Sunesis

Bob, that's what I'm saying, but with the two main obstacles out of the way, the provisions can easily be voted upon and changed by the BOD.

No, Donna will never take a public position. She could have but does not want the pressure or responsibility - i.e., having to answer to the peons, er, followers. She likes to stay behind the scenes and "whisper in the King's ear" - a phrase they used to use. In other words, she wants the power and authority, but does not want to be up front in public - lest she screw up publically, or have to take any responsibility or blame for anything, i.e., she has no cujones to be an upfront leader. She prefers to hide behind others therefore she has to answer to no one and is not accountable to the people. Actually, kind of a cushy job now that I think about it. She's the smartest one of the bunch. No wonder her and Rosie make a great team - Rosie loves the upfront "glory" and Donna, whispering in her ear, and anyone else's who's in power. Together, they make a great team at moving the Word. I have a feeling their time is coming to an end though. TWI is slowly dying off, like the Shakers and Quakers did. Soon, there will be one 100 year old lady knitting in her rocking chair because everyone died off and they never could get new people.

Yes, but the two main obstacles are out of the way. VP is dead and LCM is in exile. The current BOD are made up of her lapdogs. There is no one to stop her or tell her what to do. Therefore, she will stay there just as long as she darn wants to. No one can make her do otherwise. And she will be supported. Can you see Harve disagreeing with anything she wants to do? No way.

What was little Clarita doing in a Philipine prison anyway?

That's great news! Tell her "li'l bit" says hello!

Yes Rascal, it was the ultimate betrayal. I told MF to his face, her blood was on his head. My parents lived in Columbus. While I was on staff I went to visit, they had saved the Columbus Dispatch newspaper article about her death. If we knew the date, maybe they'd have it in their archives? I still pass by that hotel almost every day, its on a busy intersection. Its changed hands and names several times since then. Its also true, the pain pills she took were powerful. The sad thing was, she had been feeling better before they threw her out, that's why she had enough pills left to put herself to sleep. RIP Rochelle - until the return.

So Washingtonweather, the 11th WC had no clue? You were never told? Woah...

I don't know if there was a service or memorial. I was at H.Q. It was pretty much hushed up at H.Q. Maybe there was a lunch announcement? I really don't remember. My memory may be wrong, but I don't think there was any kind of service. It wasn't spoken about. Maybe her brother did something. He was absolutely devasted. I have thought of and prayed from him over the years.

Who was Rochelle? She was the little sister to one of the TWI reverends. Rochelle's family immigrated from Russia. They grew up in Chicago, I think - no father, mother in and out of institutions. From what Rochelle told me, her mother had severe psychiatric problems. Her brother was much older and had grown and left home and she was left alone with mom. From what she told me, it was a terribly unhappy situation. Growing up was hard. She was very shy and reserved until you got know her. I first met her when she was still in High school during the summer at H.Q. She was visiting. So shy she wouldn't really talk to anyone. I again met her when she went in the corps and I was on staff. She remembered me from that summer at H.Q. I took her under my wing, we became friends. We spent many hours discussing things, her life, what she wanted to do with her life. She really blossomed in the corps. She had finally found the family she so desparately wanted. Being young (18-19), she had also discovered BOYS!!!! She was a typical young woman seeing the possibilities and potentials life had to offer, with a family (corps) for the first time in her life. She was growing up, had come out of her shell and loved God with all her heart. There was something about her that drew others to her. She had a great sense of humor and was a loving young lady. She was growing up. Her world was shattered when they threw her out. Who was she? A wonderful young woman, loved by her brother, others and God. No different than any of us really.

Yes, let's agree to disagree. Some people will see it one way, some others. No sense arguing over it. Instead I am very "blessed" that HCW has chosen to share his story with us and lay out the truth of what happened. For those of us who knew Rochelle, let's not forget the purpose of this thread was to memorialize her and others who were hurt in this terrible accident - to pay homage to a dear sister who eventually did not make it. And, I think we can see the far reaching consequences of it in the people's lives who were there. I would like to again thank HCW for his courage in stepping up to share this with all of us, not just a few trusted friends.

It seems to me, most of the ones deemed "weak" were those who were high spirited kids, those a bit outside of the "9 dots." They were those who wouldn't fit into TWI's 9 dots. They were not good TWI stepford wives. I was asked several times by high up leadership when I would walk and fit into the 9 dots. I would think to myself, probably never... TWI's attitude of sending people off to areas or doing challenges because they wanted to see if it would make them or "break" them is truly reprehensible. They should have been thankful for what they had instead of seeing who they could destroy and throw out. Anyone in my book, who gave up their "normal" life to do the corps had something wonderful in them. Of course, what TWI perverted that goodness into in many of them is another story. Keep sharing HCW.

Yes, LCM did ride the bulls - I'm pretty sure more than one time. He hurt and screwed up his back because of it - although he didn't tell many people that. He did tell me that little tidbit though.

