leafytwiglet

((Hugs Twinky)) I am soo sorry. IT is so difficult to lose our furry friends and when it is sudden it is all the worse. I wish I could offer more than an internet ((Hug))

I can only speak fro how I perceived it in the late 70's early 80's from my point of view and what people who were in Corps were doing and saying.. at least the ones I came into contact with. None of us (who joined TWI) were biblical scholars most of us were young.. I would venture to guess about ages 15 to 28... with some older people around but the majority were in that age range. We had minimal exposure to biblical teaching before TWI. This would be sunday school or bible study.. with people of our same level of expertise...(I am sure there were a few churches out their teaching actual bible study but nothing that even remotely came close to the greek and hebrew terms and the amount of flipping back and forth thru the books of the bible to get a meaning of something. IF you went into the corps you were then trained in the manner of study VP wanted them taught. Anyone who found information that was either proof of wrong TWI docrine or who just asked a question about it that might reveal error was brow beat or out right booted out. If you were a new PFAL grad and said you wanted to study it for your self and spend some time really looking into it you were laughed at and or told that you didn't need to do that. "Dr has already done it for you" I was told this on more than one occasion(this would be at least once a year or more from the moment I finished PFAL) because GOD forbid I should actually spend some time looking at the greek words and looking up more passages than what was written out in PFAL. How dare I question "DR" I know I wasn't the only one who got this line of baloney. I heard it said to Corps people who were working on some (???) corps research projects??? any way it irritated me as TWI was supposed to be a research ministry as well as a teaching ministry. (just so you don't get the wrong Idea I was not trying to argue against PFAL. I was just trying to look at the stuff we were already taught and maybe have a little more information on it. IT wasn't like I was out their arguing about it or anything like that I just really wanted to read it and understand it for myself.) being a stubborn idiot. I would just continue my bull in the china shop attempts to study the bible. Anyway that is my experience with it. and what waysider said which answered your question much more succinctly

Thanks I actually did a search on his name yesterday. He figured prominently. Does any one know if any of the people monitoring us ever left TWI after learning all the disgusting crap they did, OR is that just wishful thinking on my part?

(IN PFAL I think) I remember there was a huge emphasis on Jesus not being a wimp and getting in the faces of the pharisees and such. That he was very confrontational. In my opinion they pushed this kind of mentality.

For most people you have to go back and re-look at it for a lot of reasons the biggest being as you age and grow so does your understanding of the events and the perpetrators and your self. Your understanding of not only what happened to you but how you dealt with it and how you are dealing with it now. IT is also a way to remind your self what happened. A way to keep yourself safe from it happening again. Every one had a different experience and a different level of hurt. Coming back and rehashing it is a way to pull it out when it is long behind you and try to look at it in a more balanced perspective. And sometimes to finally forgive yourself for the sin you think you committed when sometimes it is really the sin of another and you were not to blame. IT is also as Cheranne said a way to help others .. sometimes a way to warn them. Sometimes it is just to remind your self that you were not alone. That there were others.

The spoon as a discipline tool was taught in a child rearing book that was popular in the late 70's. I know it was being used as early as 1979 probably before that. IT was embraced by quite a few religious groups at the time not to mention many others. It fell out of use by maybe 1986 as another child rearing method had come into vogue which involved consequences rather than beating or striking. As usual TWI took some one elses teaching and made it their own morphing it into something very different. Now I could remember this wrong but I believe there were strict rules of guidance in the book on when to use the spoon and when to not use it and when it was appropriate age wise. I never saw TWI offer the book for sale to their people so I am not sure if believers ever knew of it's existence. I knew from before joining TWI from a friends sister in law who was using it for disciplining her child. who was about 3. I am willing to bet some folks knew of it and some didn't .

I thought I would add this The method Cman suggested of keeping everything in your MY documents is excellent. IT also affords the opportunity to just copy it over to a memory stick.SO once a week you would just copy it over it only takes a minute OR as often as you felt it needed to be done. be sure to get at least a 4 gig stick. Pictures tack up a lot of room you also might want to keep your photos on a separate memory stick from your document stuff or even keep them on one of those free or paid online services like Photobucket. Edited to add wiping a hard drive and reloading software is not that difficult but it is time consuming.. for a novice plan on about 6 hours of including rereading instructions and turning on and realizing you still needed to load a few more drivers.

