Sunesis

Wow - its sure changed since I was on staff there in the early '80s. I lived off grounds, in the summer, spend my afternoons at Lake St. Mary's or the one only the locals know about, in Minster. Or, some of us would go for motorcycle rides. Many parties off grounds... Many clubs still around. We pretty much did what we wanted in our off time. I took a class at Wright State for which I was reimbursed if I got a B or more, but I scheduled it after work, on Wed. evenings, so I was back, but it was just a little too late to go to corps night so I got to watch it on tv in the comfort of my trailer - hee hee. So, are you telling me, my favorite club to dance the night away on Friday or Saturday - Night Moves in Wapakoneta - just 15 minutes away - is closed???? I loved it, many of us went there. We danced, drank and partied. We also kept it a secret, we didn't want the HQ leadership finding out about it. But, I would also advise - run!!! The reason we partied was to self-medicate and forget where we were...

Well, sounds like the word's out - don't go on staff!!! Darn this internet thingy. But - that means the poor people stuck there will be working longer and longer to make up. Get out now...

Well power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I was friends with a couple of her sisters and they told me both her and LCM's parents were opposed to LCM being made president of TWI. They felt they were way too young for that kind of power and money that would be coming their way. Sounds like the moms and dads were right. But, I can think of one incident, near the time I fled HQ and staff, where the hardness of heart was starting to become quite evident. Glad you got out!

I agree with Excie - Donna had a lot of compassion for people. Now she sounds like a petty little tyrant with a seared conscience. If you could get her out of there and away from Rosie for a few years, she'd become a totally different person - probably the one she once was.

Erkjohn, is there a problem?

Teachme, good thoughts, I will read and digest and get back to you. :)

Great to see you again Socks!!!!

Teachme, I really enjoyed your articles and I thought I’d put my thoughts down in one place on them. 1. First, Lucifer was a Cherub – the one who covered, the guardian. He was part of the Cherubum type beings. I think that fits thenin better with dealing with the intense light. 2. When it says he walked among the stones of fire, many people think that is talking about planets, I do not. Note one of his functions was as a priest. He was the mediator between God and the angelic creation. Like a Priest, he wore a breastplate that had 9 stones on it. Note, Aaron, as Priest, wore a breastplate/ephod, with 12 stones on it. I believe Aaron and the 12 tribes of Israel were a representation on earth of the Heavenly, angelic tribes. Just as Angels are the “host of heaven” so Israel was God’s “host” on earth. 3. Lucifer had sanctuaries – sacred places. He defiled those holy sanctuaries. He did violence to them and corrupted them. How does one defile and utterly corrupt holiness? 4. I like your picture of light in the 1st heaven. I call, or think of that light as “God’s Glory.” It is a place, where God, who only dwelleth in the light that no man can see. a. I like the concept of the earth now being enclosed – enclosed in the 2nd heaven, or what we would now know today as our Universe. I believe in the universe, there is a veil that literally separates this universe and closes us off from the light of this Glory. b. I believe in the “new heaven and earth” the reason there will be no sun, moon, stars, universe is because we will no longer be enclosed in this universe. The veil, or curtain will be removed, or pulled back, and, as it was in the 1st heaven, God’s light of this glory will again fill all of eternity – our present enclosure will no longer be needed. 5. Regarding Lucifer’s rebellion, I differ from you in that I believe he rebelled before Gen. 1:2. I think Gen 1:2 on is a restoration of the earth. God turns on the light, and restores the earth, encases it in our universe (thus, making sun, moon, stars, etc.) – then puts material creation, flora and fauna upon it, then eventually Adam and Eve upon it, in a sanctuary, an eden, again, a type of heavenly sanctuary/God’s Garden. Adam is now to rule and mediate between God and earthly creation, as Lucifer had done over the spiritual domain. 6. In Gen. 1:2, when the earth, via Lucifer’s cataclysmic rebellion became without form and void – waste and dark, it was then I believe God said – go ahead, you want to be the creator – restore it. Lucifer is not a creator and could not. He was humiliated in front of the heavenly host. 7. I believe Lucifer enticed the Angels into falling by offering them something that they did not have. Ask yourself – what could wonderful, powerful spiritual beings possibly want that God did not provide for them? What was God possibly “denying” them (according to Lucifer)? Answer: A body. A sentient, feeling body so they could literally “feel.” I will leave it to you to think about what those bodies could have been – I have some ideas. 8. But, the previous paragraph is also why I believe God requires his redeemed creation - you and me - to begin in the flesh first, then receive a spiritual body. Why? Because, in eternity, if God does create new material beings someday, His redeemed, spiritual, new creation will NOT be tempted to rebel and inhabit a body, as I believe the angels that fell did. We will have “been there, done that.” 9. I believe the Temple pattern God gave to Israel, His earthly Host, illustrates for them and us, the reality of the universe and place of Glory that now is. a. The large outer court of the temple represents our universe, the court illustrates our enclosure on earth in the present universe – where the earth is now encased. b. The innermost sanctum of the temple, the “holy of holies” is the place of Glory where God, who is light dwells, on the mercy seat – his throne, covered by the cherubim. I think there is a literal veil somewhere in the universe that divides our universe from this Light. c. Christ rent the veil on earth in the Temple when he was resurrected symbolizing we now have access into the presences of God in glory, we are no longer cordoned off – someday we will all dwell in his light, but for now, the veil in the universe is still “stretched out as a curtain” until the new heaven and earth are revealed. Then, the veil will be removed, there will be no more universe and the Earth will dwell in the glory of the light that lights eternity. Anyway, your posts were great food for thought. I basically disagreed on the time frame of Satan’s rebellion but other than that, I really enjoyed them. Thanks for sharing.

