Sunesis

Shifra, as you know I respectfully disagree with you regarding Paul. If you consider Jesus appearing to him as magic, then I think you must discount: The burning bush to Moses The donkey speaking to the prophet Angels appearing all the different appearances of God in the OT. Christ's transfiguration to Peter and the other apostles Christ appearing to the disciples after his resurrection, to the 500 - to all who saw him - it must merely magic. St. John who wrote Revelation - magic - maybe on a magic mushroom :) any place where one met God, his spirit, or Christ - it must all be discounted as merely - Magic. I wonder though, if you do believe the other appearances, why you would discount Paul's vision? The book of Barnabas - there were many "epistles" written all over the place under different people's names. It was a common occurence. Interesting to read though. If I didn't agree with you people over here, I could write an epistle saying I was Timothy, or whoever, and hope you'd take the advice I preached. There's a great book I have, I got it on Amazon, regarding the history of Christianity, its fascinating. On where we got our Bible and the various books and why whats in it is, and what isn't, is not. Fascinating.

Well, I know you're all arguing here, and many of you I've known for years and you are dear to me, but, did anyone actually read the long post WW wrote? It was excellent. Any comments on that?

Excie - oops! I made a typo. The only leadership I ever saw witness were JAL and VF, not VP.

Well eyes, you know darn well you were sent to that last one on purpose. A make or break scenario? I think they thought I was going to be quaking in my boots - a midwesterner going to the "big city." It was a make or break thing. Although in this case, the joke was on them. That's why DM was so puzzled that I was so happy about it. She thought I was going to freak out or something. It was later, with corps assignments, many of them were to "make or break" people. What dweebs. Or, if they were grooming a stand out corps man, they'd give him a large assignment to see how well he handled it. Of course leadership was about exhorting those under them to get classes together. They never got one together, but had meetings with underlings to exhort them. Then they could brag how "on fire" their area was. I never, ever saw a leader witness except for VP and JL. WOW assignments weren't by "revelation" either. From talking to people who did them, it was based on, who had a car, etc. Absolutely nothing spiritual about them at all. So Eyes, did that last assignment make or break you :)

I think if they had told us beforehand, they would have lost half the WOWs. Who really wants to go to podunk, South Dakota? I had grown up on the east coast - the 'burbs of NYC and my family had plenty of friends, etc. there, so I was always going in there - I loved Manhattan and Brooklyn, where my mom and dad's friends lived. I had requested, for WOW and interim year, the southwest, southeast, south - somewhere different. It would be nice to get away from the east coast for a change. So, I could not believe when I went WOW that I was sent to - drum roll - a suburb of DC in Maryland. Again, we were right on the border of DC. My motorcycle friend I made would take me cruising Georgetown on hot summer nights. Ok, back to the east coast. Then I went in the corps. Interim year is coming up, surely they'll send me somewhere different. Well, to my surprise - Brooklyn!! In a way this was bad, since I wanted another area of the country, but it was also just awesome! I loved NYC - Brooklyn!!!! Coney Island, fresh seafood, a hop skip and jump by train to Manhattan, my parents friends, their best friends in Jersey who I spent quite a few weekends with on the Jersey Shore at the end of my interim year. Well, I was ecstatic. But, back to the east coast again. I couldn't figure out why they sent me there since I had grown up there. Oh well, who am I to question God and my good fortune. DM could not figure out why I was so happy. She years later told me, they thought it would "make or break" me - what douches - why would they want to "make or break" people? I told her well of course I was happy, I had grown up around there. She couldn't believe it. Neither she nor TWI knew that. My father's company was transferred from Madison Avenue, NYC, to the Midwest when I was a senior in high school. Since the rest of my family got in the Word - TWI - in the midwest, TWI leadership assumed we were midwesterners. I wonder, if they had ever bothered to find out, if they would have kept sending me back to the east coast urban areas. I'm also glad I didn't tell DM I had grown up there, or I can almost guarantee my interim year assignment would have been changed. Can't send someone back to the place they grew up and loved, can you?

That's very profound Abigail! Thanks.