Satori, your analysis is just excellent. Especially why, in the situation HCW was is, one wouldn't question the leader. See, leaders did and took, dumbsh#t risks like this all the time. It was nothing new. Also, what kind of medical care did RW and others get? I knew RW was recuperating at Emporia and was so glad when I finally got to see her at H.Q. But the victims were kept kind of incommmunicado. I would imagine the leadership to their faces seemed kind and caring and concerned - why? So there would be no lawsuits. But I doubt any of them cared about these "losers" who screwed up their LEAD experience by their lack of believing. By the way, HCW, did Donnie stay on there? Were there any repercussions for him?

Thank you HCW. Please continue - this is the first time I've ever heard the details.

I believe CG has a very sadistic mean streak. I saw him verbally devastate a young woman from Europe during corps week at HQ one year. She had had a bit too much to drink one evening, as they had been celebrating another European believer's wedding. The party, after the wedding went to a local St. Mary's watering hole that evening. She was pretty plastered and didn't want to leave the place so they just left her at this bar. I was out that night at the same bar, and waited until closing to bring her home to H.Q. I was not going to leave her with the townies leering at her. I don't know who told on her - probably some of the wedding party people who left her, but PL and I were told the next day to be in the courtyard of VP's house the next morning. I went there clueless, and there she was with CG, her leader, and PL, the corps coordinator at that time. Well, first CG yelled, then lowered his voice and hissed saying awful, sick, destructive stuff about this woman. The thing was though, usually, people calm down after a few minutes, but he ended up going on and on and on, and literally hissing at her for almost 45 minutes. I started wondering, what the heck is going on here? All of a sudden it dawned on me, he is enjoying this!! I watched in horrified fascination. I have never, in all my years in TWI, seen someone as verbally torn down as this woman was - it was evil, just plain evil. Even PL was mortified - and she's hard to do that to. After it was over, the woman went away in tears and PL took me aside and said, go talk to her. I looked at her incredulously and said, what could anyone possibly say to her. She told me to go talk, then send her over to PL at noon. I spent the morning with her, got her back to some semblance of normalcy, then PL took over. They became great friends. Anyway, I was glad I never had to serve under him, and was glad God let me see the sick side of him about a year before POP. I got in TWI in Rye when he did, and he was my limb leader in college. He was always cold, unfriendly and aloof. Why did he get worse? Well, it was always in him, it just took a mentor to bring it out. I always think of a hissing snake when I think of him.

HCW, I was a very good friend of RW. What they did to her was unconsionable. DW was not truthful. She did not have a guy in the room with her. She took her bottle of pain pills. She was thrown out of the corps, left with another guy, went to the limb of Indiana, they didn't want her around. She was supposed to drive east by herself to her brother's in CT. She was devasted. She had a history of suicide. How they could chew her out, kick her out, then the limb let her go - boggles my mind. She got as far as Columbus, OH (the boy she dropped off at the Indiana limb was from KS). Since we were close, he told me the next year at the rock exactly what happened. Anyway, she goes to the hotel right here on Rt. 33 and Grandview and committed suicide with her bottle of pain pills (she still had great pain from the LEAD accident) in room 34, I believe it was. I think of her everytime I see that place. There was an article about it in the Columbus Dispatch. My parents asked me about it. If it makes you feel any better, when I learned the news, the next day after lunch I pulled MF (the corps coordinator aside), and asked him how he could have let her go like that? They knew her history. He didn't seem too perturbed. I was very angry, looked him in the eye and said, her blood is upon your head, and then walked away. He never would talk to me after that.

You're right, Mark, maybe "white supremist" was too strong a term. Liberty Lobby has a whole hodgepodge of groups unders its umbrella. I tend to think it was the conspiracy theories VP was really interested. Nice post and concepts socks! Hope R - I've read about that book, I must read it.

Yes, HCW, I remember how he talked about how he hated blacks because one had killed his brother (hit and run I think?). He talked about how it was Claudette who changed his attitude. Exie, I think it was both - birds of a feather flock together. LCM may have been leader but CG was probably VP's best friend - I almost think moreso than HA, CG took HA's place, they were "peas in a pod." I think they both had this interest, discovered it and went on from there.

I used to visit HQ in '71 while still in high school, we had moved from NY to Columbus, so it was an easy trip. We knew people there, would hang out in friends' units, etc. I had seen some spotlight magazines at one time - I forget exactly where or when - they were more like large pamplets. That's why when we got our new "secret constitutions" and there was the Spotlight subscription form, I thought, oh - nothing really about it, but oh, yeah, I've seen this before. I think Igotout put a copy of the back cover here in a thread once - I think he still has his also. I had always wondered where VP got all this "top secret" "heavy" government info he only shared in the advanced class. It wasn't until I read the book years later on staff that everything fell into place. Also, quite a few of his top guys were avid readers of Soldier of Fortune Magazine - you know survival stuff, etc. I read it for awhile on the recommendation of one Rev. while on staff at hq. VPs bodyguards were sent for training at one of these militia camps in the southwest. I know they were thrown out of one, and ended up training at another. Just, a lot of b.s. stuff went on.

