Sunesis

That's just awesome Excie, what a great thing to do for her!

I think we sometimes look at this concept of hell from the wrong perspective. Its not about us. Really, its not about you and me. Its about God. I think, he has told us, there is a day coming when he will dwell with mankind and his creation. He tells us all of creation is in turmoil and waits for that day. God is Holy, Righteous and Just. I believe, the realm, or dimension, or whatever the new "creation" that he promises to create, will possibly require a different type of physical body than we have now. In his home, there is no sin. As now, in the heavens where he dwells with his other creations, there is no sin. And they have different bodies. Bodies suitable for that habitat and state or dimension. He has offered us Heaven. He has offered us perfection. He has offered us new bodies. He has promised to make us a new creation. Those who wish not to be with him and who are not born again cannot be "regenerated" so to speak, when we shall be changed into a new heavenly creation. They cannot be regenerated or changed because they have not Holy Spirit. God offers us Heaven. He says you only need to do one thing - only ONE thing: believe in Him who he sent. I think he has told us what's coming. Some don't like it, that's your perogative. I think we humans are like tin soldiers. Thier owner says, I can make you alive! The tin soldiers are afraid of the new world, new body, to be a new creation, and say, no thanks. I think from God's perspective, he's told us what's coming, took the time to come down to to die for us and bring us to Him. We may not like God's plan that Heaven and perfection are coming and that's fine. God is Love. He cannot dwell in harmony with "not love." Not in his home. If I have a house, and next door is a thief, will I invite him to dwell with me? Of course not. God will not have his habitation the home of unrighteousness. He deals with it in Revelation. I think of Hell, as a place where God is not. God has honored your free will, you can be without him. I shudder to think of a place without God and rampant unchecked egos running wild. I think those in that place will be able to see Him and see the glory they chose to forego. I think that's the cause of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Love of God/Hate for God, just two sides of the same coin. Oh, did hell have any effect on me? No. When I didn't believe I could have cared less about it. It didn't even make me indignant. I didn't care, and wondered why anyone else would. It was much easier to believe I would be no more. I think it was the thought of living eternally, after I was born again that made me wonder about these things. It was love that got me born again, not hell. Plus, our "vision" of hell has been grossly distorted by Dante's Inferno. His made up version of what he thought Hell should be. You should read it. Its amazing. Everything you've ever heard about hell springs from that man's imagination. Basically today, when people think of hell they are thinking of Dante and his medieval imagery, which is quite horrid.

Hi Newlife. I have a friend who is a phlebotomist (sic), who draws blood for a living. She is a new Christian and it makes totally, perfect sense to her that the life is in the blood. She started going on about how it carries oxegen, it does this and that - she definitely knows her topic. From God's Word, he places a huge amount of importance on blood, for reasons I don't understand, but he does. God says it cleanses, it makes pure, it has a voice and cries from the ground, it is used as an atonement for sin in lieu of a man's life, but mostly, it cleanses and washes. Adam's blood was created by God - was perfect. Adam was a totally "new creation" of God's. No one, or anything like him had ever before been created. I believe he was an earthly shadow, or type, of a Heavenly being. Christ, as the second "Adam" - the one who would redeem mankind from their error or separation from God, or sin as its also called, must also have had "perfect" blood. We read, when Christ was killed and he was ordered to death by the high priest Pilate, he was in actuality the atoning lamb, the lamb who's spilled blood atoned for sin. His spilt blood now cleanses us and washes us when we believe. When he rose, his blood cleansed the heavenly temple and places that had been defiled by the adversary (Hebrews). To redeem mankind, as the second Adam, Christ's blood had to be as pure as the first Adam's. Christ's blood had to be a new creation of God. Merely human blood would never have been sinless or righteous enough to pay for man's separation from God and to wash mankind of its sin. Mankind is a fallen race, its blood polluted. I love the verse, "A body thou hast prepared me" speaking of Christ. The body he inhabited on earth was made for him by God, as was Adam's made for him also. But, the blood is holy, pure, cleaning, washing - someday we'll know why and understand it from God's perspective and not ours.

Keith, you make a great point and aren't belittling Kris at all. Many of us saw weird "red flags" and, I guess it was cognitive dissonance, and thought, nah... that can't be... I think she was young, VP had his sights on her and there was no way he was going to let her leave. Later, once he had used her, he didn't want to let her go because she was an initiate, a "special" one, one who could wear his ring. I think if he had lived and kept his health and Kris still hadn't "gotten it together" VP would have thrown her out, told everyone she was possessed, and it would have been as though she had never existed in TWI. She was young and he manipulated her masterfully. I was able to figure pretty much who most of the characters were she wrote about. We know what's up with CG, it would be interesting to hear some of the others take and where they are now.