Yes it does. I know it is a lot of posts I am up to page 8 right now. What disgusts me the most is people calling the victims Liars. The real liars ore the ones saying that it didn't happen. I am so glad I left in 83. before my darling babies were born. We were good to the kids in our twig (My husband and I) We felt it wasn't right to make them sit through long teachings, or make them sit still. I held ::sunday school:: for them. We sang songs and played games and learned how to pray together and colored bible pictures I found for them and generally had a fun time. I am heartbroken for these Children who were abused, for their parents who were racked with the guilt of it all. I am angry at the BOD and MOG... You can be sure they knew what was going on when they sent that as***le to Alaska to continue on his abuse. the bastards(mod it out if you have to but they deserve the designation and I am putting it in) Okay back to reading

Moved to the top so I can find it again and read the information Some times when I read this stuff I hope and Pray God forgives me for the people I brought to TWI.

The Honest answer is lots of them would. We like to think our kids are well informed and in may respects yes they are . They are also very skeptical about the world around them. But they are just as vulnerable as we were. Every one wants to be loved and accepted and everyone wants to be the person that knows the answers. Honestly they still get involved in drugs they still have premarital sex. they still make bad decisions and they still join cults and get themselves in dangerous situations every day. Would they jump in as fast as us perhaps not. but yes they would fall for it. They fall for stuff already. edited to add One other thing to remember is most of us got involved by being told about it by a friend. I wasn't witnessed to I was invited by two friends. Yes I know that is what witnessing is. But it is not an in your face kind of thing it is a hey we are having fun doing this want to come along? That is why I know it would work again.

I'm curious. Does anyone know if any of the security people who were always reading waydale and GSC. took the information here and decide to leave the way. and who was/is MR Linder?

IT is kind of a place to finally do what you originally set out to do in TWI To spread the truth .. The truth about TWI in relation ot the Bible The truth abut who the originator of TWI was and who his hand picked minions really were. A place to hear and speak the truth about what TWI really was . The good parts , THE bad parts the fun parts and the parts that were horrific for those who happened into the spiders lair. A place to find out what parts of PFAL were true and what parts weren't A place to learn about who really were the people who originated VP's teachings, and what those were. A place to get healing from your hurts if you had them from being in TWI A place to find old friends you haven't seen in years IT is lots more than just an anti TWI place. IT is place of information, connection, emotional support. and for a little bit of friendship. GSC is a whole lot of things.

My Husband was snagged by the date and switch. and it lead him into the corps.(his words: Oh I followed a pretty girl into the corps) For me it was the offer of a class about how to study the bible. That was all I was doing, was taking the class to learn to read and study the bible. Then I heard about WOW while in the class and thought I want to do that. IT was a chance to really get my spiritual feet under me and to repay God for rescuing me. I came from a terrible childhood and had become born again about 3 years before encountering TWI. Going Wow for me was a way to take some time out to really focus my thoughts and actions around God and his word. To share the love and forgiveness and salvation I had received from God and to learn skills and habits that I hoped to continue utilizing for the rest of my life. I wanted to understand the bible because it had been the thing that had really saved me from my previous life and I had started to see the healing from the word that my heart and mind were getting long before I encountered TWI. IT seemed like the very best thing to come my way. I was very lucky... The people I encountered through out my time in TWI were wonderful loving honest people, they were there because of their own love of God and their own desire to serve God. My WOW family and the other family we were sent out with (I actually think of both as my WOW family.. that is how close we got) were all wonderful honest loving people. We did not use any tactics to get classes together we just spent our time working, reading the bible, holding fellowships in our homes, praying and having a really good time. I was far away from HQ both in the area I came from and the area I went WOW in. I believe that at the time I was in for the majority of people, unless you were close to HQ, or in one of the larger branches/Limbs you lead a fairly peaceful life with in the twigs and on the WOW field, but this was slowly but surely changing. The poison of HQ was beginning to seep out from HQ and spread like a dark cloud and it built slowly year after year. Bad leadership created bad leadership and it had begun to pick up speed right as my husband and I left. Which was 1983. Now I am not saying that there weren't bad leaders and bad stuff happening to people .. In fact I am pretty sure there was but unless you personally knew someone it happened to or it was your leader putting it out there you wouldn't even know about it. If you were in Corps the stuff you heard was never the whole story. (Coming here and reading the true stories from some of those who were there during the accidents or were the actual victims has been eye opening for me.) HQ certainly wasn't telling anyone about it, When you did hear stuff it was usually second or third hand so you never were sure if it was a rumor or true or how much of it was true. This is not to say that I didn't hear the argument that TWI was a cult. Of course I did but it was not the TWI I was a part of. (That being the people I encountered in it on a daily basis.) People were coming and going as they pleased at that time and you were only just starting to be taught that you should be giving 10 percent of your income(gross not Net) and if you were really standing on the word you would be giving more. Mark and avoid was just starting to be practiced but wasn't called that yet. Very few people knew about some of the horrors being perpetrated on the corps and HQ staff or even on Some of the WOW's. Also they were just starting to really push separating from those you loved. Another teaching that had just started to really be pushed right about the time we left was the whole devil spirits thing. THE whole people were possessed and even things you had in your home. Slowly but surely they were creating an environment full of devil spirits to be afraid of that were lurking around every corner waiting to posses you. As if they could once you had filled your heart and mind with GOd and his word. (sheesh ) That was the Teaching that had really made me start to question the whole thing. I was pretty sure there were no devil spirits waiting to posses me, and I was also sure that they would not stick around in my home where I read and studied the word and prayed daily. I see now after reading what happened after we left that if we had stayed I would have probably lost my Husband or we would have walked out within the next couple of years. I am glad people come on here and share and point fingers because if they didn't I still wouldn't know all the stuff that happened. I would still be thinking of TWI as just a bunch of Christians who were misunderstood.

