs. It's a shame how the ramifications of TWI involvement continue to ravage the family long after you break your own ties with the organization.

IT's been a while. After spending several years helping out at WayDale and Greasespotcafe, it was time for me to move on and begin piecing my own life back together. I finished my degree, moved to another state to be closer to family, walked right into my dream job at a wonderful college, and have begun my graduate program. Everything was humming along quite nicely until I got an email from my sister in law this afternoon and my world came to a screeching halt. I knew something was in the works a while back because I got an email from my sister in law regarding building consensus among the siblings on distributing the inheritance. I have tried to stay out of this decision because it is their family business, not mine. You see, Mother in law owned a goodly amount of valuable farmland that she did not want to end up in probate. So, long before she went into assisted living, she got the kids together for a discussion. She told them she was putting the property all in WayBrother's name for safekeeping. The land would continue to be leased to the farmer and profits would be divided yearly between the siblings. When she passed away, the land was to be equally divided among them. So Mother lives a long and happy life, spending the last few years in assisted living before passing away. The inheritance is preserved. Because of the recession, the decision was made to continue leasing the farm land. As agreed, profits from the harvest were split yearly among the children. This process went on for 5 or 6 years. Even though we had long ago left TWI, we and the rest of the family had confidence that when the time came, "WayBrother would do the right thing". Time goes on, property values increase, and the two older sisters, one retired and one about to, want to cash out and divide the propery. Sister number one approaches us to ask if we are ok with it. Husband says yeah. She gets the same answer from everyone else, then approaches Waybrother. WayBrother suddenly gets a case of "Mom changed her mind later on" and is keeping the entire 54 acres of valuable Ohio farmland for himself. Y'all do the math on that one yourself. After we left the ministry, I never talked to that family about why or what happened to us. I did not want to be seen as sowing division between blood relatives. I'm not their blood. I was staying out of that one. And then I got this email today. And she asked me about WayBrother's behavior. Was this something that The Way taught him? She went and did it. She wanted to know. She asked the question. So I had to answer. Please excuse any typos, because I'm trying to do this on a phone. But below is my response to her question: "Dear (Sister in law) I am not aware of all that has gone on between you, (my husband), and WayBrother. However, I do have nearly 30 years experience inside The Way International, and most of it at a higher leadership capacity than WayBrother has ever held. Heretofore I have stayed out of this issue of the inheritance because it is your family matter. However, in your email to me, you did ask if WayBrother's behaviour was something taught by The Way. In The Way International, we were taught that the scripture says we were to "be especially good unto the household of faith". We were also taught that the scriptural definition of "household" ONLY included active faithful believers associated with The Way International--no one else. Those who had once been "faithful believers" but who had "walked away from the household" or had been kicked out were to be "marked and avoided". You were to shun these people. Not eat with them, fellowship with them, or talk with them. You were to cut them off from any access to you. They had known the truth and chose to walk away from it. They are worse than scum and had "spit in God's face". Years ago, working as a doula before I left The Way International, I was witness first-hand to this doctrine in practice. I especially saw it in use by a well-known obstetrician in The Way who gave what, from my professional training, I knew was a very unnecessarily rough exam to an ex-Way believer in transitional labor. When the woman cried out in pain, the doctor exclaimed "Remember, I only have to be ESPECIALLY good the THE HOUSEHOLD!" I will never forget how this doctor treated this poor woman during one of the most vulnerable and painful experiences a woman can undergo. At a time when she should have been given physical and psychological support. I will say it: In my opinion this patient was physically and emotionally abused in my presence. The word "household" only applied to active members and was used against ex members in a cruel fashion, insinuating that they were cut out of The Heavenly Father's favor. Over the years (husband) and I felt the organization had changed it's basic nature and had abandoned it's original calling. As leaders, we were increasingly being asked to do things to people we could no longer do. In February of 1997 after a fellowship leader openly undercut my authority with my own daughter, I decided to leave The Way International. Because (husband) and I were were largely well known and well respected among the believers, the ministry went on a smear campaign of our reputations, and told people we were kicked out ( when actually WE left THEM), and they "marked and avoided" us. Leadership representing The Way International called my parents, who were active in their local fellowship. They demanded my father throw my sister (who had also left The Way) out of his house. My Dad told the guy "I crawled across Europe on my belly to make sure I could have a home and a family to come back to, and I'll be damned if I will let you tell me what to do!" I was never prouder of my Dad. But they broke his heart. He, too, had spent neatly thirty years in the ministry as well. The next time (husband), (daughter), and I attended the (Family) Hike, it was very uncomfortable and awkward for me. Then in one family photograph, WayBrother shooed (daughter) out of the picture, saying, "GET OUT--HOUSEHOLD ONLY! HOUSEHOLD ONLY!" Of course, it was a picture of his family, but there was no mistaking the double intendre. It cut like a knife. It was meant to. Although I used to love those hikes, I have never been back since. THAT IS WHY. (Husband) also got a "birthday" card from (WayBrother that year basically telling him that how screwed up he was and he needed to "come back to The Word". (WayBrother) also had the gall to claim in that "birthday" card that we would not even have had our daughter except THEY prayed for it to happen. You know, the teaching was at that time, "if you leave the ministry, you HATE your children." I have since been quite distant from family reunion activities because I refuse to subject myself to that kind of abuse. The teachings of The Way International continue to twist and turn based on the whims of upper leadership and their coffers. The Way International suffered a loss of about 2/3 of it's participants (and funding base) after Paul & Fern Allen's lawsuit against The Way International, Craig Martindale, and Rosalie Rivenbark. It became common knowledge that Martindale, then the president of TWI, was abusing his authority and position to sexually subjugate women, while Rivenbark et al looked the other way. The Way settled out of court. Martindale lost his job because of it. Rivenbark is now in charge. Nothing has really changed. It's business as usual. BTW I was one of many witnesses in the lawsuit. But that is all I can say. In the more recent past, The Way has eased up a bit on harassing family members who leave. Now they want to act like everything is fine and nothing ever happened. Institutional Psychology would say that the institution of The Way itself is pathological, behaving like an abusive spouse. Beat the hell out of you, then behave as if nothing ever happened. There is no fixing this organization. It should be relegated to the scrap heap of dead or dying pseudo-religions supported by a corrupt structure. But as for what The Way taught WayBrother, it taught him very well to be loyal ONLY to "the ministry that taught you The Word". It taught him that his REAL family is "the household of faith" and that this household is made up ONLY of faithful, active believers of The Way International. I know that's where his loyalties lie because I was taught the same thing by the same people in the same ministry. I just saw how toxic it was and got out. Now I just live with the fact and the consequences of having dedicated my strength, my youth, my resources, and most of my income to an organization that gut-stripped my family. But I will not be fooled by them again, so help me God. -=^._.^=-C[_]