Your daughter is absolutely beautiful Jonny! Props to you and Mrs. Lingo. I imagine she's the apple of your eye. Nothing like a proud dad!

Brushstroke, TWI believes this about Jesus: 1. He was with God in His foreknowledge, i.e., he was not co-eternal. But God knew he'd someday make him in Mary's womb. 2. He was born of Mary, a virgin. He was sinless, His flesh was perfect. 3. He had a Perfectly Renewed Mind (because of being perfect) - He walked flawlessly with God because: His mind was perfectly renewed (i.e. - thought the Word only) 3. When baptized by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit came upon Him. So, He was: Perfect man, with Holy Spirit upon Him. We could be like him if we renewed our minds like he did, and believed God like he did. He could believe God because of his perfect mind and Holy Spirit. Since we have Holy Spirit in us when born again, we are like him in this world, and there is no reason we could not walk like him and do the same things he did and eventually, become as him is - if we could just renew our minds. When he was raised from the dead is the first time He and God actually met.

Very interesting. I have never heard that. If its true, of course it would be kept hush-hush - don't want the man of gawd for the world looking like an idiot and doing something stupid like most humans do now and then. I knew JRR when he was on staff his interim year, then in residence at the same place. He was one of the most nicest, sweetest people in TWI I have ever met. He had truly what we called back then, a great heart. He was also one of the meekest and humble men in residence. He was just a sweet, wonderful guy. I always wondered how the heck he ended up on the BOT - seriously. But, he didn't last long and was let go due to "health reasons." I never believed that was the whole truth. I believe he was not mean enough to survive RFR, and was probably too honest and wouldn't go along with something or other. From what I know of JRR, I would tend to believe his account. I mean, all of a sudden, there had never been any talk of a diseased eye, no calls for prayer, etc. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, VP arrives home one lovely sunny weekend with no eye? I always thought that was strange.

I always did wonder how he avoided the draft in WWII. Do I think he was a card carrying Nazi? No. I think he was very sympathetic of them though. He was more of a white supremist I think. But, if he had lived in Germany under Hitler, I think he would have been one of the first to enroll and put on the uniform. He would have been a proud Nazi I think..

Tom, I'm not "decrying any fact" that someone is not a trinitarian. In fact, I could care less if they are or they aren't. Truly, I don't care. Your walk is not my walk. I worry about my relationship with God, I don't need someone else worrying about it for me, like back in TWI. I respect you too, but I've noticed since you've returned, you've been reading a lot into people's posts that simply are not there. One person you totally pounced on and I still couldn't figure out for what. You need to knock it off. I think you read way too much into my post. I stated my opinion. I am not "decrying" if anyone believes in the trinity or not. I see, that TWI grossly neglected to see, that Christ had a divinity to him. That's my opinion, and, what I believed God showed me. We are all individuals, he will show us in his time in various ways. But don't read into post things that aren't there. I know this subject gets people's emotions all riled. That's probably why it hasn't been discussed in the last couple of years.

When I was on staff at HQ and he came back with his eye having been removed, and greeted us at lunch, it was also very obvious he'd had a stroke. One side of his face was frozen and that side of his mouth couldn't smile. He kind of waved and sat down, didn't say much. I remarked to someone at my table, he's also had a stroke, and they reproved me. Since most of us were young, they wouldn't know what a stroke victim looked like. That's why no one realized he'd had one. He recovered over time.

What I think is very interesting, is that so many people in TWI who were Christians and left, is that most of them over the years have become Trinitarian, and have seen (by God's enlightening of them I believe) that Christ was divine. He had a divinity. VP's trashing of Christ's divinity did TWI people a massive disservice. Mainly, because reading JCING, you realize VP had no concept of the trinity, which he mocked many times in his teachings. All he could do is mock - which is what the followers do today. TWI followers blindly believe this one book, over any other book VP ever wrote. Christ was "Emmanuel" - God with us. Just as God dwelt upon the earth with Israel in the Tabernacle, the Holy of Holies, so, Christ was the LIVING Tabernacle, on earth. He was the Holy of Holies. He was the "fullness of the Godhead bodily." He was the fullness of God walking, dwelling among men, on earth. He was the Logos of the universe, the Word, made flesh. He created the world and everything in it, and remarked on this in John to his disciples, yet, he was rejected by Israel. Those who saw him have seen the Father. VP denied that Christ [Emmanuale - God with us] was "come in the flesh." He warped that scripture. Christ talked about he glory he had with the father before his incarnation in the "body thou hast prepared me" when on earth. Peter, John, and James saw him in his amazing, glory at the transfiguration and fell down. Does a Christian need to believe Christ had a divinity? No. But, I believe they will never see the greatness of what was done for them. He's more than a "bro."

