LG

Galen, whether or not “their share” was an apt choice of words, you should know better than to write what you wrote. The federal government’s revenue comes primarily from taxes. The vast majority of it comes from taxes on income, including “income tax,” as well as Social Security and Medicare taxes. All tax-exempt organizations benefit from taxes others pay. An example that seems appropriate to TWI is the benefit provided by law enforcement and the judicial system. Also, there was an income tax from 1862-1872 and a business income tax (called an excise tax, but on income) in the early 20th century. The 16th amendment was ratified in 1913, and the progressive income tax we now have, though at different rates and with varying rules, has been in effect ever since. For anyone interested, I'll provide a link to some good information: History of the U.S. Tax System

Imaginary, dmiller. The function has no real roots. Or, Jesus spake unto them a parabola.

I don't give a hoot about TWI, and haven't for many years. I don't even know who the people running it are, except that I remember what's her name advertising PFAL '77, I think it was. What I like about this place is the variety of viewpoints represented here. I also like that almost any topic can be discussed. Not many are covered in great depth, but the comments can be thought-provoking. Many times, I've seen something discussed here and had my interest sparked enough to go read up on it or to just sit back and think about it from a perspective I might not otherwise have considered.

No matter whose version of events is correct, the kid could have avoided the problem by doing what a responsible person should do if there is a good reason to act differently than the general rules, which is to arrange an exception ahead of time or as soon as the need comes up. He could have talked to the appropriate teacher or administrator, who almost certainly would have been sympathetic and arranged an exception in his case, possibly by allowing him to take the call in the office.

Do women understand what it’s like to be boys or men? Do men understand what it’s like to be girls or women? Not fully, but they sure can understand a lot. Single women can raise boys well and single men can raise girls well. It takes empathy and a willingness to reach beyond conventional gender roles. I raised a daughter by myself. The sorts of intimate conversations women have with their daughters, I’ve had with mine. The sorts of things they do with their daughters, I've done with mine. The things they teach their daughters, I’ve taught mine. That often required that I learn or do things that I otherwise wouldn’t have, so I learned and did. It required that I explore and discuss feelings and interests that were foreign to me, so I explored and discussed. I don’t see how that’s so different from what a heterosexual parent of a homosexual child or a homosexual parent of a heterosexual child would likely do. Also, sexuality is much more than sex acts. People understand that about themselves. Why some people seem not to understand that about some others is beyond me.

So if you think some may be doing that, diazbro, why not ask them about their beliefs and logic, rather than discussing TWI's?

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody here holds to Way teachings or "logic."

I was going to let this go, but I changed my mind. I call bull****!Item 1: “guilty of disobedience to God’s heart…” Item 2: consistent use of “homo” instead of “homosexual.” Item 3: “in the dealings I’ve had with ‘homos’ … very seldom that I’ve been dealt with honestly” Item 4: “…in my life its been super super hard to really ‘buddy up’ to someone who in the back of their mind would have an unGodly adgenda possibly for me in their behalf…” This one takes the cake! You don’t even consider sexual preference, but you presume to know what “unGodly adgenda” [sic] exists in the back of someone’s mind. Item 5: “possibly for me” in the above quote indicates that you take someone else’s sexual persuasion rather personally. Item 6: “..thus in allowing a child to sleep over etc with a homo..I'd definitely put my foot down.” This indicates that you consider it a threat to your child. Do you really think that your attitude is not apparent to every homosexual with whom you come in contact? If so, you’re deluding yourself. Do you really think, with an attitude like that, that your “attempts to treat him with civility and encouragement” (even that wording displays your attitude) come across as anything like being friendly? Do you think that the "cold & indifferent" reaction you get is “because of their sexual preference?” Sorry, Charlie. It’s because of your attitude about them. “I am hetero & sexual preference to me is something I don't even consider in dealing with others...” Yeah right. That might make you feel good but it's bull****. Well, I see our friendly autocensor is busily shielding innocent eyes. Funny, that **** is far less offensive than "homo" and denotes something less foul than the air that must linger about some who "don't even consider" sexual orientation in dealing with others.

Def, could it be that some are simply angry about how they've been treated?

Seems pretty reasonable, Jonny.

I was kidding, Galen, as I am now. Submariners are not normal men. Going down underwater in a big metal tube with a bunch of other men is one of the most unnatural acts I can imagine. Anyone who would choose to make a lifestyle of doing that has got to have some serious problems.

Most boys spend at least 5 to 10 minutes a day not thinking about sex. Grown men can sometimes go as much as a whole hour without thinking about sex.

I’m going to be a little presumptuous and elaborate on this question. I don’t wish to put anyone on the spot or to argue. I don’t even care if anyone posts a reply, though I’d be interested in reading it. I just want to maybe provoke a little thought about things that actually do come up. At least some people who strongly disapprove of homosexuality on Biblical grounds surely must face these sorts of questions.Suppose that your kid is passionate about some school activity (theater, athletics, whatever) and some of the kids involved in that activity are homosexual. How would you advise your child to relate to them? Should they be friends? Would a homosexual child be welcome in your home to work on lines for a play, to practice shooting baskets, or to practice a musical duet? How about to attend a party for cast or team members? How about just to hang out with your child and perhaps other kids? Would you offer a homosexual child a ride home from school or a school-related activity? Are there any circumstances in which you might invite a homosexual child to spend the night in your home? Suppose an activity involves out of town travel and overnight stays, like some of my daughter’s activities did. Do you object to a homosexual child going on the trip? Do you forbid your child to go? Do you object or forbid only if your child and the homosexual child are of the same gender? Do you not object if they both go on the trip but do object to (or forbid) their sharing a hotel room? Do you allow them to share a hotel room but discuss concerns you may have and warn your child first? If you allow your child to be friends with homosexual children who share common interests, and your child is getting grief about it from church friends, what advice do you give to your child? Depending on how close you are to your child’s church friends, what, if any, advice do you give to them? Suppose that you are getting grief from your adult church friends about permitting your child to be friends with homosexual children who share common interests. How do you respond to them? Again, I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot or to provoke an argument. I don't have any religious objections to homosexuality, but I'm not sure how I would answer some of these questions, so I'm surely not going to challenge any answers that might be posted. (Well, if you say you'll invite them over and then stone them, I might challenge that.)