I believe all exploration is great. God leads each of us on their own individual journeys. Shifra, keep exploring! I've been down some interesting paths myself - and been known to believe one thing, then as I learned more, change my mind. We're all on a personal walk with God. I believe there was no one better God could have used to reach out to the gentile/pagan nations with the message of Christ, then Paul. First, people say, why did God send Christ when he did? Because the Kiaros was right. I.e., not the chronological time period, but Kairos is used in the sense of, the time is right. Rome was the main power or Kingdom in the world at that time (I know there was china, etc., but its interesting to see what the Bible says about the division between east and west). To spread the message to the gentiles and pagans, one thing all had a knowledge of, at that time, under Roman rule was a general Hellinistic way of thinking. Thus, the time was right. The doctrine of "Logos" was a profound Hellinstic concept that had spread, people from africa, Alexandria, Europe and all over understood this concept. We read about it in John, the first few verses. The gentiles and pagans understood this. God needed a Jewish person (Paul), learned and thoroughly knowledgeable of the OT, prophecies, law, etc. - a true, devout, Jewish believer. Someone who could explain all of this to the gentiles. He also needed someone versed in the gentile greek concepts. This was extremely important. Most people then were not Jews. They did not understand Judaism. Paul was able to explain the significance of Christ, and his fulfillment then, and in the future, in terms of the OT law and prophets, in a language and with concepts totally understandable to the Gentiles/pagans. We saw the result, the Word spread throughtout the known Roman empire and beyond. Paul was able to synthesize the OT, and via his intimate relation with Christ and the Spirit - this ministry given to him by God - he was able to synthesize the OT with what had happened - Christ. He was able to put it in Gentile terms and carry it into the New Testament. That's why its called a "New Testament." Via revelation, the new came into concretion. Progressive revelation. Without Paul, Christianity would have been another Jewish "sect." Christianity would have died out. Peter would have gone back under the law, and he was heading there when Paul confronted him. Christ told Peter, when he was old, another would carry him. I believe that "another" was Paul. It was Paul who confronted him, got him back out from under the law, and Peter called him his brother. What you see in the book of Acts is the struggle in early Christianity between OT law and NT grace, the law having been fulfilled. And it was a struggle. From reading outside sources about James, whose followers caused riots and his devotion to law, I could say maybe he was a huge hinderance to the spread of the Word. If he had had his way, Christianity surely would have died out. We have to remember they were human, all, with strengths and weaknesses. But Paul was the perfect choice for reaching the gentile/pagan world at that time. He had lived and been raised in both worlds and knew both world intimately, from Jewish prophecy to Greek philosophy, he was able to travel and teach in both worlds.

Good questions Bolshevik. "Gap theory posses a problem for me because if the earth was without form and void, how did the fossil record survive? Why are there living fossils from the time of dinosaurs? If the devil had previously ruled the world how does he survive the cataclysm? Why wasn't he destroyed then? If mammoths lived during the Ice Age, then there was light at the time of the Ice Age?" I think when the earth became without form and void, life was buried. Fossils are under the ground, in geographic layered strata, or caves, etc. There are places, if you look at the fossil records, with many different species buried together, or running up mountains to get away - from something. They are frozen in time, like when they excavated the city of Pompei - it was quick, they were buried and preserved. The earth didn't disintegrate. It became waste - desolate, lifeless - void - empty of life. Well, there are no T-Rex or giants running around, but there are certainly smaller ones, lizards, Komodo dragons, crocs, whales, behemoths, etc. I think God created them, he loves behemoth. There was light during the ice age, why wouldn't there be? There are plenty of species since Adam's time that have died out. Mammoths being one of them, buffalo almost went extinct, eagles, etc. Man likes to kill them. I read recently, something like 80% of all species that were originally created are gone. Why would the devil be killed? He ruled the Universe. He was the greatest - the created cherubum, the high priest, the mediator between God's living creation and angels, and God. He does not have blood. He is spirit like the rest of the angelic host and creation. God took his universal throne away, Christ fills his position and more today, but he is still the prince of the air - that was never taken from him, and the earth is again his, because Adam gave his authority over it to him, that's why he was able to offer it to Christ ("It is given me.") if Christ would but worship him. Why didn't God destroy Satan? Probably because he did not want to repeat an endless cycle for eternity. Yes, he could have destroyed him and created another to take his place, but he didn't, for two reasons I believe. First, God does not destroy life he has made. He has set eternity in our hearts, and done the same with angelic life. Two, God needed to show, to his creation, who only is the true God, who only can create and whose only will is perfect. He could destroy Satan, and make another to take his place, but then, who's to say, that other wouldn't do the same thing? Why repeat a cycle eternally? So, he let Satan be Satan and continue. When judgment was passed upon the earth in Gen 1:2, could Satan reform it? Could Satan let it be light? Could Satan make the waters recede? Could satan create living creatures - sea and land, could Satan create trees, land, plants, could Satan restore the heavens, write the Word in the Stars, reform the earth and get it ready for man? Could Satan create man? Could Satan create? No. The whole universe and angelic host saw - Satan was not God, he could not create, he had no power, he became a spectacle, he was publically humilated. Someday we will know God too. At the end, all of creation will willingly and freely, give praise to God - those who have chosen to be with him. There will never again be any doubt. There will once again be a perfect one will, one harmony. When Satan rebelled, you now had two wills operating in the universe - conflict. When man rebelled, each man having his very own free will, you now have approximately 6 billion wills - chaos. There's too much to squeeze into Noah's time frame: dinosaurs, earthquakes, tectonic plate splits, two life "explosions," the explosion of the planet that's now the asteriod belt, the pelting of the moon with meteors, the pelting of the earth with meteors, volcanic eruptions, etc. YEC base their theory one one man, who in the 1600s sat down and did a geneology. Why could there not be a cosmos, a social order, before mankind/Adam came along? Why do we think we are the first? I believe there was life, a "social order" before Gen 1:2. We may not know much about it, but why not? Note the phrase "from before the foundation of the world" or "since the foundation of the world" - this is God's dividing line, this is huge to him. I believe the Foundation of the world is what was before in Gen 1:1 and before. Of which Peter speaks, saying men are willingly ignorant of that time. Its interesting.