Apparently FDR kept several mistresses in addition to his wife, who had her own dalliances. They all knew about and even accepted each other. Then FDR brought his fifth cousin into the mix. She was "groomed," taken with him, and was under the impression she was his only "other". Then she was devastated to find out she was just one of several, and was encouraged to accept her situation. Tru story. She never married. Lived to be 100. After her death, a box of letters found under her bed confirmed the relationship. Movie is based on those letters.

Are you kidding me, Rivenbark prides herself on NOT having a computer? What an artifact. A Neanderthal, really. No one will drag her kicking and screaming into the 21st century, eh? Sad.

I slink in and slink back out occasionally. In Twi in 1972. Left Twi in 1997. "Thrown out" actually AFTER i left. Found Waydale shortly after I left,which was key to my recovery. Came to GSC after Waydale shut down and hung around until I needed to move on. Am very happy with my life now and glad to be done with TWI. Feel sorry for thise still stuck there and stuck in between. Come here once in a great while to make a comment and say hi. HI! -=^._.^=- C[_]

This movie made me think about VPW, LCM, and how they used women. Also how other women who bought into that lifestyle groomed unsuspecting innocents who were sucked in, disillusioned, and finally accepted their situation. Interesting.

Too many to count. But the one that comes to mind at the moment is from Emogene Allen at our first Departmental Staff Meeting in The Way International Bookstore in October 1982: "I thought this year I got the cream of the crop, but now I know I got the scum from the crick!"

Oh fer cryion' out loud I just noticed I've replied to a jack-o-lantern who first posted in 2009 and abandoned his troll squat. lol!

