Sunesis

JK - awesome info, you left me hanging - please continue!

Gillian, first accept my apology for coming down a bit hard on you in another thread! It was more the tone of the thread I was annoyed with. Anyway, I'd respond. I'd respond lovingly, tell her it was wonderful to hear from her. I'd then tell her how blessed your life is, maybe some major things going on. Let her see you are not a greasespot. I'd also tell her, you are blessed being a member of the whole Body of Christ, and how much there is, and you cannot limit yourself to one tiny organization anymore (where in the Bible does it say TWI is the one and only true Christian organization?) I'd also tell her, since neither of you are planning to die soon, perhaps she could come visit you now (get her on your turf) before the Bema - why does she want to wait until the Bema? There's plenty of time to visit now, in our earthly bodies. That may make her think a bit. I'd also maybe say, at this point, there is nothing TWI could possibly offer you, its had its run, time to move on. Its kind of like, remember McDonalds when it first started out? It was a tiny little drive in. As us babyboomers grew up and changed, so did McDonald's. As we got older, they added seats indoors, when we had kids, they added playgrounds, then they made really fancy ones. TWI has not gotten past the drive-in stage, and never will.

Very nice analysis excie! - Excellent. LOL!

What my3cents said! Both of us being from the same area, NYC and its suburbs was hit very hard by the "hippie" revolution and all the pyschedelia that came with it. Much more so than the midwest. We were rebelling against the "lifestyle" our parents had. In the NY area, dad leaves, takes the train to work, we pick him up at night, comes home, has a drink, reads the paper, mom cooks - great wonderful stuff, except it was so boring, in fact you could tell it was a grind for the fathers who commuted everyday - and it seemed endless and we were doomed to repeat it. The Hippie thing opened a way out, was a form of rebellion against being a "corporation man." But, those of us in NY and Rye did have an excellent role model - Steve and Sandy Heefner. They were incredible, loving and it really was, their minstry. Those of us back then in Rye in the early days didn't have to deal with VP - except on his occassional visits. It was a movement of Christ in all of us, with the Heefners gently guiding us along. It was around '71-72 that VP made his power grab, took the money, and drove the Heefners out. If TWI hadn't have been so "loose" it never would have survived. I went to Sunday school, and stuff for teenagers occassionally at my local church - boring!!!! I rarely went, and these were good people leading us. God rose up certain people for our generation, for which I am grateful. We stayed too long at VP's party.

JK, I really enjoy your posts. I do have one question, all these things VP did, and the obvious combination of Hermeticism and other things, and his programs, and how he manipulated - where do you think he learned how to do this? Did he make a conscious effort from the beginning? Go out and read books on brainwashing techniques? Or did all of this just come naturally. I'd like to hear your opinion on how he did this. I ask, because he just doesn't seem smart enough to do all of this in a conscioius manner. So. where'd he get it?

Johnny Lingo - thank's for the kind words. Yeah, I never was a mean corps person, I liked talking with and helping people. When I was on staff at Emporia, that meant, taking the poor corps in residence off grounds to just give them a break, hanging with them in the staff tv lounge (one night, there must have been 25 staff and guests in that little room all watching tv. We all fell asleep and woke up in time for breakfast - it was strange seeing 25 sleeping bodies on the floor, couches and chairs), special trips to the snack shop - (I guess I'm not the only one who knew how to break in!), or just hanging out. I was always of the school who's philosophy was, it is easier to get forgiveness than to get permission. It served me well. I remember DM asking me once why I didn't stay within the 9-dots. I humbly told her I'd try, but inside, was glad I wasn't fitting into the mold. Of course, that's probably why I always remained a lowly twig coordinator - which was just fine by me. I would rather be friends with people than an overlord. HCW, I was on staff with you 11th corps. You guys were probably my favorite corps ever, and I knew most people in all the corps. You guys were awesome, I really missed you when you all left for your interim year.

Igotout - what a great pic! Does bring back memories - where was I??? I've been in many a wonderful fellowhip just like that one!

After plowing through the "teaching," all I can think of is, god, what a drama queen! And not just CG, who is a manipulator and a divider, but it seems there was always some kind of "drama" going on at TWI. Thank God I don't have to deal with this bull anymore. I always too though it was a power play, pure and simple. The two massive egos going at each other.