Well, I probably shouldn't have phrased it, that it became an "in" thing to do. But I do know, that many people did believe if they died, they would have a "better" resurrection, and I can see how a Christian would think martyrdom offered the most, and ultimate "rewards" and would run to do it. Don't we see the same thing today in other religions? I forget where I read it, but there were many, many Christians, looking for martyrdom. That said, they did go through a wave of 10 awful persecutions in the first century and are still being killed today. Just like many of us "ran to serve" - so, I think many Christians "ran to die." I don't know, I need to find more info on it. But I find it interesting, where martyrdom is talked about in Hebrews, it was prophets, and men who spoke for God martyred. Maybe that's something to study.

Awhile ago I was interested in this and did some reading. I was surprised, besides Foxes Book of Martyrs, there's not a whole lot written about it. I heard VP say Stephen, who was stoned to death in acts, was "tired" of living and thus wasn't able to believe to be delivered. So, since martyrdom is the antithesis of the "abundant life" promised by PFAL and VP, and didn't gibe with his "health and wealth" gospel too well, I can see why VP would blame martyrdom on the believer's lack of believing, its the martyr's fault. I also think, yes, there are people who were/are martyred who had no business being martyred. From what I have gleaned, true martyrdom has a result. In some way, it opens doors and moves the Word so to speak. Unbelievers see it and are changed by it. In other words, there is a purpose for it, it is almost a "calling" so to speak. That person's death has a huge impact and changes things. From what I've also read those who were called to be martyrs, like anyone, are first afraid, then, its almost like they have been graced somehow - they are able to go their deaths looking up, at Him, and almost look forward to it - to be with Christ. I do think its a calling, and if you are to be a martyr, God will tell you and prepare you. Many people die "for God" but it is not a true "martyr" situation. I think there's a distinction in there somewhere. I read a sad account by a Roman centurion. His group was in charge of martyring the Christians. He finally wrote to the General, or some big honcho and basically said, why are we doing this again? Remind me. He said, they stand there, men, women, children and do nothing to defend themselves and just let his men butcher them. It was getting to him - killing innocent, helpless people. I don't think their religion mattered to him, it was killing these people, who were like sheep and didn't fight back. I imagine after awhile, you just feel like a murderer. He then wrote, but, if its your will, of course I shall continue on... I would imagine God called those people to live. It almost I think, at one point, martyrdom became the "in" thing to do and people who had no business being martyred joined the crowd. I think true martyrdom is a calling very few people are called to do in this administration. In the next, it will be different. Almost anyone who does believe will be martyred.

Hi Dot! I've really enjoyed the NIV Study Bible. It has great notes on the verses. That's been my mainstay for years now. Yes Penguin, it is amazing what we can learn, and how the scriptures can open to us after taking a break - for some a few years. But, we had so much Bible thrown at us, I think God doesn't mind us taking a "break" and getting back to regular living, and teaching us what he would like to teach us, in our own timeframe.

Peter pulls no punches, does he? I like Peter. He, John and James, were the only ones ever to see the Lord in his full glory (the transfiguration). It was conveniently skipped by VP, yet, I love reading that account. Yet, the transfiguration never left Peter - it blew his mind and changed his life. He knew who Christ really was and what he would be. It boggled his mind and changed his life, he mentions it a few times. I think Peter was able to see beyond the here and now, he had a much bigger picture in mind. I think I, II, III John, I and II Peter, and Jude are written specifically to those of us living in the last days so to speak, before the gathering and the tribulation kicks in. They are warnings so to speak, the times are getting worse, keep yourselves as a glory to Christ.