Ductape, I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. I can just hear him - hey - I ain't queer - look at all the womens I sc*&w! Not me - uh uh - I ain't no homo perv... What a horrible, nasty thing the purge was. Now, I can't believe he's in an efficiency apt. when Rosie has a house, the Bidens have/had that lovely place - I can't believe LCM didn't hold out for a nice house and "pension."

Well, congratulations on getting out! That's what this site is for :) Hang out, share, and I guarantee you you'll feel a lot better about things in time. You weren't the only one who got hurt by TWI, but in the beginning - it can shake up your world with thoughts of, how could I have let this happen??? Hey, it happened to all of us. There is nothing wrong with you. You loved God and wanted to serve him - that counts for something. When I left, one of my favorite verses was in Joel: God will repay the years the locusts have eaten. That was a tremendous promise and blessing to me. I also, didn't pick up the Bible for a long time. Eventually over time, months, I had some thoughts and ideas come to me and some things I started to look at in the Bible - when I look back, it was the Holy Spirit teaching me, my first steps away from TWI doctrine - and God teaching me - not man - what I needed to know for my life personally. So, now, if you have to just put it all down and lay it aside - sometimes you just have to put yourself in neutral. The only one who can really teach you if there is a God or not, or a Christ or not is God. But, over the years, I have found, that with the Holy Spirit, we can see Christ - just as if he were here in the flesh so to speak. As to your question - who really knows Jesus Christ? I used to wonder, while I was in TWI - just what the heck believers outside of TWI meant when they talked about their "personal" relationship with Christ. Now, I know. It was not until leaving TWI though. Sure, we loved "God" and the "Word" - but - and here's TWI's great harm it did to the believer - we never knew Christ. We never knew Christ. In TWI, the Word took the place of the "Absent Christ." That was a lie - he is not absent - He walks among the Churchs (Rev.), and will reveal himself to you if you ask him too. But, all in time. As I said, I just had to put it all down, take a break, get your life, job, housing - just get your life going again. After years in TWI - its time to now take care of HappyGay :)

LOL! Yes, I'm sure it was a long walk :) Looking forward to your next installment.

I think LCM is terrified of it - probably for good reason - we all know about the guys who yell the loudest about a topic are covering for their attraction to it. That's one possibility. The other is, I really think, he found about about his wife and Rosie and was enraged and had to direct that anger somewhere...

