Sunesis

Well, let's ask the question here. How many men "unthinkingly" put ladies hands on their pants to show them their erections? Is this a pretty common occurence? Seriously, is it? I see men scratch their balls and adjust things, but don't see them going around putting other people's hands on that area to feel their erections. In fact, most men are very protective of that area and do not allow strangers to touch it, nor put people's hands in that area, unless of course, they're getting ready to have sex. For those calling this normal, beautiful or, hey, the guy just did it unthinkingly, and think this is just quite normal, what kind of crack are you smoking???? Unthinkingly??? Really, men just do this unthinkingly?? So, men, do you "unthinkingly" put strange womens' hands there to feel your erections?

Sure pushed someone's buttons - truth hurts huh? Ok, I will be rude. We have here a bunch of young, dumb, full of c-m kids, who think they are entitled. If they think they're going to force Rosie out, they are delusional. I guess they think its their turn for power and $$ - what little egomaniacs they are. There, is that rude enough for you? I love ignorant, self-righteous dweebs who come on here and tell others to STFU. Short fuse, I will give my opinion any time I want. If you don't like it, change the channel. Until then, STFU.

Oh yeah, then little Britt Moneyhands' a-- is grass. Maybe he can be on housekeeping and clean toilets for a few years to learn meekness and humility -how dare he plot to overthrow the BOD!

How would they accomplish this coup? Let's see, they have no power at the BOD level, so they can't do it there. Will they take the stage during an SNS and hold Rosie and the others hostage until they sign a form giving them power? The children of "leaders" - raised with a sense of entitledment, I bet they're getting antsy now, they think they should be getting theirs? Moneyhands is so special he should be king (oops - MOG) soon? Sounds like they're delusional. The only way they can do anything is start thier own ministry. But why should they, when they can have the pot of gold and millions if they can somehow stage a coup? I don't mean to be rude, but I see a bunch of delusional dumb kids with entitlement problems. I can guarantee you one thing, there will not be a coup.

Mrs. W was miserable with VP. She shed many a tear with some corps ladies, which has been shared here. There have been several threads on this over the years. At VP's funeral, when my relatives went up to Mrs. W to give their sympathies (whom she had known for years were close to), she looked at them and said, "he was a mean man" - they were speechless. What do you say to that at a funeral??? Great epithet for hubby. She wasn't sad to see him go, that's for sure. We also know his son couldn't stand him either. I knew D quite well, he never hid his contempt for his father.

Oh really, and how could they possibly do a coup? The naivete of youth. They need to read the legal BOD papers. They'd have to get them voted out and themselves voted in. How will they do that? Lobby all the BOD members? The president's cabinet? There will never be a coup - the kids are dreaming. Once they wake up, they'll realize, they're just going to have to outlive the folks in power and wait patiently for their turn - 20-30 years from now. Didn't Brit Moneyhands learn anything in college????

Yes, I read it a long time ago. There are quite a few older threads on Nephilim here in Doctrinal too. Do a search. Great book. There's a reason God wants his kids to know these things now. You may also enjoy reading the Book of Enoch which is on the 'net. That filled in a lot of things for me.

I don't know. Need to know basis? When the "time is right" (Kairos) seems to be a part of how God works. What Daniel couldn't understand, and he was told to seal it until the time was right, well, when the time is right (now), then the figurative becomes very, literally, obvious. Progressive revelation. I don't think we are meant to know everything, all at once. Its like a rose, as time unfolds, things we need to know unfold. For example, like, when we read in the OT that Israel would be formed in a day, at that time people scratched their heads and said, how can that be??? but now, we look back and say, oh yeah, UN vote that day. But, why would God want to say, on such and such day, the UN will vote to form the nation of Israel? Then Satan would have years to make sure there never was a UN and plan is thwarted. I think God uses figurative and gives spirit to people to understand it. Without spirit, it would seem like nonsense. My 2cents.