Hello Dot, what a wonderful post. I know when I left TWI, I just put my Bible down for a long time, a couple of years. But, the first thing I learned when I went back was: Christ. TWI never taught us Christ. We were taught about this Jesus who was human like we are and had an extra dose of Holy Spirit. It was John 1:1-4 that opened my eyes - Christ was God's Tabernacle, or Temple, on earth - Christ was God with us. The Word was God, the WORD WAS MADE FLESH. Whoa... that blew my little mind. Christ not only had humanity, he was divine. I did a word study - He is the apokalypse - the unveiler - literally - the one who takes away the veil. TWI never taught us that. He was a character up in the sky, coming back someday, so, no need really to talk with him and let Him into your heart today. Christ opens our eyes and enlightens our hearts - He is, the unveiler. Its not the Word, or teachers - its Christ. That's who teaches us. Ask Him to teach you. Just things, it doesn't necessarily have to be "the Word." When he becomes our center, our life, as we are his, He opens our eyes and we have no need that anyone teach us. I just think TWI's biggest tragedy is it did not teach us Christ - in all of his Glory or divinity. We wouldn't want Christ to steal Wierwille's thunder now, would we?

I remember Del Duncan speaking years ago. He said, why should any Christian be afraid of a devil spirit?? He said, they should be the ones quaking and shaking when they ran into us - Sons of God. I still agree with that today. He talked about how he went to meet Anton Zander LaVey - the head of the Satanic church, and the guy literally cringed just being around Del and couldn't get rid of him fast enough. That's neither here nor there, but the point is, yes, Christ overcame for us. He has delivered us from the Adversary's kingdom and all of his little hosts here. Just as Michael said, the Lord rebuke you, we can do the same. But, I have a feeling most of us, if we ever did run into a "real" devil spirit would faint. Actually, today, I think most of your real cases of possession, are in mental institutions, like the guy in the tombs. People can't deal with them and they are put away.

I don't think Judas was there at Pentecost. I don't have my Bible with me now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it says straightway he went and hanged himself. Also, Peter, before Pentecost, met with the disciples and said, we need to choose someone to take his place, he called him the one appointed to destruction - something like that. So, they chose Mathias to take his place. Then we see the 12 - with Mathias - at Pentecost. Judas wasn't there. I think an interesting point is, Jesus knew who Judas was. Yet, he loved him as the other disciples, let him carry the money, gave him every chance to repent, gave him the sop, signifying his love to him, at the last supper, i.e., treated him with loving kindness. Yet, man's heart can be hard and hateful against God. Judas refused the love of the Son of God and went out and betrayed him. What more could Christ have done? If you read the Gospels (which VP discouraged), its very interesting to see exactly what it is that Jesus preaches. His main preaching is this: The Kingdom of God is coming. Believe on me, and freely enter in. Israel would not, yet we do see the Kingdom fulfilled in Revelation. But the point is, I believe there is a new world, new kingdom coming. We can scoff, as Peter says in I or II Peter, but it will happen. Not everyone will enter. Judas rejected the offer. As far as I know, when Satan needed to make sure something was done right, he so far has entered into/enters into only two people - Judas (to make sure the Messiah is killed, so the Kingdom cannot come, so Satans rule will never end); and the Antichrist to come - the Beast. But no one can say Christ did not give Judas every opportunity to come to him.

Its SCIENCE. Who am I to argue. I've been interested in astronomy, stars, planets, and universe since I was a kid with my large tripod telescope, finding the constellations, planets, etc. It has nothing to do with the Bible. The SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS is, no, probably not. The more they learn, the more they are seeing, probably not. There are other planets, but there must also be certain, exact factors, for life to happen. We seem to be a unique random accident. It will be interesting to see what Mars has.

If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.