The way I read the Bible, the main thing, if not the only thing, that Christians should judge about others is how their words and actions affect other people. It is proper to esteem people highly for the good they do. It is proper to condemn the things people do to harm others. Other than that, how people live is pretty much between them and God, and not for others to judge. I’m not a Christian, but I think that’s a very good standard, and one I try to live by.

Treat others as you would like others to treat you. Let your kids see how you treat others and tell them why you live the way you do.

If God exists and millions die, then God allows them to die.

Oh BS LG. Being homosexual does indicate a desire to have sex with the same sex. Just like being heterosexual. Come on, Jonny, you can read and think better than that! I didn't say a thing about not having desires. I clearly said that being homosexual meant being attracted to members of the same sex. What the heck kind of attraction do you think I meant? Not gravitational, I assure you.Do you have a young teenaged daughter? Is she attracted to boys but not to girls? Then she is heterosexual. Does that imply that she is having sex, and has been since she first became aware of her attraction to boys? Of course not! You'd be highly offended if we assumed that. You might want to think about that before you start making assumptions about other people's children.

Has anyone here suggested that? I don’t know if you have teenage children or not, but let’s assume you have a 15-year-old daughter. Suppose she comes to you and says she is heterosexual (more likely by expressing an attraction toward boys than by saying “I’m heterosexual.”) Do you think any of us would suggest that you find out who she’s having sex with and welcome them into your home? Do you know anyone who would? Being homosexual does not imply having sex any more than being heterosexual implies having sex. It simply means being attracted to members of the same sex in the way that your teenage daughter is attracted to members of the opposite sex. Would you automatically assume that your 15-year-old daughter has a sex partner and ask the partner’s age? What do you think? Would that change your view of your heterosexual 15-year-old daughter’s “lifestyle?” What would you say if an older man were seducing/raping your daughter? What kind of heterosexual person is your daughter planning on being? There are many types and not all live healthy lifestyles. Are you knowledgeable enough about heterosexual practices to counsel your daughter about the consequences? (Everything homosexuals do is also done by heterosexuals.) Back at you. Would you deny your daughter access to pornography or heteroerotic literature? What do you get if you fill them in with heterosexuality?You’d be offended as hell if I assumed that your heterosexual teenaged daughter is a slut. Well, consider the assumptions you are making about other people’s children.

Ok, so G_d is silly... That response is silly. I didn’t say anything that leads to that conclusion, or even hints at it.

Earlier today, I picked my mother up from the hospital. Those people did all sorts of unnatural things to her while she was there, and they do even more unnatural things to other people on a regular basis. In our society, we not only approve of such unnatural behavior, we liberally fund it. How perverse is that? ;)-->

I think the whole “natural-unnatural” thing is silly. What animals do neither validates nor invalidates what people do. The “if it had been in God’s plan for people to ___, He’d have formed them ___” line of reasoning is silly too. God didn’t give me long, hard, flat feet. Does that mean that I shouldn’t ski? There are lots of things humans do that they couldn’t do without man-made devices. Homosexuality requires no such devices. How is it less “natural” than brewing a cup of coffee, posting on the Internet, or driving to work?

Jerry, to the extent that people proclaiming those numbers cite a source, it is either Cameron’s 1994 article in Omega, "The Longevity of Homosexuals: Before and After the AIDS Epidemic" or a 1993 paper he presented to the Eastern Psychological Association, “The Homosexual Lifespan. You can probably find the Omega article in a university library or order it from Cameron’s Family Research Institute, where you can also get information he puts out about himself. For some less favorable information about him and his studies, CLICK HERE. You could also search the Internet using terms like “cameron,” “homosexual,” “lifespan,” “longevity,” “obituary,” etc.

Sharon and Galen, This is off topic but I'm curious. Why do you write "G-d" instead of "God?" I've noticed that Galen doesn't change "God" when he quotes the Bible. Do you, Sharon? When either of you speak the word, do you pronounce it like everyone else does?

Jonny, I wouldn't feel safe in saying anything about life expectancy without reliable statistics. The homosexuals I've known seem to be as likely to be healthy and long-lived as the heterosexuals I've known, if not more likely. I've known a lot of people who have died at relatively young ages. Only one has been homosexual and his death had nothing at all to do with his homosexuality.

That is great about your daughter going to the National Finals, ex10. Both you and she should be proud. Same thing regarding your oldest daughter, pink hair or not. My daughter died her hair purple once, but that was after she graduated from high school, and she died it back to her natural color (well, almost) shortly afterward. Things like that are silly, IMO, but they're harmless.