I think Oakspear had a very valid point here: QUOTE Let me give an example here that has applied here as well in many other threads. When a new poster comes along, uses some “Way Speak” verbiage and hits the hot buttons of “good associated with PFAL” and “due respect accorded to vpw as teacher of PFAL”, they are pigeon-holed as a “pfal/twi/vpw” fan/lover/defender/apologist. I disagree with you there. Not that these labels aren't used pecipitously at times, but my observation is that those newbies who "uses some “Way Speak” verbiage and hits the hot buttons of “good associated with PFAL” and “due respect accorded to vpw as teacher of PFAL”, get tarred and feathered and labelled predominantly when they make a judgement against those of us who have no use for Wierwille and PFAL, or offer some "helpful" advice about how we should "get back to the Word", or move on or be positive or whatever, with no consideration as to why we feel the way we do, and with the condescending attitude that we have somehow "lost our way". I wish there were a place for newbies to go to kind of get a catch up, or sense of the history of this place. I don't care what peoples opinions are on anything - I really don't, but, it just never fails, the nasty, condescending crusader "fighting for the Lord" against those who don't wear the same rose colored glasses always shows up to set us straight.

Hi Eyes. No, sadly, I'm not joking. I was at HQ the beginning of my last year in residence. It was early fall and I was assigned the task for work of sweeping the patio area in front of VP's house. I had noticed since my first year in residence he always wore this large silver ID bracelet. You could see there was an inscription, but I never got close enough to read it. But I was always curious as to what it said. He was talking to someone, so I swept over to him, he was just a few feet away, read the inscription and continued on. He was intent on the man he was talking to and basically took no notice of me. That's what it said, "The Man of God." He wore it alot. Skyrider, ain't it the truth, how many offshoots are there now? Ex10 - I never thought of it that way. Once the presidency was handed over to LCM, VP was kind of left on the back burner. I imagine that did not sit well with him. I can see why he'd go to CG - he was the one he felt would commiserate with him. VP and CG were truly birds of a feather.

Yes Eyes, I agree, there does seem to be a few "common god" denominators all over the ancient earth. I also find it interesting, people look at these ancient drawings, say on temple walls or in egypt and take everything literally - until - there's some weird creature, and then say, of course, that's just figurative. I think the ancients knew much more than we know. I have also seen many Christians now reading Enoch - which the remaining copies were hidden for centuries, and learning about Nephilim. I think, there is a reason God is opening this stuff up now to so many. 50 or a hundred years ago, it wasn't needed to know, it was not the right "Kairos" or particular time yet. Now, for some reason it is. Cman, I like your posts, always food for thought! Abi, you are right. We are told not to judge. When I think of all the time TWI spent looking for debil spurts behind every rock or in every believer - oy! We are never to judge who is God's child and who isn't either. Unfortunately, way too many "christians" love to do just that. I think another big difference between us and spirit is blood. Blood is sacred to God - for some reason. He doesn't say why. As I've posted before, it cleanses and contains life. Christ's perfect blood was required to be shed. It covers us, cleanses sin, etc. That's why I think so many ancient religions - blood was such an important part - spilling it, sacrificing it to the "gods." Although I do not believe these practices were of the true God. Many were bloodthirty, cruel and horrific, but their "gods" sure loved it and required it. If it was sacred to God, spilling it was a way of profaning it and the true God. Thus, in the OT God is also emphatic about his people not taking part in those rituals and sacrifices to gods. I believe there were many people in ancient times, who were not of Israel, but in their own cultures walked with God, a famous one I can think of is Socrates. Chinese, Arab, American Indian - God worked with them too. I think at the resurrection, they will say, oh yes - this was who I was looking for!

Larry, good for you. Think its a doozie all you want. White Dove, I agree. I never thought he was a prophet, apostle, or "The Man of God" as his heavy silver Id bracelet that he wore all the time was inscribed. I think he thought he was though.