Thanks My3cents and Socks. I totally understand, being a tense situation, CG's paranoia, etc., it probably wouldn't have been wise to rock the boat righ there. I have a feeling, if there was nothing to be done to legally remove the Trustees, well, there really wasn't much that could have been done was there? People kept their dignity and just walked. I still feel CG was used like God used Pharoah - his actions opened the door for the mass exodus of us "oldsters." I would imagine, if they were like me, this had been something working on their hearts for a long time. That's why we all went en masse. I really think it was a move of God to get us out. I tried talking to the new young corps guys. They were LCM men all the way - and were going to follow no matter what - their take was, he's a great guy, just going through some tough times, we are committed and will follow him. After talking to the second young man, I realized, you know, they are exactly where I was at when I was in my late teens, early 20s, you couldn't have told me anything. So, I gave up. I see the Allen lawsuit as the open door for that younger generation to leave. Regarding CG's franchise, someone once posted on here a long time ago about how much money they lost doing this. I guess its keeping him in the money though.

Poor choice of words. I know the Liberty Lobby didn't write it. They distributed it. Also JK, the books carried in the bookstore that caused so much consternation - The Myth of the Six million, The Thirteenth Tribe, etc. were only carried and distributed by one organization - who else - Liberty Lobby. He did his best to indoctrinate to the white supremist, conspiracy way of thinking.

JkBoehme, I don't know ifyou know this, but VPW was a member of the Liberty Lobby. I still have my "Secret Constitution" written by the Liberty Lobby VPW distributed to the 5th and 7th corps, with the full page ad on the inside back page to subscribe to the Spotlight - the Liberty Lobby's magazine. All of VP's advanced class teachings, the illuminati, CRF, Trilateral commission, etc. came from the Liberty Lobby tapes he'd get. Of course, us TWIers thought it was all special "inside info" we were "spiritually heavy" enough to handle - sheesh. Also, the 1976 "U.S. is going to fall" scare VP perpetuated on us also came from them. My friend who worked very closely with VP at HQ, when I asked her, told me VP had a "hotline" he'd call for updated Liberty Lobby news. The info VP played to us in the corps after the Jonestown suicides, on how Jonestown was really a CIA coverup - again, tape courtesy of Liberty Lobby. VP had Bob Richards come talk to us at corps week, 1984. Usually, a "famous" celebrity is lauded to the skies. So I wondered where Richards came from, out of the blue. It was after I left TWI that I learned he was the Populist Party (the Liberty Lobby's political party arm) presidential candidate. Now you know, VP must have had some clout with the Liberty Lobby to get Richards to a cornfield to speak to the corps. I had realized when I was in TWI that VP had Liberty Lobby connections, because when I would visit HQ when I was still in high school in the early '70s, I had seen some spotlight magazines lying around. It wasn't until years later on staff I read a great book, called, I think, Armed and Dangerous, that gave the history of the Liberty Lobby and an overview of various white supremist movements, that I put it all together - aha! It was quite a moment when it fell together for me - I was still on staff at HQ. I thought, so that's where VP gets his "inside" info - that everyone else thought was special revelation from God. We were suckered! That's when I casually asked my friend if she had seen any Liberty Lobby materials or Spotlight magazines around (this was around '82 or so). She said, oh yeah, and he also has the special hotline he calls into to stay updated and get information. She thought nothing of it. Nor did most people - they had no idea what it was.

Let's get back on topic. This thread was going great. Raf, what was CG's mid nineties meltodown?