Cool thoughts Eyes. I think many people in TWI had "longsuits" they were very, very good at, but TWI's doctrine knocked it out of them, or got them to doubt, or got them to totally disbelieve and say - shove it. For example, Notinkansas, you say people in your family "know" things, and you did too, but probably not as much as when you were in TWI. What I see is maybe you and others in your family were very good at operating "Word of Knowledge" - of course, not knowing what it was, but it blessed those in your family. Or, there were people who didn't talk much, but when they did everyone listened because they usually had a solution to a problem, or a deep thought that blessed a lot of people - Word of Wisdom. Lots of other examples. There were many people who really did build up and bless the body, in various ways, but sadly, most of them did not make it to the "top." They were driven out eventually. Here's my last angel story. It was about 10:00 on a hot summer night in Manhattan, 1993. I had met a friend for a drink up on Broadway and was walking a few blocks home to my apartment right near Riverside Drive - the upper west side, lovely neighborhood, people out all hours of the day and night, hanging out, walking the dogs, etc. The building on the corner is having some work done on it and has scaffolding going up the side. I go under the little walkway they've made. Its like a little tunnel. I'm getting near the end and I see these two homeless guys, who have come up from the river coming towards me as I'm almost out of the tunnel. One tall, one short. I know something's coming. I just thought to myself, "Father, help." I knew if I tried to run, they'd catch me, plus, I just got new Doc Marten hightops and they weren't broken in yet and there was no way I could really run in those. So, I looked them in the eye, and walked right between them and kept going. there is not a soul on the street. Nowhere, no one. I hear them start whispering. I hear them running, I turn and look back and they are coming for me. I run, but the big one cuts me off. I back up to a car with a little tree on my left. Across is an alley. I have decided I will hang on to the tree come hell or high water if they decide to drag me down the alley. The tall one says, give us your money 'darlin. I put my hand in my pocket... All of a sudden we hear yelling. This guy is running down the sidewalk at us in full force, yelling, stop it, stop it. We were all kind of mesmerized by him. He had on pale blue jeans, a blue jacket, blond hair and I could not stop looking at his eyes - the most incredible blue eyes as he was coming towards us. The muggers looked at me, we looked back at the man and they fled. The guy comes running towards me. He says, did they pull a knife on you? I said no. He said, go call 911, tell them officer needs assistance as he kept running after them. So, I run up to my apartment, they tell me to wait outside, the police car if they catch them will bring them by for my id. I wait and wait, it never comes. Now of course, the street is full of people. My best friend's boyfriend was a cop in that precinct. I told her about it and told her to tell BT to thank that officer. BT told her, there is no blond blue-eyed officer working in this precinct. Hmm... I think for some reason, God has sent angels in life-threatening situations. We are told they are ministers to us who are heirs of salvation. I have a feeling someday, when we know all, we will be absolutely amazed what was done by them for us. I find it interesting we are told, one aspect of our heavenly calling when we are new creations in a new body, is that we will rule over them. I do believe we have all of us, dealt with them "unawares." Even you Mythreecents :)

It was my interim year in Brooklyn, NY, 1977-78. It was winter and NYC got hit with one of the biggest blizzards in years. They let us go early from work (I worked in Manhattan). The snow was really coming down, I luckily managed to get on the last B train going to Brooklyn. I had my little pocket bible and had been reading that, thankful to be able to make it home. I wasn't from Brooklyn and knew my area, but its a very large borough and did not know the rest of it. Suddenly, the loudspeaker comes on. They are stopping the train. No more trains at all, everything's becoming snowed in. Hmm. I get up to look at the map, with a bunch of other people. I'm somewhere in the middle of Brooklyn, have no clue where I am, have no idea how I'll get home and it looks like a very long walk ahead in the blizzard. Then, I feel a tap on my shoulder. This sweet little old man says to me, do you know where you are? I said no. He says, do you know how to get home? I said no. He says, I live in Bensonhurst, follow me (Bensonhurst was the section I also lived in). We left the subway, walked a few blocks and there was a bus. We got on. I think it was the last bus running. As I said, it was a couple of blocks away, I'm in a strange neighborhood, and I did not know the Brooklyn bus system. I never would have found it. We are almost the only people on it. As we are riding and I watch the snow come down, it dawned on me, this is an angel - whoa. I looked at him and said, may I ask you a question? You're going to think I'm crazy. He says, sure. I said, are you an angel? He looks at me, laughs and says, no, I'm just an old Jew, as he's laughing. Finally, he says, here's your stop. I thanked him and got off. I was on my block. Now, this guy picks me out of a group of people, is from my neighborhood, Bensonhurst which all italian, and knows exactly where the last bus is that's running. I also know, angels appear in context with the situation. In other words, I think God sends them and they blend into the surroundings so as not to cause alarm. The city was stopped dead for almost a week and it took a few more for it to dig out. I really believe it was an angel that got me home. I have one more incident I'll share in a bit.