This is what I like about doctrinal, good points, good discussion! Abi, to answer your question you asked me, I would have to say, I don't know, but I have my theories, or "speculations" as I call them. It may be totally off the wall, or whatever, but I'll tell you what I have kind of concluded. In Gen. 6:4 we are told there were some "after that." Or after the flood. When Moses' spies go into the promised land after wandering, they come back and report there were giants in the land. Remember, this was the "promised land" to Israel. Ok, so Satan's purpose of corrupting the human DNA line was thwarted, so now he thinks, let's plant some in the promised land so God's people can't have it. Of course, the spies were terrified and didn't want to go there just yet. Israel wanders some more until its people and army are ready to pull this off. Whether they were literal "giants" or a bunch with corrupt DNA - who knows. You will note in the OT, there are certain people and animals, yes, animals, Israel is called upon to wipe out. If you look at the names and trace them, they are descended from this nephilim prodigy. Goliath and Bashur were some of the remnants. It became Israel's divine mission to get rid of this corruption that was still around and had planted itself in the promised land. God is very stern that they were not to mingle with this people. Eventually, of course, they do, and when the prophet finds out, he goes into deep lamentation. I don't have my bible, I forget exactly where that is. But he is devastated - oh my - what have you done?? I believe most of them were wiped out. But, you did have them mingle with men when Israel failed and mingled with them. And, of course, people say, see, God is a genocidal maniac. I believe, God knew something we didn't. Because Israel was also told to welcome the stranger. So why is one welcomed and the other destroyed? I believe you see them pop up today - what we would call psychopaths, serial killers - men who are driven to kill, cannabilize and torture for the "fun of it." It is their nature. I read an article once by the guy who started the FBI profiling section. He said you just cannot describe these people. He said the only way you could comprehend them, is, its almost like an alien in a human body. There is just something missing in their brains - a conscience. It goes way beyond what we in TWI would have considered "possession." I think many of the incredible wonders of the world today - Stonehenge, temples, pyramids are pre-Noah's flood structures that still stand today. I asked Patrick Heron, after reading his book, what got you started? He said, when he visited Balbek in Turkey and saw the massive 50 ton stone block up there in the air on top of other stones, he thought, my, you'd almost have to be superhuman to do that. That piqued his interest - what if? I think the similarity in the gods people had all over the earth, the serpent or dragon, found from China to South America. I believe at one time, these fallen angels who left their habitation did rule the people - people worshipped them as "God." The sumerians, Babylonians, egyptians, etc., left us pictures of them on their temple walls. They purposely left the abode God had prepared them in the heavenlies or other dimensions(s?) - whatever, it caused violence to people, animals, and the earth. God is emphatic on not worshipping anyone but him. Anyway, my 2 cents. I guess, from all the stuff I've read, this is just the jist of how the story goes.