Great post Socks! One of the things that always got me during this time, and you mentioned it, was that there were never any specifics. The BOT had to repent, 80% of the corps were possessed, we had to "change." Everyone had to change their wrong ways. Well, WHAT WAS BEING DONE WRONG????? CHANGE WHAT????? Specifics please. Just being told to "change," "get right with God," without ever being told specifics is just stupid. CG was a divider and a manipulator. He swoops out of Gartmore to H.Q. Tells everyone they're messed up, but doesn't say in what way, just everyone has to get back to the Word, and leaves in a huff. He came a couple of times, delivered a message, then does a dissappearing act - runs back to Gartmore. I got tired of it. Literally, he'd come to H.Q. during corps week, read POP, then two minutes later, he's left the building, gone. He was a poser and a game player - head games. People fell for it. Then at the clergy meeting he calls, he makes sure everyone sees his .45 he places in the podium while he's getting ready to speak. A paranoid nutcase. I've often wondered, why didn't the clergy stand up and tell him to stuff it, and go disappear. I've never seen anyone so intimidate the clergy as he did. What were they afraid of? It was posturing, threats, and intimidation on CG's part under the guise of "spirituality." I was VP's friend, I know inner secrets, you don't, do as I say, if you don't, I'll humiliate you publically. Why wasn't there a clergy uprising?

My father was 10th Mountain Division in WWII. They are now rangers. They trained the the rockies in Colorado at Camp Hale, near Vail. They trained in the mountains in the cold - it was greuling. Sking, mountain climbing, etc. They were trained to fight the Nazis in the alps. They were the mountain "ski troops." They fought in the Italian alps. One of their big battles in Italy is where they had to silently climb up the mountian using ropes and take out the Germans on the top of the ridge. Can you imagine moving an army up a moutain silently in the dark? Their history is fascinating. Most of the ski moutains and resorts in Colorado were started by enterprising 10th Mountain men after the war. The 10th is now a Ranger unit. My father is very proud of his service. Your son should be proud too.

Well Dan, its the only way I can describe it and exactly what it seemed like to me at the time - he was hissing and spitting out his words very softly - but they were terribly hurtful to this woman. As I said, PL and I were almost entranced watching this. I have always thanked God he showed me CG's other side, so when he attempted to take all the corps and believers with him after POP (which he did very successfully in NYC), I was the only one who told everyone - don't follow him. I was ostracized for it by VF and all of the NYC corps, and as word got around, the rest of the NY State corps. Oh well.

I knew him in Rye, when he was limb leader of Massachusetts, in the corps, and after I graduated. He was always very cold and aloof. My defining moment with him came when he verbally, totallly destroyed a female European corps grad early one morning during corps week. To make a long story short, she had done something "wrong" the evening before and I was told to be at VPW's courtyard at 7:00 a.m. with her, Pat Lynn, and CG. What she had done, was not a big deal, but he tore into her. Now, usually when you yell at someone, you eventually calm down eventually - not him. He kept going, and going, and going, then his voice softened and he was speaking, but it was literally a hissing type speech - he was hissing at her. I kept thinking, he's acting like a snake! And he kept going, and going... I thought to myself, what is going on here? In a flash, the thought came to me - he's enjoying this. Whoa! That's why he's not stopping, he really is enjoying this! I watched in horrified fascination. After about 40 minutes, he finally stopped and sent her away in tears. PL and me looked at each other like WTF???!!! She was as horrified as I was. She told me to go after her and talk to her, then send her to PL at noon. I said, how can anyone possibly repair this?? But I did and spent the morning with her, and got her feeling better and then sent her to PL. What I saw, was a sadistic sob. I had heard rumors he was part of the "sex club" as I call it and very into sadistic type things. Anyway, I was horrified, but I feel God showed me this snake like side of him for a reason. I have never seen anyone emulate and imitate his "master" (VPW) as much as I did CG - it was sheer idolitry. I think CG was truly the only friend VPW - had, and no wonder - birds of a feather flock together don't they? They did understand each other - to the core. Also, CG was not ordained until after he graduated after he had been VP's driver for awhile. It was done privately after a SNS I believe. As I was on staff at the time, I heard that instead of a solemn affair, they both laughed and giggled the whole way through it. Strange. I do believe though, just as God used Pharoah to let his people go, God used CG to open the floodgates for the first exodus by those of us who had grown up, were now in their thirties and were starting to see through the BS and tired of the heavy rules and regs that were inflicted on the WC. Sadly, the new, younger generation didn't see it, they were LCM men and considered us "oldsters" as out of touch. I think God used the Allen lawsuits 10-12 years later to open the doors for those youngsters, who had now grown up, to get them out. As for CG's appearance changing, it doesn't surprise me. If you read about mediums, many times, as they talk, the "spirit guide" will take over their face and it will change. Others call it "shape shifting." Whatever it is, I believe its spiritual - and God sometimes shows us this as a warning - look out! This is what's really behind this person. Well, I guess he's making his money on all the suckers who still think he's a spiritual heavy and has the truth as taught by VP.

