Sunesis

Dan - LOL! Looks like its over then, whaddaya think? Excath - Yes, yes they do need dance lessons. Maybe hire Paula Abdul, John Travolta, or someone of that ilk to come in and give tips and routines. Maybe take a hint from Pink, Brittany, Queen Latifah (for the heavier ladies), or Madonna on how to upgrade their stage wardrobes and stage presence. I noted one spot where the close up was on D.O. and she was flanked by two singers in a lovely pink. They must hold the record for smiling. The one on the left, the blond, got distracted and her smile slowly, slowly faded. Probably wondering what to have for dinner for the family that night. Someone must have motioned to her to come back to the moment and smile, because she finally woke up and realized she wasn't smiling and slowly put it back on again. Its pretty funny - that would be hard to hold that expression for that long. I know what she was thinking about, because when my band does a song I don't like, I think about things like, oh, what should I wear to work tomorrow, or I hope I get home without a speeding ticket, what's my cat doing now, did I remember to give him his evening treat? little things like that. You zone out. It was amusing to watch.

Shaz, a "top" leader related an incident when he first found about about VP and his adulterous affairs. This leader had not been involved and was shocked to find out. He had found out from an older believer who did construction in the midwest and had a thriving business. I guess something was going on in his area with VP and someone. First, the man wrote a letter to VP confronting him and got no reply so he told the leader about it. Finally, together, the leader got VP on the phone and this gentleman was able to talk to VP. VP defended his sexual actions and that's when the man, who had been a staunch supporter of TWI and given much money, got disgusted and said that to VP.

OK, I'm back. Oh my, oh my. Those green tent dresses are, well, let's just say the wardrobe person should be M&Aed for life. Yes, when did these people get so overweight? One of the ladies in the green dress I swear was a lady named J.G. She was very skinny when I knew her, now, I really almost didn't recognize her. Ok, singing ladies of the way - D.O. I still recognized - I bet if someone told her the singing ladies would be looking like someone from Tammy Faye ministries in twenty years future, she would have been appalled. Who are the other ladies? Was one from NYC named T**dy? Their outfits - took me back to the '80s, early '90s days. Those loose outfits and huge shoulderpads - nope. We need to go modern, sleek, flair slacks, tight skirts - a trip to Lerner's New York or the Limited is in order. Let's move a head to the present decade. The guitar player is actually a rock player. He needs to really let it out and rock. Oh, they were all staged. They show the audience clapping beginning and end, but the performance was carefully videoed - not done live. Cute little two step the ladies do - I got distracted counting the beats and figureing out that move and when to shift from hip to hip when the foot turned. Well, they try. God bless 'em.

OK, you guys are a riot - I like the variety of gowns, excath - you crack me up. Socks, I'd like more Way Prod. stories. I had no idea Don was involved. I am on my way to check out that site.

My 3 cents - yes, I know you early guys spent lots of time with VP and I sometimes think he slept with every woman from corps 1-5. But I remember the 2nd and 3rd corps who used to come visit and stay at our house when VP would send them on the field - they were wonderful people. I guess I have a soft spot for the early people I got to know. You're right, some stayed nice and some changed. I guess it comes down to power corrupts and, in VP's case, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think most of the WC were way too young to have the status, power, adulation, rev. name tag, spiritual heavy status they acquired at that young an age. VP was their role model and he was a nasty guy when he wasn't wearing his public persona charm image in public. As one adult once told VP - God gave you some of the finest young men in the world and you turned them into perverts. Kind of sums a lot up.

Shaz, that was an excellent list. One of the best I've read in a long time. I think, if you were going to climb the ladder of TWI and "go to the top" - you had to become hard, an abuser and a manipulator, or else you would have been run over by someone more ruthless than you. That said, I think this began once the corps went from 20-40 people to 600. I know many early corps who were wonderful people and were loved. Its when the corps grew, and there was more competition for the few spaces at "the top," and with all these young men wanting to "prove" themselves, that it got really nasty.

Sad to say my special vibram sole lead boots have disappeared over time :(--> My Gunnison cowboy boots, I think taken back to Ireland by a corps lady. No, no more shoes from that time. However, I do have sneakers.

If I come, can I just lie out by the pool? do I have to hike?