When I spoke with Rev. JD before he died, I asked him many questions from a historical point of view - he and several others were the main players/founders of the Jesus Movement. I wanted to know the history before the ones God called were gone. He said, one of the main reasons VP came and sought him out was because he had heard there were Christian groups doing orgies. VP wanted in, and wanted back up for this from the Bible - how they had worked it out. JD said it was more of a swingers party and after one episode never went back but VP kept pestering him for details. When VP made his famous trip to SF that summer, I was astounded to learn (well.. I guess I really shouldn't have been), that VP spent his free time at the SF porno theaters. Right, really comitted to outreach he was - Not. VP just targeted the 5 "leaders" of the movement. If he could get some of them, he figured he was on his way. VP also earlier, fellowshipped with what later were called the Tulsa renegade preachers - all the people he knew, Stiles, Clark, Star Daily, Rufus Mosely, etc. were of this group. After WWII when the country started prospering, they all felt they could make more money if they started their own ministries. Most of them did. VP did too. I believe it became VP's quest to find something he could market. He wasn't bright enough, or Christian enough to write his own books from his own insights and relationship with God. That's why, when he ran across BG Leonard and his class and was so excited about it, it was because - eureka - I've found my goldmine. For most people who enjoyed twig and PFAL and the classes available, he was a wonderful old guy. And yes, the Word we heart taught saved so many and lives were healed - too bad this teaching came from BG's heart and not VP's. I think its those of us who went in the corps who got to see his Jeckyl/Hyde personality. I always had the dichotomy in my mind - how could the Word and God be so great and in private our "teacher" was such a prick? Cruel to his wife, those around him, drunk many times (drambuie in the coffee or morning 7-up), nasty temper, with his own harem of women, publically humiliating his wife by living in the motorcoach when he was home - not with her. Once he had various women they were tossed away or passed around to others, porno movies for the corps' "learning" - how could this be? Really, how could this be? It was GS that allowed me to realize, simple. He taught another man's class and work as if it was his own. He hijacked it. And since, because he was "the teacher" and the "man of God for our day and time" much of this was overlooked and the people on the field had no clue. I believe he was in it for the money. One of the reasons his first people left him, as one said, he had started getting money from the classes and went out and bought a nice new Harley. When this man found out he had done this with supposedly "non-profit" money, he told him he could no longer work with him. How much material possessions did he amass? Motorcoach, plane, thousands in wardrobe, new cars every year - 5 Harleys (he had a couple he kept at Emporia most people didn't know about), an auditorium, a compound, buildings, land, neighboring farms, houses for his family, and so much more - whatever he wanted, he got. He built an earthly, material kingdom. How did he do this? I worked in finance in payroll. Simple. In public, he'd show people his paycheck, but in private, we'd get the notes, I'm going shopping tomorrow, please have $500 waiting for me, or other requests. He and his top leaders were given lots of money "off the books." The man amassed an earthly, material kingdom. Did the heavenly kingdom coming ever cross his mind? If it did, it was at the end, when he started whining - I wish I was the man I know to be. People always thought it was so wonderful he said that. I always thought it came from a man who knew he had blown it in this life and couldn't go back and redo it. I think he was very afraid to meet his maker. He was not looking forward to it. In fact, the Holy Spirit's job is to convict all mankind, I cannot tell you how many testimonies I have read where the person knew, it was then or there make a decision, deathbed accounts where people literally told the people around them, as they were being urged to accept Christ, that they just couldn't do it, it was too late, and would relate specifically when in their life they had had their chance. I don't think VP really accepted Christ, from his actions. I think he did have an "intellectual" interest in the Bible though. He had to, he had to keep up his public persona as "the man of God." Then, in true sociopathic form, near the end, he runs off to CG and complains and bitches about everyone and everything in the ministry. Nothing was his fault - oh no... Gee, everyone had let him down, poor me. He was angry. What does he do in his last hours? Watch sports on tv. I think, if I was really concerned about my salvation at the end, I wouldn't be watching tv. I believe he was a false prophet - and why would we marvel at this? "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workman, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Is it not surprising then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness." "They entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves to depravity." I guess that just about sums up VP for me.

I think TWI in its current state today is Exhibit A. Look where their emphasis on accuracy - biblical research - has led them. Some aging buildings in a cornfield. Last one out, please turn off the lights. TWI's idol was the Bible. I've grown to see it over the years since I've been out, as a book of prophecy. It points to Christ in the OT, he comes, Christ in the NT - he is the revealer, the apocalypsis - he reveals himself to us. He reveals and rules at the end. All of the OT prophecies are fullfilled in Revelation. I guess my point is, its all about him. A teacher of the Word, his whole purpose, is to lead one to Christ - a relationship with him. We were not led to Christ. We were led to knowledge, accuracy, always wanting to hear some new thing, some new teaching. Knowledge was the thing. Retemories, how many verses you could memorize, how many word studies, and on and on. The name of Jesus? That was the mantra said at the end of a prayer. He was absent - up in the sky somewhere, coming back - someday, but not really here now. Yet, he tells us he walks among the churches in Rev. He is here - now - always has been. Our emphasis was on God - not his son. On God and his Word. I almost feel Christ was God's heart, sent to us, to mankind, a gift, an offer of eternal life. God's heart - we never knew it. But what did that little detail matter, as long as we had the accuracy of the Word?

As promised, some links: one of them has interesting pics. Google, bible nephilim, Bible Giants, etc. As I said, there are nutso sites out there, but hold fast the good. http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/s...s/nephilim.html http://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/PhotosS...GiantsGods.html Awesome posts everyone! I love the Newton quote. Reading the Aramaic names of the God, Kokabel - sound familiar? Kokopelli of the Hopi nation, their god who led them here to the Americas. Heron's book really goes into their names, and the stars and planets associated with them. I need to read the book of Jasher. Its interesting, Jared means, when they came down. Linda, your thesis sounds fascinating, you lost me a bit, but only because I'm unfamiliar with what you are saying. I'd love to read it sometime. I do think we are nearing the tribulation, end times. In both Noah's times and now, all eat, drink, marry, etc. But there have been only two times you have the DNA corruption and cross-species breeding. Noah's day (I have no clue how they did it, they were fallen angels, were with God when he created the earth - I have a feeling they knew things mankind were not to know), and now, our day. This is the only thing they have in common. Here's what science can do with it now: http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/s...s/nephilim.html