Bolshevik, I really think that if there were dinos roaming during Adam and Noah's days, we would have seen pics people carved, read about it, etc. It would have been a hot topic. Many ancient temples and buildings and artifacts have survived Noah's flood to today. People wrote and drew what they saw. T-Rex, raptor, et al. were not there. I think dinos during Noah's day is absurd. YEC's have to fit them somewhere. If they are put in the gap, it harmonizes perfectly - God and Science. Put them during Adam's day through Noah, it creates disharmony. Its a stretch. YECs do too many contortions to get their theories to fit.

Hi Bolsevik. We see many times the prophets will be talking about one thing, segue into prophecy, then back to the topic. For example, when Isaih prophecies about the King of Tyre, segues into Lucifer, then comes back to the King of Tyre. Its as if they're talking about something, get caught up by the spirit and then come back down to the topic at hand. I think this fits for the Jeremiah passage. If in Noah's flood there was no light, the earth would have froze and there would have been an ice age. I take exception to the YEC because it flies in the face of science - palentology, geology, botany, fossils, etc., and makes Christians look like idiots. Although, I can see God reforming in the earth 6 days. We are told in Revelations there will be a new heaven and earth. I think we will have the joy of watching God create it, as the angels did when they clapped for joy when God created the earth. All of creation in the universe will know who the Creator is. I think though, that when he creates, when he manifests his thought, it is done quickly. thus, the two "life explosions" in the geological record. The first one (which I believe is the pre Gen. 1:2 times, and the Cambrian, which I believe is the Gen. 1:2 time - our time.

The way I understand it, in the gap theory, the major Flood that caused all the damage, no light in the heavens, etc. is the one that happened between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2. The earth standing in and out of the water is that major flood. Judgment, and destruction of Satan's abominations - whatever it was he did. You can't say this flood - the earth becoming waste and standing in and out of the waters in Gen. 1:2 is the same as Noah's. In Noah's flood, the earth did not become waste - it was flooded, but when the waters receded, there was still the familiar plant life, sun, moon, stars, mountains, etc. He knew where he was. The earth was the same. It was not "waste," "ruin," "barren." It was still the same, it was fruitful. YEC's always attribute Noah's flood to the disasters of the first one. It doesn't fit. Mountains literally rolling and tumbling, tectonic plate splits with massive earthquakes, destruction by meteors, total absolute darkness, no light - total waste, ruin, destruction, barreness - I don't think even the ark would have survived that. Also, when I look at the moon and its crators, exploded planets - I think the effect was also heavenly - not just earth. Earth was not the only planet affected.

