Sunesis

Sounds interesting Teachme. Pssst - check out your reputation :)

Welcome Pax! Its always nice to meet another Groovy Christian of Rye! I had just turned 16 and got the money as a birthday present to take the class with. I always enjoy other people's memories of that time. There have been some amazing threads over the years about that time and the people who were there.

So its all Ricky's fault... :) She did have a meteoric rise up the way tree - any one know how that happened? Seriously, I've always wondered how she did that. She even eclipsed Elana Wh**tesite - which was hard to do. EW was the only woman I ever heard VP publically talk about how intelligent she was and how much he respected her. She was a very intelligent woman. So, how did Rosie top that and go "to the top"? Oh, wait, let me guess... some special one on one meetings with VP?

Good Old VP and his LIberty Lobby white supremist tapes he listened too. That's why we all had to get the malpacks - the country was going to fall to the Russkies any minute! Then, he called a meeting at HQ and told us to pray, it was about to happen. When it didn't, well, he told us it was our prayers that saved the USA. I always thought he was strange, and I never bought the whole USA was about to fall. Afterwards, life went on as normal.

I guess I don't understand what the Superiority teaching is, or is about. Here, Paul is writing to the Hebrews - Jews who had accepted the Messiah, reminding them of the OT and things that happened. Israel's Hope was still the return of Christ coming in Glory if they repented. I see nothing wrong with anything written so far. Just laying out things that happened. Also, remember, the Mystery had not been revealed to Paul when this was written. At this point when Hebrews was written - it was inconceivable, no one had even imagined that Israel would reject its Messiah and His Kingdom. That was unthinkable. Of course, we know that is what happened. We also know, Israel was put aside (Acts 28 - the prophecy is repeated a third time, the first two by Jesus, now by Paul, regarding Israel, hearing they will not hear, seeing they will not see, etc.). We know after Israel was set aside, Christ is now the head of a new creation, the new "one body" and Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles of this good news. So, keep in mind, when this was written to the Hebrews - they were told, and knew according to the O.T. prophecy, that Messiah would be coming soon in glory - Paul was telling the Jews to stay strong, hang in he's coming, don't turn away. Of course, we now know, they turned away and rejected Messiah and his Kingdom. But, there is a day coming when they won't - after this parenthesis, this age of grace, is over. They will turn to him and he will come in Glory and they will step into the Revelation time period, God will deal with Jew and Gentile, and the prophecies will all be fulfilled. I think Hebrews is a wonderful book that beautifully lays out from the OT who the Messiah was, and who he was then and what he did - I think if I were a Jew reading that in that time, I may have believed that the man who my people had crucified truly was the Messiah. Paul lays out a great case. It blows my mind what he did after his resurrection as told in Hebrews. I see no superiority in this whatsover. Maybe I don't understand the superiority doctrine. Or, maybe the author of the "superiority doctrine" doesn't understand what happened and which age, or section of time, along God's timeline we are in right now.

Highway: I often came away wondering what the heck it was we had just been exposed to and why!? LOL!!! As a corps grad on staff at Emporia, watching what they were doing with the corps, I started wondering the same thing! I looked at you guys and thought you were great. I often thought you guys were smarter than the average corps bear and I often thought most corps really should have been college division. I think if TWI had pushed that, instead of corps, the ministry might still be around today doing well. You guys were allowed to come and go, no one keeping tabs, had the same classes the corps did - just a much freer lifestyle. There were some wonderful college division.

I get most of my info from non-christian, science websites. The chart I posted was from a science evolution site - and I found it fascinating, to see homonid history over millions of years mapped out, overlapping, dying out, new group here, new one there - was something experimenting? What was going on? To see it is to go, this is strange - you wonder, spiritually, what was happening? But I find geology, archeology, timelines - they're all there to see and most scientists do agree. They know, from the geological record, there was the, what I'll call, first period of life - small organisms. That ended. Then, all of a sudden, came the "Cambrian Explosion" - or, the big bang, so to speak, of life as we know it now. So, if there was a judgment and the earth was in and out of the waters in Gen 1:2 - when did this happen in the fossil record? If there was a later, Noah's flood - where is it in the fossil record? Can science and what the Bible tells us fit? Maybe. Its up to us to take the evidence and figure things out. The Book of Job - read it from a geologist/meteorologist point of view - we know he was very close to Noah after the flood. Look at what it says about the geology, the land, the weather - what does he say about the men who "live in caves"? Interesting stuff. Lots of other cool stuff. I was always very interested in man, where did he come from, evolved, created - what? Timelines of hominid/homo sapiens are fascinating. How do they fit in with the geologic timeline? Lot's of neat things if you we to know. But, I do go with science on universe/earth age and how it formed.