I remember a few years ago the topic of Nephilim was brought up and I was vehemently against it. I thought it was ludicrous, it was obviously Seth's line. No way could angels produce offspring with humans. A couple of years ago, I googled Nephilim. As you know, the internet is full of junk and crackpots, but there were enough wonderful articles, I got the jist of it. I also read the Book of Enoch, its history and how and who destroyed it is very interesting. It wasn't until the late 19th and early 20th century that two copies were found, hidden away by Egyptian coptic Christians. It seems the book of Enoch was widely known, is quoted throughout scripture, not elaborated upon, because it was probably assumed everyone knew what it said. He elaborates on who these fallen angels were in Gen. 6:4, he called them the Watchers. Interesting stuff. I'll find some links for you tomorrow. But Google Nephilim and read Enoch. Enoch is on the net. It just fills in missing pieces. I believe there is a reason God wants us to know now. It was not needful to be revealed earlier. But with mankind's knowledge of DNA, it now makes sense. Also, a great book, is Patrick Heron's book (yes, he was 12th corps from Ireland), the Nephilim, the Pyramids and Apocolypse, something like that. It was a best seller on Amazon for awhile. I think its ten bucks, I ordered it from Amazon. He gives a great overview, has pics, etc. He really did his research, explaining their names, etc. Why do I like this theory? Because it explains why: 1. God told Israel to wipe out certain tribes. Its not that God was a genocidal maniac. 2. It explains why Jesus told his disciples, when asking for signs of the coming end times, said: It shall be as it was in the days of Noah. I imagine these fallen angels were doing lots of DNA cross-species manipulation creating their offspring, even the animals weren't left alone. I think the "myths" of Greece and other civilizations of hybred animals, were based in truth. Now, mankind is doing some weird DNA manipulation and will eventually create cross-species - going against God's natural law. Thus, we are now in the "days of Noah." 3. Explains why there was a flood. All of mankind had been corrupted. Thus, the Savior could not redeem mankind, Satan would be victorious, the earth forevermore his. That's why when Gen. says Noah was "perfect" - I believe the Hebrew word means, genetically perfect. As a descendent of Adam - he was fully human, his genes had not been corrupted. As we know, and Satan knew, the Savior would come through Adam's line. So, destroy it. 4. Explains why, after all the corruption, Israel were not to worship these strange gods. I also note, that all of the ancient Gods, from Maya, Babylon, Sumeria, all had the same names, and Appolyon (Apollo) their leader, all of whom are "chained" up until the last days, will rise again (Rev.), they will be released from their prison. I think mankind, will once again, worship these beings, as gods. Tomrrow I'll find some links. I know it sounds crazy, but it sure does answer some questions and tie some things together.

Hi Dot! Great to see you. Yes, I put my two cents in this thread somewhere, I don't feel like slogging through it to find it. This is another GS classic thread. Yeah, it does seem we do this once or twice a year or so. I was thinking of this quote during this thread: The author is expounding on Christ's saying: Come hither, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. He says: "Come hither all, all, all of you, with Him is rest, and He makes no difficulties, He does but one thing, He opens his arms. He will not first (as righteous people do, alas, even when they are willing to help) - He will not first ask thee, "Art though not after all to blame for thy misfortune? Has thou in fact no cause for self-reproach?".... But he will put no such questions to thee, He will not be thy benefactor in so cruel a fashion. If thou thyself art conscious of being a sinner, he will not inquire of thee about it, the bruised reed He will not further break, but he will raise thee up if thou will attach thyself to Him. He will not single thee out by contrast, holding thee apart from Him, so that thy sin will seem still more dreadful; He will grant the a hiding place within Him, and once hidden in Him He will hide thy sins.... He does not stand and wait, he goes forth to seek, as the shepherd sought the lost sheep, as the woman sought the lost coin. He goes - yet no, he has gone, but infinitely farther than any shephard or any woman, He went, in sooth, the infinitely long way from being God to becoming man, and that way He went in search of sinners. S. Kierkegaard. This is for Excie, Marsha, Dot, Rascal, Catcup, et al. For all who have been hurt, yet still open their hearts and lives so others may learn - He does but one thing, He opens his arms.