That was very cool! I enjoyed. Now, also realize, its also there in that realm, that the church of the one body, the "new creation" - the church of the mystery revealed to Paul, was purposed, planned for, and called, and there too is where they will abide. Israel was not called until the earth and mankind were made. They were called to represent the "fleshly" side of man, now and in eternity on the earth. Did you write that yourself? People ask, where does God dwell. We know he dwells above the heavens, in light and in a place called glory. But, to illustrate to Israel, he gave them the temple and its layout. Its layout shows us where he lives. You have the large outer court: The heavens - spaces, stars, universe. The inner holy of holies: Glory. Above the heavens - in the light. Covered by Cherubim - God's dwelling place. The High priest could enter once a year. Christ entered for eternity and still sits there, in glory, above the heavens, at God's right hand. One body - new creation - will also dwell there for eternity, above the heavenlies in Glory. Awesome. Thanks for that sharing.

Ahh... Its good to be me! I see an arrogant, we are special - you are slave - mentality in this pic. They were on top of the world.

I used to have dreams like others here had when I left TWI, but over the years, they've left. After reading all of Karl Jung and much of Freud's writings for fun after I left TWI, I even kept a journal of my dreams. But the dreams are very common anxiety dreams. Many of us left everything we knew and people we loved - it takes a while to come to grips with and can definitely be anxious times for us and our dreams reflect that in their own strange way.

Come to think of it, isn't it amazing the Weirwilles all dying of cancer. Yes, "Uncle" Harry did like to stick his tongue down the girls' mouths. There were quite a few surprised ladies.

Teachme, I believe every creature of God has, and will have, a body. There are bodies terrestial and bodies celestial, many differnt types of bodies - the heavens are teeming with angels, archangels, elders, Cherubum and others I'm sure. They are all blessed with what they are and made that way to fulfill a function God has given them. That's why I think even the earthly eternal bodies of Israel will be different than the eternal bodies of the "remnant" of Jews who go in and out of the "heavenly Jerusalem" and maybe those making up the body of the Bride will be a bit different. But, does it really matter? But all as pleases God. Earthly, heavenly, does it matter? We will be blessed :)

Teachme, I believe you are correct. Here are my thoughts on it - just thoughts - true or not? Who knows, I'll find out someday. I was reading one of the Gospels (I forget which one now) a few years ago, where Jesus told Thomas to touch and handle him. We know, Christs resurrected body did not have blood, he was now "powered" so to speak, by spirit - which I believe we all will be someday. But, who was he talking to, who did he show himself too? The Jews. Then it "hit me" so to speak - an aha moment - it was, oh - he is showing Israel, the Jewish people, what their resurrected bodies will look like. That was a "whoa..." moment for me. Because, also remember, Peter, John and James had seen him transfigured (while in his human, non-resurrected body) and had seen God's glory and the light in Christ's body. It was a profound moment Peter never forgot and mentions quite a bit. But, anyway, I believe the resurrected Lord, who appeared to the Apostles and let him touch and handle him, was showing them their eternal, resurrected bodies to come. But, since Israel inherits the new earth, God has populated "Glory" with a group also. I believe those in Union with Christ, members of the "one new CREATION" (yes, it will be a totally new creation - we have no idea what it will look like - just that it will be a totally "new creation" come into being) will have a different body - something made to dwell in Glory, in the heavenlies, as Christ's "new" body, Christ's heavenly vehicle so to speak. To dwell in light, those in that body in that sphere will have a some what different body than those on the earth or the New Jerusalem. So it seems to me. Just thoughts. But I agree, all, everything will be animated by, engergized by - Spirit - or Power. Ephesians says we have this power now - when we are born again. I think we do not comprehend what is really dwelling within us - but it energizes and animates our flesh somehow. How, I do not know. But, it is powerful enough to meet spiritual wickedness and defeat it via prayer.