Watered Garden, yes, let's not forget some of the women clergy could be just as bad as the men or worse. I have to know, what's was Ms. 4th's initials? I knew them all, I could make some guesses. Johnny Lingo - you were one of the nicest, sweetest men I knew with a huge wonderful, kind heart for people. You were just a big loving person who played harmonica and wanted to serve God, so don't take it personally when I too wondered how in the heck you got ordained! You were not of that ilk at all, and still aren't. Your story of your ordination under the big tent has to be one of the funniest things I ever heard - you should share it if you feel so inspired.

Wordwolf, to answer your questions, why yes, yes I do. George - thanks. While on staff at HQ, as an avid reader, I had found a great book at a bookstore on the subject of these groups - it was an eyeopener. It was about these groups in general and how the government was going after them - a lot was in there on the Liberty Lobby. I started putting it together on staff. That's when I casually asked my friend who worked with him and in the home if she had ever heard of Liberty Lobby. She said sure, VP gets his tapes and has the hotline he calls. I casually thanked her and thought, now I get it... Oldies, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... I know, we went around this before, we both disagree. We probably always will.

Every corps, especially with the 6th, once the ranks swelled from a handful to the hundreds, had a few guys who were kind of picked, and were being "groomed" to be leaders. They were in every corps, we all knew who they were. To a young man, this can really swell the ego. Many of these people became top rated jerks. But, most of the corps, those who would be twig leaders, those who were not picked - the vast majority, who had no aspirations to "top" leadership, were some of the finest people I have ever met. The majority were fine people. Those who were entranced with the dangling carrot, the brass ring, of eventually reaching "Rev." status, would do pretty much anything. Many of them put on quite an act. I think it all came down to who was chosen, and who wanted the title "rev." bad enough. The Rev. carrot is very important, because that was the top, and that was what many young men strived for. I cannot tell you what an impetus that was for so many men - and they would do whatever it took to get it. Also, after graduating from the 7th, I was on staff at Emporia. I got to watch the evolution of the corps program. By the time the 12th corps got there, I felt truly sorry for them and did everything in my power to make their lives easier. But it was out on the field when the graduated 13th corps arrived. I was shocked. These were the corps who had been trained totally under LCM after VP died. The legalism and corps nazism really was true. I really could not comprehend what had happened. One guy, I finally told him, stick your idiotic "reproof" where it don't shine, you have no idea what you're talking about, and I told him I wanted nothing to do with him anymore and would not help him - I was not going to church with him. I think 13th corps was a pivotal corps, as far as the nastiness really coming to the forefront - courtesy of LCM as he descended into his darkness. They simply reflected him. Just my 2 cents.

I've posted this before, but will do so in condensed form. Why did VP have this stuff? Because he was a member of the Liberty Lobby, which also printed a magazine called the Spotlight. The Liberty Lobby is an organization based in Washington D.C. that is a political "front" for White Supremist groups. It is the "respectable" political umbrella for these various white supremist organizations. 7th corps, remember our "secret constitution" that was passed out to us? I still have it. Right on the inside back cover is an order form to subscribe to the Spotlight and membership in the Liberty Lobby. All his advanced class tapes regarding the Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, etc. - the "heavy" stuff that was taught, were tapes that came from the Liberty Lobby. VP also had a "hotline" number he could call with all the latest conspiracy updates. This came straight from someone who worked closely with him. Remember Malpack? Head for the hills? We must stand or our country is going to fall? All this was brought to you courtesy of the Liberty Lobby. VP then taught it and acted like it was his revelation. Remember the Jim Jones suicides, how it was really done by the government, etc.? Thank you Liberty Lobby! Remember when Wheaties Box and Olympic star Bob Richards came to speak to us at corps week one year? Gee, he was the Populist Party (they are the political arm of the Liberty Lobby) presidential candidate that year - what a coincidence he would take time out of his busy schecule to talk to us and schmooze with VP. Those of you who have those books, one of them, the Myth of the 6 million, or 13th Tribe is only published by the Liberty Lobby's bookstore. VP was a white supremist, but it was not something he spoke about in public. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Research the Liberty Lobby.

I knew her very well. CF is one of those people who managed to be at TWI, but kept one foot in reality. We were always cracking jokes about the boneheaded leadership at HQ - no one was immune. I think she probably just felt like going to a movie - something not so PG and TWI approved.

Houseisarockin - I'm game! Listening to doubletongued wayspeak, after being out for so long is truly bizarre. They really do have their own little language. Try talking like that at work! See what happens...