I knew him when he was our lowly branch leader in Col. Ohio. He and his wife Arlene were wonderful people. He was full of life, a real jokster and had a lot of love for people - they were just great people. One of my close relatives went in the corps when he was coordinating Rome City. She too had known him very wall in Col. He started giving her attitude, she just looked at him and said, don't pull this stuff on me buster! After that, he was fine with her, the old TJ she had known. I too heard nothing but bad things about him while I was on staff. I think he was another example of how TWI totally corrupted their young leadership, and how heardhearted they had to become to be noticed and rise up in the organization. Give TJ a few years out, like others who slowly revert back to their "true" selves and drop the false "I am a great spiritual man of god" false persona they all put on out of necessity to survive TWI in a high position, its interesting to watch people become their "real" selves again - the way they were before TWI. Hopefully the same will happen with him.

Good analysis JK. I know VP really did think he was "special" - of special stock. I don't think the Lombardi thing played too much into it with him as DM was adopted - which everyone knew, although I think her family had something like 6 or 7 kids - it was a large family - so anyway, there goes the holy grail lineage theory. I think it was more DM had been one of his special ladies and VP always liked her - she did what had to be done to make it to the "top." It was me she told, that her goal had always been to do whatever it took to get to the "top." Although now I wonder, how does it feel to have spent your youth, time, effort, commitment and passion, playing games, political backstabbing, losing your heart and compassion, donning a new persona, and losing your real self, all to become queen of a cornfield.

That's horrific excath - I honestly don't know what to say. You have been in pain for years and self-medicating the hurt away. Have you ever thought you may have post-traumatic stress syndrome? It amazes me how human beings survive things like this.

I think Alan, since you are new here, you have no background on what Jerry has written and shared here the last few years. If you had read his excellent and well thought out article on the on the return (which some will agree with and come won't), you would know exactly where he's coming from on this thread. If you had read his months long discussion of PFAL you would too. But you haven't read them so you are not looking too bright on this thread right now. Jerry, maybe you can link Alan to some of your writings? The difference between here and the other sections on this forum, is we respectfully discuss, muse, turn things over, look at different angles, agree or disagree, all without taking potshots and throwing rocks. VP is not worshipped here anymore by too many people. People who are on the Doctrinal forums want to learn and hear what others have learned on their spiritual journeys since they have left TWI. God does still work in people's hearts and the holy spirit still teaches. They were not exclusive to TWI. You should read Jerry's previous writings before coming in here, derailing the thread, and sounding, quite frankly, behind the curve, because you have no background or context of what Jerry is talking about.

Awesome post Rascal. Sums it up wonderfully.

Well, just from my perspective, I doubt he really cares about this challenge. He probably doesn't come on here, and really, why should he bother to answer some faceless internet chat guys? I think in all the years I've been on here, since Trancechat in the beginning, I've never seen a still-in TWI leader answer something except for Harve. You guys are great, I'm just saying, don't hold your breath....

I see a lot of naivety and hero worship in Craig. Especially in the beginning. Things like, oh wow, a rolodex, golly gee, Dr. is mowing the lawn! That truly is pathetic. Everything VP did was somehow so "spiritual." I don't understand why this inspired such awe in young men. Its got to be the father thing somehow. As LCM starts getting more responsibility and realizes VP is going to back him up, he starts getting more cocky. I heard him read this when he was made president. I thought it was one of the most blatent hero-worship things I had ever heard. VP was an idol to him - literally and figuratively. Its the same worship and devotion Hitler's men gave him. There's just something very unnatural and bizarre about it.