Pawtucket I think you need to contact TheMex on here he lives in mexico city and is very fluent.

This is what TWI did to people . IT removed your reference points so you lost your way!

I also heard i used in reference to tithing your whole 10% plus more!

I think difficulty in leaving had a lot to do with your position within TWI and time involved and also where you lived. Some people think the bad stuff happened after Martindale took over but I have to say i was seeing bad stuff after my first year in TWI. Here is some of the stuff I encountered from 79-83 Guns at ROA... beliefs that were not from the bible being taught to believers the whole if you are advanced enough you can commit sins was an idea that I can vouch for hearing when I first got involved in the way in 1979. Arguments about doctrine and some of the teachings being inaccurate... arguments about PFAL and inaccuracies. THE Gay bashing thing started as early as 1981. I saw it first hand... not just heard about it saw it. and i was out west when it happened. Mark and Avoid was going on as early as 1981 I do not think it was called that but it was practiced with in the Way Corps. The teaching that it was okay to have extra marital sex was out their also as early as 1979 and because of who was teaching it I am gonna guess it was going on two years before I saw it. This was a Corps person ... from 6th way corps. NOT to mention hearing it bandied about by other Corps at the ROA Do I have facts no I did not carry around tape recording devices and these are not the kind of things people write down so no but I know what I saw and heard for myself. For me reading that others saw this stuff too makes me realize that I was not imagining it and that I was right when it gave me the creeps. Now I am just glad to have escaped in more or less one piece mentally.. spiritually is a different story. . BTW as early as 1980 they were telling people they were not really tithing if they were not giving at least ten percent and it ought to be from your gross earnings not your net earnings oh and by the way if you do not Tithe at least ten percent you can not expect to be financially blessed by God. And this was the WOW's they were telling it to. at least in the State I was in. As to breaking legal laws maybe what I saw wasn't breaking legal laws but it was certainly breaking God's precepts. I guess would be the right way to word it. IS any Church perfect NO a thousand times no but if the Church or group you are going to is not at least making an attempt to stand on the Word of God then get out .. and run for the hills. Oh gosh sorry that went on a bit didn't it.

lol not likely

you Know now that I look at it yeah it does weight things toward the CFF doesn't it.. You are right Socks and Cheranne it is very Confusing. Cherann if you double click on the video and go direct to youtube there is a link in the discription to the my space page and it is still there.

IT is just words with a link to their myspace page with comments turned off. They seem to be quite aware of the issues. I think you brought this point up on another thread that they are aware of it. THat they chose to be there because they believe they are in a ministry that is teaching the only truth out there or the most truth out there. The same stuff we believed way back when.. The things the person put value on are a bit odd, dress code and such but I am not surprised by that as I have been to the HQ website. Those blue suits.. Maybe I missinterpreted it I did only skim the info. ,

I have to agree with this after having my Husbands and his brothers home made beers. and the taste is fantastic from the first to the last sip. (This is saying a lot I am not a big beer drinker.. I am a Have one on an incredibly hot day kind of person)

Well I love the cat song and now it needs a melody too.. see two songs just like that. I hope the words come to you for your song.

It is some ones personal my space page and their own little youtube set up. Cheranne I think a personal attempt to get believers.

No it makes it a statement that there is crap from Groucho's dog on a lawn some where a fact.

Hmmm then I suggest a little diddy about your Dog or if you don't have a dog then your best friend not too crazy important but some fun activity you did. Just to break the ice you know like this I had a dog his name was Fred he liked to play in the woods and his coat was red. just something silly and fun to get you started. :)