OFCOL. YOU are the one who brought him up, basically dared anyone to knock the chip off your shoulder about "aggressively" defending him, and now you wanna backpedal? If he does come here and read what you started about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he clocked you one himself. I repsonded to your opening post without first reading the rest of what, 17 pages of discourse now? This should be entertaining, at least.

You probably already know who I am. If not, you ought to be smart enough to figure it out. Ooooh... should I stick around for the "reveal"? Why should I care? Hmmm. Odd. So I respectfully submit the question, Why would we want to? Most new folk come here seeking information, not to set themselves up for fifty questions and a guessing game. You say that the feelings and opinions presented here are "not favorable" to "the word in general". Well, again, that's your opinion to which you are entitled. Mine is that you're wrong on that count, but of course I am entitled to my opinion as well. I just think maybe what YOU believe is "the word" and what folks here believe is "the word" is not exactly the same. Well, none of us have cornered the market on truth, so who is to say what the word is. But then again, you probably deep down in your heart don't really believe that-- hence your belief that folks here who do not believe the same things you do, in general do not favor "the word". Is that respectful enough for you? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where you are going with this. You believe what goes on here is "gossip" and is not credible. Yeah, well, you are entitled to your opinion. WHAT exactly doesn't fly in court? Are we in court now? "hereay" (I think you really meant "hearsay"--typo forgiven) of course is not admissible in a court of law. This of course is an open forum, and not a court of law. However, many of the stories related here about negative experiences with The Way and their legal representatives are in fact first hand witness from people who suffered wrongdoing. And--speaking of what is and is not accepted in a court of law-- since you brought it up-- many of the first hand accounts that have been discussed on this website and others, at which you and perhaps people you defend take umbrage, were actually ADMITTED in a court of law, and SUCCESSFULLY so, I might add. Other people lined up to give first hand testimony of abuse suffered at the hands of TWI and its legally designated "ministers" and representatives, and were ready to be deposed for those testimonies. This so frightened TWI and their legally designated "ministers" and representatives that they settled out of court rather than have these specific facts come to light in a court of law. OK....you've come here to "set us straight", eh? On Victor? He may very well be. I don't know. But why does he need defending? And why do you feel the need to defend him? If he doesn't think it's important enough to come here to "defend" himself (against what, heaven knows), then why is it so important for you to aggressively) do it? For someone who insists on others to be "respectful" you sure are dong a lot of posturing and insinuating --no, threatening violence against people who might vastly differ from your opinion of your friend. OK, what if I hold what you consider a false, quite negative opinion of your friend. Figure out who I am. Come find me, and you may find more than you bargained for. I simply do not believe your stated intentions. That's more respectable than calling you an outright liar, right? Pardon me if I don't believe you are here for anything other than stirring up $I-I i T.... to muddy the waters. JMHO to which I am entitled.

Just think it's really interesting that I never had a suicidal thought in my head until AFTER I met people from TWI who totally destroyed my concept of self. Within a year I was so confused and depressed I thought about riding my bicycle off the Henderson bridge and making it look like an accident. When I disclosed how confused and distressed I was to my overseers they got mad at me for not coming to them --Which confused me further, since I had just come to them! The only thing that brought me back from the brink was I began to go running on a regular basis. It cleared my head enough to blow out any thought of suicide. However, I unfortunately never got my head clear enough to leave TWI for several decades. Was too afraid I'd disappoint God. Till I figued out they had led me AWAY from God and not TO Him.

...and remember: http://www.zazzle.com/a_mans_calculator_t_shirt-235472602131619438

I feel your pain. http://www.zazzle.com/i_was_told_there_would_be_no_math_involved_tshirt-235000184133653891

Will do.