Ahh Newlife - there it was, you nailed it. Ordination - the carrot on the stick for the men of the corps in TWI. If you were faithful, went corps, and ran lots of classes, you too could be ordained. From there, maybe be a limb or region leader, or the ultimate pinnacle - coordinate the corps. You don't know how many young men I met in the corps, whose great goal and drive was ordination. It was definitely the reward VP used to keep his young men in TWI. I sometimes think it should have been the women being ordained instead of some of the men they ordained. For example, in her book, Kris was probably the one who should have been ordained. She had done wonderful things for other people and teaching them the Word through years. I know there were men who married certain ordained women, just so they too would be ordained. Sad. Eyes - LOL - yes, we were standing still, weren't we? Except, I never did find my "groove" in TWI - never did quite fit within the nine dots - as DM used to tell me. I hope others will read this book too. Her account wasn't an exception - I think it was quite common of what many people went through in TWI - I think many people will be able to relate to a lot of what's in there. Maybe not the same experiences, but the way of thinking, the way people thought. The way TWI taught us to think.

Avondale, I am so sorry to read about your sister, I love my little sister and would have been in total despair if something like that had happened in my family. Newlife, thanks for sharing. Oddly enough, it was attending ACOA meetings after I left HQ and went on the field, that really opened my eyes and gave me great deliverance from the TWI mindset. Avondale, I don't think VP "planned" for it. As we've discussed here before on this forum, his PFAL class was really B.G. Leonard's class, which after B.G. let VP teach his class, VP changed the name, copyrighted it, and started teaching it as his own. So, it was the Word being taught that changed us, but it wasn't coming from the "heart" of our "teacher" - VP, he was teaching someone else's class. That's why the dichotomy - how could the "man of God" be such a prick in daily life when offstage? Simple, I don't think he really believed what he taught. I think he was very surprised how his ministry grew. Also, it was the hippie days, the sexual revolution was in full swing, and a lot of those early hippie girls from CA and the midwest, those 18, 19, in their twenties, it was probaby no big deal to do it with the "Man of God." But, the younger kids who grew up under VP's ministry, like Kris, who were only 13, 14 - young teens, had to be eased and manipulated into it. He was a predator, pure and simple. I think the opening dialog in Kris' book does a great job of explaining it. Talking about the beginning of her involvement in TWI, a counsellor says: It must have been terrible. Kris replies: "No. It was beautiful, really. Glorious. Like riding the crest of a tsunami, like nothing any of us had ever felt. We were all swept away by it. And, really, that's kind of the way it was. As she then says,"then it changed, then it started to destroy us one by one." I believe most of the people VP got in TWI were already born again. One thing the boomer parents did do, was take us little kids to Sunday School. As we got older, we quit going. But I think most of VP's followers were already born again as kids. Sure, many did get born again in PFAL, but as we've also read, many did fake SITing. I think many didn't get born again. Many of us saw red flags, and dismissed them, because it was "the Word, the Word, nothing but the Word." Where would we go, we were the only ministry that had "the Word"? I know for me, it was easy to dismiss things as just a weird, one time thing, they really didn't mean that, a leader would never do that... I know for me, it took being on staff, seeing TWI up close, to realize, hey, just as most people who went in the corps had strange, dysfunctional backgrounds, now it was being run by the same people. I started to see what a bunch of petty, idiots were running the place. During the ROA, there was an incident - the one tiny little straw that broke the camel's back. So, I just told them, right before corps placements, here's where I'm going, I don't care if you like it or not, give me a corps assignment or not, I'm going on the field, I'm outta here...

I agree Avondale, TWI offered us a safe haven in those chaotic times. Kris made another wonderful statement in her book when she said, "They [her parents] raised me liberally, without doctrine or structures...but their lack of directedness had an unintended consequence. I looked for another anchor, one stronger and steadier than myself or my parents." That to me so beautifully sums up why so many of us got into TWI. We were without structure (me and most of my friends anyway) and were looking for an anchor - TWI, the Word, offered that safe harbor. I finally finished her book. I found it excellent. I recommend it. She shares her thoughts, what was going on in her mind the whole time. For anyone wondering, what happened????!!! How did we end up there? She articulates is wonderfully. One other thing she said interested me. I know in many religions, especially in ancient times, you had the "mystery" religions. Where the regular people were taught one thing, but the special "initiates" were initiated into the deepest mysteries - only a select few could handle it. After he finally gets her in bed after explaining grace, etc. she writes "the Doctor has ushered me nto the deeper mystery of the Word, where grace reigns supreme.... I am initiated." The great depths of the Word, according to VP - adultry is good, because grace reigns supreme. We can do anything - because grace reigns supreme. Does not Paul in Romans and other places say, do not use grace as an excuse to sin? I just found it interesting - for the "top" most "spiritual" people in TWI, the great deep, secret wasn't Christ - it was sex. It was all about sex.