I think Paul understood Christ from the inner and "spirit" aspect. I also think, Paul, with his Roman citizenship, was able to travel among the Gentiles and world in the ways the other apostles couldn't and he understood the Greek concept of the "Logos" which was fundamental to teaching on Christ to the gentiles. I also think, if Paul hadn't withstood Peter and James, and allowed Christianity and Christians to be subject to the Jewish law, as Peter and James wanted, Christianity would have died out and become just another Jewish sect. I see this hatred of Paul on a lot of Jewish websites, is this a new trend? I'm serious, I've just seen this theory around lately, on mostly Jewish/Bible websites.

Hi Bolshevik. Glad you had me look it up. Its actually Jeremiah 4:23-26. The phrase in vs. 25, "there were no people" is in Hebrew - "there was no man." There was no "Adam." Gen 2:5 is the only other place this phrase is used. But in Gen. 2:5, it is not describing this scene. The phrases "I looked" by the prophet is visionary - God showed him. There has never been a time from Adam's day, until the present, where the earth has been in such a state - not even at the time of Noah's flood. The only time the earth could have been in such a condition was before Adam's creation. This was the condition the earth was in when the Spirit began the six day's work of restoring it to a habitable state. I do tend to believe there were either angelic cities or a previous group of beings God has chosen not to share with us. Although, I always wonder what group God is always referring to when he speaks of resurrections, and there's always that group from "under the sea." That's odd. I don't think he's making a special category out of people who have died in shipwrecks. If there was a previous civilization Satan stewarded - and yet caused violence to - I think from the first flood (the one before Noah's), any evidence is hidden "under the sea."

I think God worked with many cultures over time, all religions have truth. I think the difference is, Christ was the myth come into concretion - the myths were fulfilled and became real.

If someone is going to steward the farm for the owner, they must have free will to make the decisions to run it. Satan was created perfect, he was the steward of all angelic life and whatever was crawling about here on earth. He chose to eventually disobey and want to rule it all himself. A free will being must have that choice, else it is an automaton - a robot. Adam is given dominion in the new earth. Its his. He is in the same position here on earth that Satan was in over the angelic creation. He had personal communion with God. Take an Einstein, Beethoven and all the other geniuses that have lived and Adam was more. Occassionally you get a DNA combination maybe more similar to what was once and a genius is produced, someone maybe similar mentally to what Adam was. We tend to think of him as just a guy, like us. He was God's creation - unfallen. He was clothed with spirit, or light, or something that made them horrified when they lost it at the fall and tried to clothe themselves with it again. He was much, much more than we are. We are fallen. But, to steward the earth, he has to have free will. God must give him a choice. I believe Satan appeared to them as a magnificent being in all his glory - they wanted what he had, what they thought God must have hidden from them. They could be as magnificent as he was - they could be like GODS - all they had to do was partake. Thus, Satan could say, you give me your power, authority and dominion, and I will give you this knowledge which your god is withholding from you. The deal was struck. That's why I don't know if the "tree" was really a tree and if it was truly something God put in the Garden. Why do I think that? Because the only "tree" that was guarded by cherubim was the tree of life, lest they live forever in their fallen state. Man had a choice to make, will I follow and obey God and walk with him in his spirit, or will I follow my own knowledge, a knowledge not from God? Does God know better than me, or do I know better than God? We still make that choice at some point in our lives today.

I think its interesting how before the fall, man and critters ate fruit and veggies - were not meat eaters. After the fall man is told by the sweat of his brow shall he toil. I think something happened and the superabundance of the earth was no more. Now he had to sweat and toil to make the "cursed" ground produce. After the flood, it seems the ground was not as cursed and it became a little easier to get it to produce, and for some reason, that is when the meat eating became the norm. Then, in Rev., during the millenium, we see the earth producing much more abundantly than it does today. I think, if God in his foreknowledge knew man would fall he gave the carnivores the teeth they would need to live in a fallen world. Or, could it possibly be that if the ground was cursed veggies and seed and fruit alone would not now produce the protein needed, as they once did, thus the new need for meat to supplement the diet? If the earth again superabounds in the future after the judgment and the curse is lifted in Rev., then meat would not be needed anymore and all would get everything they need from a vegetarian diet, including the animals. Just a thought. My speculation, who really knows? But its interesting.