I have always found it interesting that the Catholic Church were avid followers of the 12 apostles. Apostolic succession was, and still is, very important to them. They were not followers of Paul. Thus, you see the Catholics have built their earthly kingdom and at various stages have tried to rule the known world - because they have appropriated Israel's hope (you shall inherit the earth) for their own and applied it to the church of the grace administration. I have often wondered what Christianity would be like today if they had followed Paul's revelation. Although, in some ways, that's what was so revolutionary about Luther. He rejected much of the Catholic doctrine. But the problem with Protestantism is you have literally, almost 33,000 denominations - while the Catholics chug along with only one body. Augustine was a Pauline follower, so were several other early "church fathers" but later, the leadership reverted back to following the 12 apostles and taking the doctrine that was meant for Israel and applying it to the church of the one body. Interesting food for thought. If they had stuck with Paul, would there have been a crusades? Would there be "warriors" for Christ? Paul taught after the Mystery had been revealed we are to "stand" against the wiles of the adversary and pray - we have been given power to do that - not go out and kill and convert and rule the world (as Israel will do under Christ someday when he returns - see what happens when doctrine gets mixed up?). If Paul had been followed and people realized their hope was in heaven, would they be going on crusades or inquisitions killing people? Would they not have realized earthly government is just that - earthly government - man trying to keep order. There is nothing spiritual about it. Sometimes we get good ones, sometimes evil ones. We can read the OT to see everything from judges to Kings to Moses - differing types of governments, then ancient rome, greek - Emperors, etc. Man experiments. I tend to think there is a difference in result depending which view you follow. If you follow Israel's hope - as was made available for Gentiles to be grafted into, you know the earth will be yours someday, so why not try and make as much of it as you can yours - now? If there had been no revelation of that mystery - that would be the logical way to go - follow the commission of the apostles. Many people have this. If you understand that Israel has been put in abeyance and God and Christ are dealing with the Gentile and one new creation in this age, and our home is heavenly - would we not be a bit more gentle and forgiving as Christians as we look up - to the heavens, instead of to the earth? Just food for thought.

Teachme, I believe the "something better" in Hebrews 11:40 was the coming Kingdom on earth promised in the OT and the better city, the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked for. There will be the heavenly Jerusalem descending to earth. I love the book of Hebrews - its an amazing book on our Savior and what he did. Hebrews was written to the Jew and Gentile showing Christ as High Priest. Here's a list somewhere you may like, I forgot where I got it, but I've kept it in the back of my bible over the last few years. I. Kingdom Offered - the gospels "Repent, for the Kingdom is at Hand." II. Kingdom Re-offered to Israel - Acts. The re-offer was ended at Acts 28:28 because, "He came unto His own and His own received him not." During Acts: A. Epistles written by the Apostles to the Jews only: James - Works as outcome of faith I Peter - Suffering and Glory II Peter - Prophecy and Day of the Lord I John - Fellowship II John - The Truth III John - Hospitality B. Epistles written by Paul to Jew and Gentile - during time of RE-offer to Israel. The Gentiel is grafted in, the middle wall in the temple is still, literally up. The Jew is First ("To the Jew First") Romans - Justification by faith - Jew and Gentile I Corinthians - Carnality and spiritual things II Corinthians - Ministry and comfort Galations - Cross of Christ I Thessalonians - the Coming (Parousia) II Thessalonians - The revelation from Heaven Hebrews - Christ as High Priest III. Kingdom held in abeyance - Acts 28:28 until the "Lord's Day" (Book of Revelation). Israel blinded, Salvation sent to Gentiles. A. Gospel of the Dispensation of the Mystery To Gentiles - who's hope is in the heavenlies, or literally, "above the heavens" in "Glory" This truth not found in Moses, prophets, nor in ministries of Christ or the 12. Ephesians - In Christ - Heavenly citizenship, blessings and walk Philippians - Christ within, prize of the High calling Colossians - Complete in him, Christ as the Head I Timothy - Doctrine and Godliness II Timothy - The Crown - these last days (of the grace administration) Titus - Soundness, Hope Philemon - Christian Forgiveness. IV. Kingdom Accepted. The Day of the Lord. From Israel's repentence to the deliverance of the Kingdom to the Father. Promise of life fulfilled. Ends in New Heaven and New Earth in which dwells righteousness. Revelation. All prophecy fulfilled. Completes the beginning of Genesis. We now step off into eternity... :) This is just a list I found somewhere, but I kind of like it. Do I agree with all of it - no, but its a handy little guide and outline. Hope you enjoy it Teachme.