Rascal, you made excellent points about the letter and what it meant to people. I had recently left, but I heard about the letter. I had also been under VF and he had definitely gone after CG and took all the corps with him except me and one other person. They were extremely nasty to us because we wouldn't accept CG was the MOG. Anyway, your points about how we were sold out, had been trained to be sold out and had almost NEVER, rarely ever said no to leadership were excellent. I think people like OM have no idea what the hardship of deciding what to do about the loyalty oath that LCM required did to people. Also, knowing that if you did not stay "loyal" to LCM, there goes your world, which for many of us who had entered the WC as teenaged hippies - and now were in their 30s - this was a huge deal. Then, to have to go against everything you had been taught about "commitment" to the ministry, and say - No - I cannot stand with a man. I have said before, I think God used the POP experience to open the door to get us out of TWI, and I think after three years, this demand of LCM's set the rest of the captives free.

McCarol, people here have given some great advice. For me, I realized: 1. I am not the judge of people, God is ultimately, therefore 2. Most people are nice - just chill out and live and let live; and 3. It is NOT our job to "fix" people. Neither your nor I can fix anyone, nor can they fix you. In TWI, we were basically taught that anyone outside of TWI was "the other." This is not true. We are all a part of humanity - God so Loved the world... Christ loved/loves each and every one of us and died for each and every one of us. We need to get off the high horses TWI put us on. Also, don't give anyone advice unless they ask - I know being ex-TWI that can be hard to do! People don't ask for advice unless its someone they trust and respect. I think the fact you've identified the problem is wonderful, God working on your heart to show you a problem and get you to the point you are willing to change.

Hope, great chronology for us who did not experience TWI 2, 3 and 4. Looking forward to the rest. When I first started reading trancechat and Waydale I could not believe what it had turned into years later. This is great learning for those of us who weren't there. Looking forward to the rest of the chronology.

Ya know Dot, somehow I just can't see RR taking part in anything of that nature with LCM... From what I've learned, I think LCM preferred 'em young.

I always thought LCM's behavior and total hatred of gays was very irrational and was a result of something touching him personally. As for DM, we were friends years ago. But that was then, this is now. Everyone liked her, she was a very caring, compassionate person, very empathetic to other people and their needs. Then Rosie got her hooks into her - big time change, not the same person. The change in DM was amazing. Their lives revolved around each other. As one very high up Rev. once told me, DM was more married to RR than to LCM. What does that mean? Who knows - that was just his opinion. See, we can all speculate, and that's all it is, speculation - but, from my years in TWI, the unwritten rule was, do what you like, as long as no one can prove it. If you were discreet enough, and smart enough, and with a trusted other - no one would ever know - therefore nothing could ever be proved. Of course, that was my experience. But, the fact DM is still there, is still RR's special assistant, when every other spouse in her situation would be out in a heartbeat, still raises questions in any intelligent, rational person regarding, why the special treatment - why is she still there? Why living in the WC Log Castle? [This message was edited by Sunesis on March 15, 2004 at 9:43.]

Johniam - I remember your story. It is a terrible thing what happened to you. I think you said something key when you said "I trusted the wrong people." I think that's also what happened to the other wonderful women on here. We were so trusting. It is no one's fault the person they trusted was a predator. Our innocence and trust was used and abused. It really is wicked when you think about it. Haven't we been seeing the same thing recently with the Catholic priests? These kindly, wonderful, spiritual servants of the believer communities doing their evil on the side. To me, there is no difference between them and VPW. LCM was VP's protege who carried on this evil in his generation. Vickles, yes, obviously VP was interested in you and this woman, who became your friend (probably sent to you by VP) was feeling you out. Gee, I wonder why she dropped you and you were later thrown out? Now you know why. Tell me, did she just become your friend, kind of out of the blue? All of a sudden befriended you? I do want to reiterate though, that there were early corps men and women who were not involved and truly did not know what was going on. They were decent, fine, people. I think they were probably a minority. Brady, great to see you again! I knew Brady my interim year in the corps - he was such a hunk. Still lifting weights?

Don't worry, I don't need to remove my post. Its always the same one or two people who just don't get it. I think if one of these men ever got raped, would they think they willingly allowed it to happen? Would it be their fault because they were asking for it? No, I think they'd be singing a different tune altogether. If someone has no empathy, let them remain dweebs.