I do believe the dinos and fossils were from the first creation. I find it very hard to believe that mankind existed with t-rex and others roaming around. I tend to believe the cro-mags and other ancient hominids were not "man" from Adam's line as we know mankind now. There's a verse in Isaiah - I don't have my bible with me, where he prophecies and goes back in time and talks about the total ruin of the earth, before Gen 1:2 (used a a warning to Israel to get thier act together), where he talks about the ruin and waste and says there was NO ADAM - no man, or mankind as we know it now. This leaves me with two alternatives, either after the dino destruction, Satan tried to create some type of man, or a body for fallen angels to inhabit - and this is why he is so enraged when God creates the perfect Adam and Eve, thus he is publically humiliated again resulting in his deep hatred of mankind, or They were some kind of hominid - more along the line of advanced ape than man. We know from DNA that mankind - Adam's line - us - we are not related to cro-mag, neanderthal or any of those that came before. This was a huge disappointment to the scientific community when it was proven neanderthal is not us. Thus scientists are still wondering where man came from. The old evolution picture of man - you from ape to man is wrong. Its very interesting when you look at scientific timelines of homonids from millions of years ago, one arises, dies out, theres another one, another type arises over here - its more of a jumble of starts and stops. If I can find the science site with the chart I'll post it.

I guess I do believe in the gap theory, I'll give a couple of reasons why I do. I always wondered why, after Gen. 1:1, God only called things "good" or "very good" - but never went beyond that. That started me thinking (I know, that can be dangerous :)). From Ez. 28:18, we know Satan had sanctuaries which he defiled. We know also that Satan was the guardian cherub, the mediator of worship between God and the angelic creation - before mankind. When we look, just at the state of our own solar system, planets riddled with crators, the exploded planet that's now known as the asteriod belt, the deadness of Mars, etc., it is obvious something catastrophic happened. I just don't think God would create a "perfect" universe that looks like its been through a war. Yet, in Ez. 28, Satan was called the model of "perfection." He was "perfect." Not just good, or very good. In Ez. 28:14-19, he was stripped of his position and glory and removed from the Mountain of God where he had his throne. We are told he became full of violence. In II Peter 3:3-7, he tells us the scoffers say: "all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" Note - he says from the beginning of Creation... BUT "this they willingly are ignorant of...the world that then was being overflowed with water perished, BUT the heavens and the earth which are NOW.... When Noahs flood happened, the world did not change, nor the heavens, there was a lot of rain - a flood, but still had light, sun, moon, solar system, heavens, etc. Peter is implying a past change of the structure of the heavens. Scoffers are all aware of Noah's flood, so that is not the one Peter is referencing. The world in Gen 1:1 perished. We are in the world of Gen 1:2 and on. I do believe that Satan - the "perfect" one, who ruled the perfect universe of Gen 1:1 and before, that his rebellion and fall was so cataclysmic it darkened and caused ruin and destruction to the Universe. God says, ok, you want to be the most high? you want to be the creator? fix this mess. Satan cannot. He is publically humiliated before the heavenly beings. God then begins his re-formation, using materials already created, puts things back where they should be, sets the stars in place for the new creation - Adam and his descendants, in the sky to read. In scripture, every time flooding and darkness are used, judgment for sin is the cause. Flooding and darkness are never linked with creation. I believe the first flood in Gen. 1:1 separates the administration of the earth by angels, and the administration of the earth by man (Gen 2:1).

Whether it happened that way or not, every culture in the world, from Sumaria, to Babylon, India, China, the Hopis, Maya, etc. all have the flood story. Whether his name was Noah, Nu or whoever, he is remembered. The word "earth" in the Gen. story is one of the few places in the OT where its translated "earth." The other times that word is used, it means land - an area. Could there have been a local flood? sure. There are some great articles on the net as to where it would have occurred and what caused it. We know that mankind, was not "scattered" until Nimrod's structure he made to the heavens. It seems mankind was pretty content to stay in one area. It would have been pretty easy for a regional catastrophe to occur. If you like, I can find the links. I believe the first flood (Noah's was the second) in Gen. 1:2 when the earth became barren and waste, is where we get seashells on top of mountains, many kinds of dino bones in pits like they were bowled over, species of trees and plants never seen before in deep mines, and other neat geological and palentological finds come from. The earth's history and timeline is fasciniating if you look at geology and palentology. There were two "life" explosions - where all forms of life literally came from nowhere in a very short period of time. The second "explosion" - as science calls it, is the cambrian explosion, which is our life forms as we know them today - which, when you follow the progression, from seeds, to plants, ferns, trees, sealife, land animals, etc., fits in perfectly with the 6 day description of the progression of life in Gen. The first life "explosion" (I forget the scientific name for it) I was believe was the Gen. 1:1 world, it was destroyed by water. Gen. 1:2 on is the re-formation of the earth to its present state (not re-creation - because it was already created). So, I see no reason why there could not have been a cataclysm that wiped out the vast majority of mankind - the reason being Gen. 6:4. Whenever you have a great destruction in the Bible, the reason is always spiritual. Gen. 1:2 - the result of Satan's fall and destruction of the earth. Noah's flood - mankind and animals genetics perverted via gen. 6:4 to thwart the savior from coming. The next, is destruction of fire at the end and a new heaven and earth. So, a destruction by flood and survivors is not farfetched to me. I think all the "legends" of worldwide cultures and religions have some fact in them. The fact that that flood made such a huge worldwide impression on mankind tells me it must have been something like we've never seen.