To resnip the quote: I don't think VP was an evil man. I think he did evil things. I think he was part of an entire generation of men who thought women existed for their pleasure. Lot of men who were bosses who hired secretaries for something other than just stenography. Did Esther sleep her way to the top? Some would think so. I think VP really WAS called of God to teach his word. Around age 50 his farm began to host many young women at a time. He's not supposed to notice? An "entire generation"? This generation of which you speak is part of what for good reason has been called "The Greatest Generation." My parents are of that generation, and of VPs "generation". VP is simply proof that not everyone in that generation was "Great". However, not everyone of that generation objectified women, cheated on their wives, or slept their way to the top. My Dad and Mom have been faithfully married to each other for over sixty years, raised three good kids, and have four good grandkids and their first great grandchild. My Dad, unlike VP, served valiantly in WWII, and crawled across Europe on his belly to guarantee the freedom you've enjoyed in your own generation. He has lived an honest life, and gave an honest day's work for an honest day's pay to the same corporation for over thirty years. So did my Mom. She probably won "employee of the month" for a whole year's worth of months over the span of her service. And she did it honestly without "sleeping her way to the top" or kissing anyone's arse. And for that matter, the same could be said of every one of my aunts and uncles. Not a bad egg in the bunch. Don't excuse the behavior of one bad person by soiling the entire generation with the same filth. And BTW you can "notice" and even "appreciate" a young woman without believing you have the right to help yourself to her.

Goodbye? Hellisaino goodbye. The new website might just be his worst nightmare...

So what would I have done differently? In 1972 when my boyfriend did not want to accept his mother's invitation to us to visit her church, I wish I woud have just let it go and not pressed him for us to go just to please her...

I know of quite a few folks who have left TWI but still believe a variety of things they learned there. Rather an ecclectic sort, though, syncretic, really. We simply agree to disagree, and we respect the other's rights to their own beliefs. Like regular old catholic and protestant friends from the neighborhood where I grew up. We didn't care what the other person believed about God or where they did or did not worship. We just enjoyed hanging out with one another and playing Kick the Can till the street lights came on :)

Yes, even if you can't talk about it, it is enough to climb onto a stool in the cafe, share a cuppa java, and know that the unspoken is understood. I have not been here often for the past several years, but I've been a "regular" since Waydale, and a 'spotter since it closed. I had to move on from GSC after a bit in order to begin my new life. I come back occasionally for a C[_] and a @, and don't say much, but observe. It has been nice to see that the healing continues. Folks like ExTWI and Pawtucket have given us a forum to expose what happened to us, discuss, learn to debate, to think on our own, to speak up and speak out, and to reclaim lives that were stolen from us. It's not easy to manage this kind of establishment. It is not without risk-- legal, financial, social, political, and emotional-- but ExTWI and Pawtucket both took it on, because they recognized a huge need. But doing this extracts a price from you, and eventually you have to walk away from it so you can do other things. ExTWI had to move on in order to reclaim his life. Now, Paw needs to hang up his apron so he can go fishing and enjoy the sunshine as well. When ExTWI closed his door, Paw opened his. So now, when Paw needs to retire, someone else, I am sure, will step up and fill this need. You know who you are. Get going. You can do it. As long as TWI exists, they will continue to generate damage that needs to be exposed and healed. Paw is handing off the baton. Grab it and run.

Quite alright, cman. I do appreciate your concern, though, and your input.

I appreciate your response, but I don't give a rat's patootie about what my innie family thinks. It's about what they do whenever I have given them access to me. They have repeatedly hurt me and my daughter-- so we simply refuse to give them access to do so anymore. There is something sick about continually opening your heart to people who stab it if they see the opportunity. It's the same kind of sick people suffer from who repeatedly return to abusive spouses believing they will change. I refuse to do that. It is not mentally healthy. As far as TWI, I care even less about what they think. I simply have no desire to visit a place that holds so many bad memories. I have no need to revisit such a place. I have moved on from those people and that place to a new life, one so much more fulfilling and satisfying than I ever enjoyed there. I have so much more in my life now than I ever had then. There simply are more reasons to move forward and leave them behind, than to look back.

LOL! I might react in a totally different manner had recognitions and apologies been made. But they haven't. So as far as I am concerned, it is their loss. I do interact with them in a limited fashion-- at family reunions, on neutral territory. There, we are also seeing family who are not in TWI, who have not behaved in such a manner toward us. Hell, I'm willing to forgive my family if they simply acknowleged to me what they did, and that it was wrong and hurtful. But they never do. They simply want to behave as if nothing ever happened. Which to me, means nothing was ever learned. So, if I give them the unlimited access to my heart they had in the past, I am the one being foolishly open to being hurt again. That I will not do. I do appreciate the opinions of my fellow 'spotters. The poll results reflect what few innies will admit: the folks here are reasonable people who are not "disgruntled former followers", but people who recognize how toxic The Way International is, and the complications that can result from their involvment in your family. Thank you for all of your responses.