Linda, I don't think anyone here is saying what we learned in PFAL, and the blessings we received from God were real, and for those of us who still believe, they are still real. But, it was God, working in spite of VPW, in our lives, I now believe. I never particularly liked VP from the first time I ever met him as a teenager, so I feel fortunate I didn't worship him or felt "honored" to be around him. I look back now and realize, he truly was a wolf in sheep's clothing who took advantage of a tremendous "revival" of God back in the late '60s, early 70s and used it for his profit. He plunderd the seeking, thirsty, young, naive newbies of Christ's flock for his own gain and lust. He packaged and marketed a product, one he had looked for, for a long time, and found his pot of gold in B.G. Leonard's class, which he then appropriated as his own, and went on to use it to make a fortune. As to his abuse of women - even if it was only one woman he ever abused - it was too much. He never repented of this evil. He continued to refine it. Like a predator, he knew who to pick out of the crowd. This is truly sick behaviour. He started having sex with underage, 16 year olds in Rye, NY. I have several woman friends in the early corps whose word and FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE I know from years of friendship to be impeccible. When I realized the extent, literally hundreds, not just corps, but women, WOWs and whoever he decided he wanted - it literally made me sick to my stomach. When I heard accounts of how, when he spotted someone he wanted, if he didn't know them well, he would send his loyal corps women to befriend them, then gradually tell the victim, what a great honor and thing it was, having sex with VP, after much pressure, and being in the corps, the person, many times would succumb. One woman told me it was disgusting and avoided him whenever possible after being "blessed" sexually by the MOG. He was a predatory pervert who liked teenage women. Once he'd had you for awhile or you were too old and the novelty wore off, you were passed around to others. I call it VP's "sex club." Now, there were also the women who wanted to be with him, the groupies. Those who wanted to "bless" the so-called man of god. Those who had such low self-esteem they thought being with this guy was wonderful - and rightly so, he made them feel wonderful, and there were perks - anyone feel like climbing the TWI ladder? Maybe ordination? I have often wondered, looking back on it, how they feel about it now. Would they gladly give their teenage daughter to him now? I think alot of it was the time, the hippie, sexual revolution. Some of these women were truly into sex for sex's sake - maybe they still are, who knows. But, there were the innocent molested victims, young, scared, and not sophisticated enough to say no to a dirty old man who wanted them. What he did was literally, criminal. When you're young you're naive - it was a different age back then, lawsuits probably wouldn't have been considered then - as VP said to them - who would believe you? Keep it lockbox girl. I know personally one woman in an early corps, who was one of my best friends. She left the corps abruptly. Even on the field people were saying awful things about her. I wondered, how could this be? Everyone loved her. She was a wonderful woman. It wasn't until years later she told me, when I ran into her what had really happened. How he had come on to her persistently. When she kept saying no, he told her to pack and get out and slandered her. I had heard rumours, but during my committed years, like you, I dismissed them. Figured people were "disgruntled." It wasn't until I was invited to his motorcoach, thinking it was an innocent get together, and having to fend him off twice, that I realized that what I heard was true. One of my best friends in the corps serviced him regularly. She was so flattered, and thought it was great - I thought she was an idiot. Later, she would service others who were teaching classes, as a favor to VP. There's more. There's so much more. I know every word Dot, ExCath and others who post their painful, personal experiences is true. I think, even if it had been caught on video, people still wouldn't believe it. For some people, denial about VP, and who and what he was, is the only shield they have. Their world and lives have been based upon him, and his teachings. I would rather know the truth. And I am thankful for people who do have the courage to share.

I too find it amazing that people aren't responsible enough to spay and neuter their pets. Someone who throws a pet out on the streets is heartless. Anyone watch Animal Cops or Animal Precinct on the Animal Planet channel? Great shows. Hopefully, the public is getting more and more aware. I almost think people should not be allowed to have an animal unless they've been screened and licensed. The horrors humans do to their animals is truly sickening.

Dot, that is one of the best, most cohesive posts I've read describing the sexual situation and goings on in TWI. This is classic and should be required reading. Thanks for sharing your heart with this.

Dot - Yeessss!!! You go! That was awesome.

If I have to do that, I'm not going! I've seen too many videos of those bungee cords breaking - those unfortunate people had no angels to keep their feet (and heads) from being dashed against a stone. When Jesus was asked by Satan to throw himself down, he said no way Jose. I will follow Christ's ensample.

Val, that sounds great - I think it would be a lot of fun. We had some wild people - interesting to see us 25 years later. Count me in. And don't worry, you 9th that we were such ensamples to - we'll take care of you...

I think I saw a guy doing that once - he's ex-TWI? I just think, with all the people, I would have run into someone over the last few years.

I work in downtown Columbus - how come I never see any ex-way people during my meanderings down High Street and cutting through CitiCenter to the parking garage?

Wow - I didn't realize it was that long! All I can say is, what a long strange trip its been. So, I guess us 7th corpse will be celebrating(?) next year. Glad we've recovered and are moving on with life. Its good to be free!

Well, I remember you guys. I was a staffer at Emporia. I loved the 11th. You guys were wonderful.