Ok gentlemen, maybe its not your fantasy, but in polls - it is for many men. Who do you think is watching the hot girl on girl action porn? Its not really the ladies. But, I did read somewhere that is men's no. 1 fantasy (except for TWI men :)) Whatever, let's move on... From what I've read, there are some questionable female couples at HQ now. But I bet there are no questionable male couples.

I think it had to do with what part of the country the logs were grown in. Just like some plants can only live in some areas, the same with logs. If they had used logs native to a hot, humid area, the Chalet probably would have been ok. But I was told, transporting colorado logs from that climate - which is cool and dry, to Ohio climate, was not a smart thing to do.

I was in that corps group that spent the night there when it was done. We got the usual, it was for us and whatever else they said. I always felt it was a shame it was never used for the corps like they told us. I have to wonder now, looking back, if the whole - its for the corps routine - was a lie, they knew it was going to be for VP, but because of IRS regs or something, they came up with a cover story - that it was for the corps. I think now, that it was never intended to be for the corps.

Yes I'm for real, why? What did I say that most earlier corps pretty much didn't know? Oh yes, JM - everytime she was allowed to speak, her first words were - Hi! I'm JM and I was a lesbian but I'm delivered" as we all rolled our eyes and snickered and thought, why sure you are sweetie - NOT!

Skyrider - excellent point about the region, and even the limb leaders having all the names and addys. I know here in Ohio, they've kept their thing going for years now.

I don't know how it is there currently, but when I was there, late '70s - early to mid '80s, it always seemed to me, that, if it were men who were doing it, or caught, it was not tolerated. I think male homosexuality still would not be tolerated today. But, since women/women is the no. 1 male fantasy, I think women were given a pass. If you couldn't prove it, or didn't get caught, I think there were a few couples. In fact, I think there were some who were/are openly gay among the "top" leadership, JM and her girls come to mind. All the gay girls seemed to be really good friends with top female leadership. DM would encourage women in residence to sleep with each other - platonically of course. I always thought that was so weird - but it was sanctioned by VP. So, concerning women, I think Don't Ask, Don't Tell was the norm. Unless you made it obvious to the regular joe believer. I can think of one relationship that went on and another leader found out and it was broken up but the ladies were never fired. There was a double standard. Men - hell no - don't even think about it. Women, ok, just be discrete. At least, that's the way it was when I was there.

LOL!! They couldn't even make the bed correctly to satisfy their mom - what did please her? anything?

Skyrider, I think you gave a very good reason. LCM never did go on the "field." I know in NYC, VF had been in NY for awhile, so everyone just kind of gravitated towards him. All he had to do was have some large limb meetings and advances and it was easy for the people - they basically did the same things they always did, just didn't hear from HQ anymore. Same with the guys in Ohio (Merrill, Townsend, Burke, Wajnberg, Wrens, Clark and others) - they all had built a reputation over the years and people willingly followed. LCM never had a field following. All my years with TWI, I never heard of LCM or his wife ever winning anyone. They'd travel around, visit, you would think they would have set the example for others to follow and won someone. Did you ever notice the "leadership" from HQ never witnessed? I guess they figured they paid their dues, were in top positions, and - what did they care? I remember one time VP said some of them should go on the field and they started quaking in their boots. The whole TWI would be watching if they could win people and run back to back classes - you know darn well they couldn't. Sometimes, while in residence, it was amazing to hear people being groomed for leadership in TWI, sent on the field their interim year give excuses why they couldn't get classes together. I think LCM was lots of talk, as were others. The field guys, who liked being on the field, and spent years there, were actually pretty good at it.