Hmm, strange gods. I go with Gen 6:4 - fallen angels corrupting the human race. I've posted pictures of these beings. I believe they did rule over ancient civilizations and were worshipped as Gods. Their names all relate to heavenly stars or the heavenlies. Their memory and cruelty lives on. It was tempting to worship these gods. In truth, they are nothing but fallen angels, but to mankind, they were "Gods." Angels in heaven, I think that's what God means when he tells Israel not to worship them. As many of the peoples around them did, or the idols in their memory of them.

Yes Pond, I'd also like to know your credentials, years of schooling, degrees whatever. I'd like to know what your credentials are that give you the right to judge, and how many people you have worked with in this field, how many victims you have personally worked with and counseled, please, tell us so we can judge. Please share with us. Put up or shut up. You're sounding very much like a self-righteous pharisee. What drives you to tear her down and minimize her? Let's see what your credentials are that make you so special, holier-than-thou and above Catcup. What credentials do you have that give you the right to judge and minimize her work, certifications, credentials and experience? I can just see Christ someday, "good job Pond, you sure put Catcup in her place, you were a great Judge, you sure made her look stupid, didn't you." Makes you feel good all over, doesn't it Pond? I'm sure God is so "proud" of the stand you just took, isn't he? Gives you a warm feeling all over, doesn't it? Boy, you showed Catcup. You sure showed us.

How did those poor Christians ever make it before there were concordances and other study materials? Those poor people did not have the "accuracy" of the Word. I guess they had to depend on the Holy Spirit to teach them. Accuracy - isn't that what Christ slammed the Pharisees for? swallowing camels and straining at gnats? How quickly "accuracy" becomes legalism and bondage. Knowledge of Christ is No. 1, all the accuracy in the world can't fill that void.

Damn Catcup - we're good! Haven't lost our touch I see, after all these years :) Yup, me and Catcup with Auntie Em in the Bookstore one year in the early '80s. Proud to be a member of the "scum of the crik" Way Bookstore alumni from that year.

Oldies, maybe we knew each other when I lived in NYC. But you're schtick has grown old. For years now - yes years, it seems almost everyone one WD or GC has tried to share with you, tried to get you to see it from the young girl's point of view. You: 1. Don't believe ANY of them - how many dozens of incidents have been related here? 2. Don't care - that's a big one 3. Feel they somehow "deserved" it 3. Wonder, why didn't the ones forced just say "no" 4. You're glorious experience was the way it really was 5. Believe everyone is lying. So, on this topic - why does anyone want to waste their time explaining it to you and the newbies here, who come in here with absolutely no clue as to what's gone on - the history here, don't bother to read the articles and demand to be educated. I have seen some heartrending experieneces shared here. Not once, Oldies - not once - have you ever said, I am sorry that happened, I feel for you. Never. Ever. You're like a sick voyeur. You're tiring.

I like paypal. I mostly buy :) I use my Amex card. Sure beats going to the bank and standing on line for money orders after work. Also, a couple of months ago, someone did not send me my item. I had emailed him on ebay - never heard from him. I filed a claim with paypal, boy, did I all of a sudden hear from him. He promised to send it. I fine, it better be here by Fri. I will not cancel the claim until it gets here. He never sent it, paypal refunded my money, plus shipping costs on my Amex card. If I hadn't have used paypal, I would have lost a couple hundred. I recommend it. Just go to the paypal site and sign up.

Catcup, awesome posts. Why is it, its always the same couple of VP worshippers people spend their time on? Some of you, Oldies, et al., will never, ever get it or understand it. What is is about VP to you? A father figure archtype - something you never had and he fills the void? LCM, Geer, and some of you idolize him. It is idolitry. Catcup, thanks for sharing, but sometimes, its best not to throw your pearls before swine.