I don't think it took long for Rosie to become best friends with DM. I think they clicked pretty much immediately - Rosie was older, mature, and probably filled some needs DM had. I think Rosie, the older woman, had no problem figuring out what DM needed and giving it to her. Whatever it was she offered, it was powerful enough for DM to pretty much push most of her old friends out of her life. Rosie became all and everything she needed. I almost believe it was spiritual. She was young and easily manipulated. Well, they've made their bed, now they can lie in it. They probably bicker like old ladies now and hate each other - but they're stuck with each other. History keeps them together. Bird of a feather flock together, like attracts like, and VP liked Rosie. They were of the same kind. He opened the doors for her. She wouldn't have got where she did if he hadn't. Plus, she ran Way Prod. for years. She amassed a lot of behind the scenes power doing that. All with VP's blessing.

I've watched Mr. Juedes site for years. All I have ever seen there is fact, fact, fact, fact. From death certificate, to peoples' testimonies of life in TWI. As someone who spent years in TWI, corps, etc., those testimonies are not made up. I think Mr. Juedes has done a great service. He gave us fact, documents to look at, articles by ex-top leadership, more documents. He has done a great service.

From Trancechat to Waydale to here. I've always thought of it as the body of Christ speaking and dialogueing with each other the way we should have been doing when we were in TWI. I've met old friends, watched people change, their lives change, people given the courage to go out into the "world" and know they will survive and prosper. We weren't a church - we were a lifestyle, we were a loving family at one point, us kids, who tried to walk in God's love. I think that's why others may wonder why we're still here. Its not like a college where we spent 4 years and moved on, for some us it was years, decades, lifetimes. I love watching the journey - where we were at trancechat, when for the first time we were allowed to speak what was really on our minds - it could get rough - to Waydale, and as we've grown, believe it or not, a more mature dialog here. We were part of a "revival" and its amazing to see those of us in our generation (boomers) and younger, still here. Its wonderful. We aren't done yet. God's not finished with us yet. I'll always enjoy coming here, its a great service Paw has done.

I really think young earth creationists are out to lunch. I do not believe dinosaurs roamed the earth with man. Man would have been constantly hiding - don't want to be lunch for a T-Rex. They could have never built their civilizations with dinos running around. Hippo sounds good, or croc. Maybe elephant. Whatever it is, its big!

"Hidden among the reeds in the marsh" - I tend to go with crocadile - a serpent of some kind. Its a critter God loves - only he can control it. In Gen. he talks about the serpent, something God made that he loved. Satan clothed himself, or used a serpent, one of God's beloved creatures to cause the fall. I tend to go with some kind of serpent. An alligator or crock has the powerful tail. Or, maybe here in Job, God has gone back in time and is talking about the dinosaur. We know in Gen. 1:1 - all creation was perfect. then the fall. Gen. 1:2, God reforms it, but it is now only "good." Peter talks about the "third heaven and earth" to come. We are in the second. Many times the OT prophets would segue into past or future. Why could it not be a dinosaur, a denizen of the first earth, and not the second, of which we are now living. Every time I've read that, it really seems like a brontosaurus he's describing.

You're right about the basement there. I used to work in one of the departments down there alone at night sometimes. There was a creepy feeling. I have a feeling, before we had it, some weird/awful stuff went on there. There were just "vibes."