Well, I don't know a whole lot about parables, except that the ones Christ spoke in the Gospels were regarding the coming Kingdom to earth (Israel's hope), and the things in the parable did symbolize other things. All I know is, I was alway hoping I didn't do anything too bad to get cut off and lose my "grafted" status as discussed in Romans :). I really think there is a difference, there was a transition from what I call the Acts period - or the time when the Savior and Kingdom were offered again to Israel after Christ's death, to the transition and a new period, where Israel was set aside and new period, the age of grace was ushered in, where all gentile nations could partake - i.e., the age of Grace and the one new creation, the one body with a home in Glory. This was not made known until the "prison" epistles written after the book of Acts closes. The other epistles were written during Acts and correspond with the accounts in Acts as they were waiting for the immediate return of their Messiah. That's why Paul in one epistle can say, if you aren't married, its best if you don't. Later, after he realized Israel was in abeyance, he had the revelation of Grace and the one body and realized we were in a new age, he said - go ahead, get married. He knew it was a new administation so to speak.

I wouldn't worry about it. I post in the political forum and people don't like my politics. I have a terrible rep. All the ones in lockstep pat themselves on the back and give each other great reps - its comical. Really, don't take is too seriously :)

erkjohn, you are correct, Paul does quote the OT in Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galations, I & II Thessalonians, and Hebrews. This is why, I believe: I finally realized - for me - in order to understand the NT (not counting gospels), ask myself the question: Were they believing and looking for Israel's hope when this book was written? The books I mentioned above were written during the Acts time period. What were they looking for during Acts? The Gentiles by grace had been "grafted" in and were now partakers of Israel's hope and promises. No one ever dreamed the Messiah would be rejected. They were looking for his return from heaven in glory - they were looking for Revelation to begin - that was the END for them - there was no other alternative. And, he was coming shortly. They fully expected to be alive when he returned. That is the hope Paul taught and preached, so yes, in the books I mentioned, the OT was quoted extensively. He was preparing them, especially the gentiles who were born again, to enter into the earthly kingdome, partaking of Israel's hope. Then, as I said, uh-oh... Israel did not repent... Now what??? God goes to the Gentiles. Paul now receives the "fullness" of the revelation - the cherry on top, kept secret from before the foundations of the world. It was inconceivable to that the Messiah would be rejected - but God knew. The so-called "prison epistles" - Ephesians, Colossians, Phillipians, Philemon, I & II Timothy (I'm missing one - don't have my bible with me) - were written AFTER the Book of Acts closes, were written AFTER Israel was set aside. They were written after. They deal with the new revelation of the Mystery. Thus, you will find almost no OT quotes in these epistles as it was not written there. I and II Timothy to me are kind of like a transition books - how a leader conducts himself in this new administration of the mystery. I believe that's why there, Paul tells Timothy to "rightly divide" the Word. Back then, everyone knew the OT and OT prohecies, and many were fullfilled by Christ when he was on earth, but now, you have this parenthesis, this age of grace and it was to be "rightly divided" - the difference between OT, and the sliver of time we're in now - the age of grace. It was important to keep the distinctions between the two and where they were after Israel was put aside in Acts 28. When you read the "prison epistles" you're in a new, spiritual dimension. Paul explains the new creation and where its place (Glory) will be in the new creation and eternity. We will be dwellers in the light and will need new bodies to dwell in this place. Plus, we are told our "blessings" are in heavenly places - not on earth, like Israel's. So, anyway, to me, I ask when I read the epistles - which hope were they looking for? I think TWI's mistake was putting Acts and all the NT together. But that's another topic. So, yes, you will read OT verses in Galations and Romans - why? Because they were looking for Israel's hope, prophesied in the OT and eagerly awaited. The Mystery had not yet been revealed yet during the period those books were written. Didn't you ever wonder, even in TWI (I did), how in Romans, we were basically lucky to be grafted into to the olive tree (Israel), but just as the natural branches were pruned - watch out - you, Mr. Gentile, could be too. Then contrast in Eph.: neither depth nor height, things in this world or the next can ever separate us from the love of Christ? What a contradiction. So, once I figured out, which hope were they looking for - Israel's? (as they were in Romans) then it made sense. The prison epistles move you into a new spiritual territory. Even today many people don't get them and are totally flummoxed by Ephesians, which is considered the greatest "mystical" book of the NT. Maybe that's why its the only one written to the "faithful in Christ Jesus." :)