Hello What About It :) I know when I left TWI, I took a nice long break from the Bible and eventually started reading things I found interesting. Although, when I look back, I'd get an idea, a thought, start reading and over the years its been interesting to look back and see how God has taught me - His own things He wanted to teach me - not what TWI wanted to teach me. Its been a wonderful journey. But, hey, if you don't want to touch the bible for the next 10 months or 10 years - do what you need to do for you. But, as to your question, a few years ago I started wondering too. So, I guess I have to go with, what is called in theological circles, the "Gap Theory." I believe you have Gen 1:1 - perfect earth, perfect heavens, perfect spiritual beings. Gen 1:2 - earth "becomes" without form and void (in Isaiah it also says I did not form it without form and void). I believe the darkness was God's judgment for Satan's attemped overthrow. I believe from Gen. 1:2 on, God then begins to restore the earth. I feel dinosaurs were after the restoration of the earth, but before man. But, there are also other speculations that they were before the judgment and darkness of Gen 1:2 and not on the newly restored earth. If so, what they were and why - also has some curious answers, but that's for another thread. I believe the earth is 4 billion or so years old, as are angels and whatever else was there. You had the first flood, or judgment of Gen 1:2, then it was restored. This all took time - billions of years. As for modern "man" as we know him - I don't believe in a 6,000 year timeline. That came about, as another poster mentioned by one person a few centuries ago who decided to add up years in the Bible - and was wrong. There are various reasons, but, that's another thread. I do believe we need to make a distinction between modern man and "homonids" - which is what all the ancient skeletons are, like Lucy, cavemen, etc. - the humanoid type beings which preceded modern man as we know him. Homonids have been found as far back as 4 million years ago. There were many different types. They came, they went, new ones pop up - if you see them charted - its fasciniating. I'll post the pic I'm thinking of. All different types at all different times, it looks like someone or something was "experimenting." Anyway, Homonids - various types - lived right up until neanderthal man. I believe, hominds - including neaderthal and cro-magnon - were very similar to us - modern humans - but were not us - of modern homo sapiens - humans. Just like chimpanzees are 99.98, or some amazingly close number to us humans, the same DNA as us - but they are different - you would not call chimps human. I think hominids were more like various types of apes, monkeys, chimps and were not related to humans and we are not descended from them. I think the last of the hominids were wiped out during the flood of Noah or in the last ice age. I think humans - as we know them have been around since about 100,000 to 50,000 years ago. I know scientists trace the modern human "Eve" DNA to about that time - we all came from one "mother." Also, as to Adam and Eve - just as Jesus Christ was inserted into mankind, into man's history 2000 years ago, I have often wondered if Adam was also inserted into mankind. That would explain why there were other people around when Cain was thrown out of the Garden. As to dinosaurs, they could have lived either time really - before the "restoration" or since the earth's restoration. There's an excellent Christian Ph.D. Biophysisist named Hugh Ross who has a great website discussing things like this scientifically. I've read some of his books. As I said, he's a scientist, not a "young earth" creationist and is great to read. He may help answer some of your questions. Below is the Hominid chart. click and it will enlarge and you can see how varied they were.

Somehow I ended up walking behind VP as he was going to the big tent to begin the WOW training. He asked someone how many there were and he was told the real number. He was very po'ed that they didn't have 4,000. I forget exactly what he said, but I remember thinking, shouldn't you be grateful for the ones you have?

I will still never understand VP and his hold on people. I guess I was one of the few people in TWI who did not personally like him. Even from the first time I met him in Rye at Tim Bishop's house when he drove in from HQ on his bike. There was just something that almost made me physically sick being around him. I told this feeling to another leader there and was told I had a spiritual problem and to, politely told, get over it. So, it was the Bible I wanted to learn, so I ignored him, even in the corps and avoided him as much as possible which was very easy to do with the hundreds of corps by the time I was there. I wonder why it was so important for Donna her to "prove" to VP she wasn't a "traitor." I think people who worshipped him or would die for him, had some serious father/abandonment/need for attention issues.

Its Peta Wilson who played Nikita from the tv series "La Femme Nikita." She's not looking too good these days though ...

Judas Priest - Run for the Hills - you're Breakin' the Law!!! I would have skipped a session to go see them too...

Chas - LOL!!!!! Actually, alas, I cannot show you my Girl Scout card because I got thrown out. Yes I did. I did earn quite a few merit badges though :) Teachme, I was at the fellowship where that pic of Kris was taken and put on the cover of Life. I was with two of my high school friends, we were in Tim Bishop's living room and the photographer was snapping away while Steve Heefner was teaching. I was sitting just 2 or 3 people away from Kris. We all thought we'd be in Life Magazine!!!! You must realize, that back then, being in Life is like an appearance on American Idol today - it was a huge deal. It was America's magazine. Imagine everyone's disappointment when none of us except Kris were in the pics. I think there were a couple of other shots from the living room twig, but none of most of the fellowship. Also, remember, those "little" twigs routinely had 30 or more kids crammed in the living room, so there was lots to photograph. I keep meaning to respond to your doctrinal thread, I will. Its just been busy. Oh, yes, my avatar scares the guys and keeps them in line down in the basement in the political forum :)

Ahh... Those two names are a blast from the past Socks! I didn't know you were a fisher - and didn't know St. Mary's lake had catfish. Sounds like you had some fun times. Its always interesting, all the things staffers did, apart from their jobs, that HQ or leadership never knew about. Sounds like we both operated on the same principle (as taught to my by J# B#lt early in my corps training): Its easier to get forgiveness then to get permission. I traveled a long ways on that proverb.

Cool - it wasn't just me. I thought maybe I was being punished or something :( I just gave you a boost Wordwolf!

So where did the little green plus "reputation" button go in my own posts? Does this mean someone can't give me a little green thingie anymore if they like my post? I can see it in other people's posts, but not mine :(

Yes Socks! That was it. I loved that lake, plus it had a lovely huge park all around it. I really liked it a lot better than Lake St. Marys and it was less crowded.