jkboehme - whoa - excellent analysis. Far more articulate than I could put into words. From my own "researching" of the "Jesus Movement" I learned the main people who started it in California truly did have a "call" from God. You had Chuck Smith, Lonnie Frisbee, Ted Wise, Doop and Heefner - they were the stalwarts - the men called and the men who God choose to reach a generation. I find it interesting that VP went to California with the express purpose of contacting these men and playing PFAL for them. Smith, Frisbee and Wise had doctrinal differences after a few sessions and left. These men's churches are still thriving and going strong today - the Vineyard, and I forget the name of the other one. I too feel that VP, as a wolf, came in and through charm, personality, false spiritual "heaviness" was able to lure two of the other men to come after him and used them for his gain and to grow TWI. Both of them wised up early on though. But as one who was born again under Heefner's ministry, for him I will always be thankful - what an incredible man he and his wife Sandy were. I too have found this analysis fascinating. Now that I am older and wiser, it is so easy to see through the BS in the book. It was purposefully written to attract us. I also wonder, how someone like EW, the author, who wrote for prestigious pulblications like the NY Times and others, as a professional journalist, could write such a fluffy PR book. She was not a youngster like we are. Maybe she was paid - who knows.

Interesting question and one I have thought about. All I know, is that for some reason, mankind is a "fallen race." Yet, we all know it is available to be born again and God can commune with us - for me its a thought, an idea, an impression - whatever. But you also see God able to commune with animals (Balaam, the whale that swallowed Jonah, etc.). He can also commune with those who weren't "born again" - the King of Babylon comes to mind. So, God can communicate with any man or woman (or animal) if he so chooses - one does not have to have spirit upon them or in them. So there must be something in man, in all men, that God can communicate with. But I believe that is different from the holy spirit also. Different types of communication. I do believe it was that spiritual connection that was lost to Adam - but that does not make one spiritually dead - I think that's wayspeak. More like, an avenue of communication was lost. Adam willfully gave to Satan, all of the authority and his headship and rulership of this world God had conferred upon him - his kingdom - to Satan, in exchange for the wonderful (in his eyes) knowledge Satan would teach him. Didn't Satan try the same thing with Jesus - worship me and I will give you... because it was given to me... Because Adam had done this of his free will, God couldn't take it back from Satan - all was Satan's now - including mankind. It is now his kingdom. But, there must be something wonderfully inherent in mankind, for God to go to all the trouble to ransom us back from our fallen state - he didn't have to. He could have let mankind and earth wallow in misery and destruction and started over somewhere else. But, I know the Word says our life is hid in Christ, when Christ returns, our true life shall be revealed in us and to us. To me, our sojourn on earth is almost a shadow life, we will not know our true essence, or being, so to speak, until we are with him, and we shall share in his glory and spend an eternity in endless variety, and plumbing the depths of infinite love and knowledge. I believe Adam was inserted into mankind, as was Christ, at a certain point in time. Adam's divine mission was to communicate and teach and show God to mankind, so God could dwell with mankind and love and fellowship with mankind - as he does with the angels, of whom mankind was made just a little lower than. Satan was enraged this beautiful planet was made for man - this new creation of God, enraged puny mankind meant so much to God and he did whatever it took to wrest control of it from God. I believe the knowledge that he offered - "you shall be as gods" - was true spiritual knowledge - of an ungodly kind - but it must have been fascinatingly beautiful. We know Satan was the most beautiful of God's creation - he was an angel. I believe he showed Adam and Eve his full glory - it was probably mindboggling. They were told, they too could be as a "god." Thus, Adam and Eve desired this perfection, desired to know the secrets of this beautiful being, desired to be like him, and probably wondered why God himself was withholding this wonderful knowledge from them, and thus, took it upon themselves to "perfect" themselves. I think the moral is, once man decides to "perfect" himself without the true God, we fall. True perfection is looking at the true God and Christ - not delving into the great spiritual "knowledge" of Satan. So, this rejection of the true God, the desire to "perfect" themselves with the "spiritual knowledge" of the false god, so they too could become "gods" somehow led to a fall. It was catastrophic to God - a total rejection of his love and knowledge. The consequences of this rejection of God was that man's wonderful humanity, that essence God had in mind for him to manifest, could not come to fruition - thus, for now mankind is fallen. Make any sense? :) sorry if I rambled!