Yes, they did. Remember, Isreal rejected its Messiah, and the "last call" so to speak of the Apostles, that if Israel repented, Christ was ready to come back in his glory and they would enter the book of Revelation, so to speak. Also remember in Acts, Romans, I&II Corinthians, I and II Thessalonians, Hebrews and Galations - Paul had not yet received his revelation of the "one new man" the "new creation" the "one body." During that time, it was Israel's hope that was taught and preached, and at that point, any Gentile who believed, was basically lucky to be "grafted in" and able to partake of Israel's hope - the new earth and heavenly jerusalem come to earth. Now, along comes Ephesians and the rest of the prison epistles. Remember, Israel had done the unthinkable - they had rejected their Messiah. Uh oh - now what? Well, now, God says, I will go to the Alien and Stranger, the one who had NO HOPE, absolutely no inheritance in Israel's hope, the one who was "without me" and could never know me. They had no Hope. They were adrift on the earth. Israel was my chosen fleshly people on earth. Through Israel, it was my intention that they spread my knowledge to the Gentiles. But now, because of Israel's hardness, blindness, hearing they will not hear, seeing they will not see... I will go to the Gentile. I will give the revelation to Paul of a mystery I have kept hidden and not prophesised about in the OT. A plan I purposed in eternity, before Gen. 1:1. I will call out a body to live with me above the heavens, in Glory with me. Whoa! Hold on there!! To a Jew, or a Gentile who had become a Christian during the Acts period, this was unthinkable. They said, this was never, ever, written in the OT. You can't prove this Paul - it is not written! The priest could enter into the holy of holies in the temple once a year - signifying entrance into the Glory where God dwelt - but now you are saying Paul that the Gentiles who believe will live there with him - in God's glory????!!!!! You're nuts! They walked away. All asia turned away. Paul received the fullness of the revelation, the mystery, a new thing. He rarely used OT quotes to back it up - because its not there. They basically had to take it on faith that what he said was true. I see it more as, there is a new heaven and earth coming that will dwell in God's light holy, pure, and without sin, and God, over time is calling people to believe and is going about populating all segments of the new earth and heaven. That's why new bodies will be needed. The laws of phyics as we know them will be folded up. He is populating the new earth, the heavenly Jerusalem, I believe angels will stay in the heavens, and the one body - those who believe the prison epistles, will dwell in glory - the place (it is a literal place) above the heavenlies. All segments will be full of life - bodies terrestial and bodies celestial. So, because of Paul's teaching, of putting aside Israel's hope, which was now in abeyance (Acts 28:28), and being given a commission by God to preach what happened and what comes next during this period of grace while Israel is "lo-ammi" - not my people - for now, Christ now functions as the head and builder of a new creation, a one body that will live in union with him as part of his body in glory in eternity, yes - people walked. Whoever heard of such a thing????

Tom, I was interested to get your take on the documentary. God truly worked through that young man. I found it interesting older men "used" him to reach out to kids and get their ministries going. Yes, what a nasty, self-righteous thing for Smith to say at his funeral - almost channeling the same spirit VP would use - it was said out of sheer jealousy. These men used him, then threw him away when they got what they wanted from him. I sometimes wonder about God's "leaders." Oh well, its a great film if anyone wants to see what us little hippies were like back then :)