Mark Sanguinetti

Happy Birthday Radar. I am glad I spotted this. You were always one of my favorite believers in Christ in TWI. Have fun on your special day and maybe I will talk to you again in person sometime. From your college Bro, Mark Sanguinetti

In this column would Satori be the roastor or the roastee? I get confused sometimes. :blink:

Watered Garden. Take the best digital photo that you can of it and then put if up for auction on E-Bay. Include the word Wierwille in the headline item description. I just sold some PFAL books on E-Bay and will make about $200 in total after shipping and E-Bay costs. If you need any help on this let me know or you can try to send me a PM.

Let me see if I got this straight. A Middle Eastern woman shows up at Kansas State University at a Nationally televised and recorded Question and Answer session with George Bush. She says she has lost 10 family members and 2 of her female relatives are members of the Iraqi Parliament. Then she proceeds to praise Mr. Bush without reservation while telling everyone to never question your president. Golly gee, sounds to me like a typical day in Kansas. Frankly, I think even George was a little embarrassed. Maybe George got a flash back of a previous press conference where he asked for the name and questions of someone who was not even in attendance. Nice to know that this plant actually showed up. Very heart warming. It is so nice to know that our politicians are making progress in Iraq afterall.

Belle, your last post here was fascinating. What year did they quit printing the PFAL books?

You guys are funny. However, I think there is some bad doctrine mixed in with all major denominations. Just look at some of what the Roman Catholic and Mormon churches teach for an example. Then there is the school of thought for Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson. Personally, I think if people are not pressured into swallowing all their hog wash that they will be able to eventually separate truth from error. Besides, everyone that wins anything from me I am going to send some of my teachings to also. Some of which will contradict some of Wierwille's teachings. For example, everyone will get a copy of my Lordship of Jesus Christ paper teaching them doctrinally to stay clear of overbearing religious rulers.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I start most of my descriptions with the following disclaimer: "Although, I don’t necessarily believe that everything in this book is true or biblically accurate." There is nothing terribly wrong with the material as long as they are not like Mike and think that it is all God breathed and without error. The class is a study aid and nothing else. Most of the bad things that came into the Way Denomination were a result of people being lorded over through the Way Tree structure or the Way Corps, in my opinion. I am selling it because I have run out of shelf space at my office and I have not read any of it in over 15 years. I recently bought a bunch of Real Estate books to help me pass the California RE Brokers test so I need the shelf space. I sold some of my material already last year. However, I am going to keep one copy each of "Are the Dead Alive Now?", "Jesus Christ Our Passover" and "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed."

Does anyone here know? Are the PFAL series books still out of print? I believe they were at least out of print under Martindale's reign of terror. I suppose since they were better than what he had, a man of his weak character would be jealous. I was looking at their web site and I saw one photo of them, but nothing else.

Hi Chuck: Good to hear from you and happy birthday.

I went in to Manhattan yesterday to see a Broadway show, Spamalot. It was good. Very clever and funny with some good acting and singing. Spamalot is based on the "Mony Python and the Hoy Grail." movie. It is a musical.

Thanks for posting here. However, I decided not to try to go into New York for New Years Eve. Someone I sat by waiting for my flight in San Francisco used to work in Manhattan. He said that it would be wall to wall people and very hard to get around on New Years eve. He said this was about the worst day of the year to be there. He said there may be 500,000 people coming from out of town and thousands and thousands of police on duty. He also said that riding the subway out of there might be especially time consuming. In glancing at the T.V. new years eve and seeing the mass crowds of standing people. This told me that he was correct. Plus, I flew in your California the night of Dec. 30 and did not sleep for 24 hours. I did get about 4 hours of sleep on the day of Dec. 31st which seemed to refresh me, but I did not want to risk getting stranded in New York City on new years eve and going through another night with no or little sleep. Instead I stayed here in Trenton, NJ and went out to a local club and danced the night away with some of the locals. I Had a great time. I hope everyone else here had as good a new years eve as I did.

Thanks so much for your input Krysilis and Dmiller. I will be sure not to bring my "Impeach Bush" sign now. Besides it would have been ackward to bring on the Subway anyway. And who knows. Maybe since both of my hands will now be free I may be able to thwart a terrorist attack or two. Thanks again. And yes Times Square is a possibility. If I get on camera I promise to wave to y'all. Will you know what I look like? Oh what a minute (he has a thought). Maybe I should wear my Grease Spot Cafe tee-shirt. Would that help?

Hi Dave: Yes, it is really far from Minnesota to New York. And it is the same for most posters here. But thanks for your positive vibes anyway.

Satori, what kind of action are you referring to? Hmmm. Satori thinks this must be something that school children can't read about. What would that be Satori? Do you have a dirty mind? Satori you really should stay off this thread if this is your attitude.

Hello all you Grease Spotters. This California guy will be in the Big Apple on New Years Eve. If any of you will be in Manhattan and want to join my small party for New Years please communicate via this thread. Wordwolf can't make it because he has to work. Dag nabbit. However, he promised to give me a few hints as to where the action is.

Well if Rocky does read this. Happy Birthday Rocky.

Happy Birthday Ron. I must say I enjoy your posts and you are a pretty smart guy. Especially for a hillbilly. And David Miller, I get it now. Fiddle Picker means that you play the fiddle. Now that is one instrument that I enjoy listening to. If it wasn't for the fiddle I would never want to listen to country western music. Blue grass I like though.

Happy Birthday Paw.

Ron, I would have said that I liked your joke, but do not want to reveal anything negative about my character. However, I have flown to Dallas and with as much sincerity as I can muster did I miss anything?

What Pat Robertson does and says is very similar to what Craig Martindale did and said while he was president of The Way denomination. Except Pat does it on a much larger scale and is better funded. Yep, it is jejavu for us ex-Wayfers.

Ex, I am going to the U2 concert this Wednesday Nov. 9th. I won't be speechless. I will probably be cheering, hollering and dancing in the aisles.

Yes George, we all should know that religion can be cruel and sometimes illogical. However, if one has faith in a supreme being that results in godly fruit practiced by that individual such as love, joy, peace, etc. What is wrong with that? And George, perhaps you could tell us all why you are so convinced that there is no God. Or if you do believe in a supreme being of some kind, what are your beliefs?

Ex, I don't get it often, but when I get it, I get it real good. Or is that real bad? One time I even got it for a whole month. I almost never got out of bed. How about you? Of course, I mean the flu.

Wow, that really brought back memories. I mean of the flu.

Rejoice: Here are some of my thoughts with an article from the New Bible Dictionary below. So much of so called ordination is nothing more than the promulgation of religious hierarchy. We all should have figured out by now that for the church of God hierarchy is not biblical. We are a body and members in particular with Christ as the head. Another thing, I don't see religious ritual pertaining to this in the bible. This includes Acts 13:1-3. It seems the teachers and prophets prayed, layed hands on Paul and Barnabas and then sent them out. Any words that they spoke were for exhortation and comfort and, I am quite certain, were not to glorify either Paul nor the people doing the laying on of hands, but to glorify the Lord Jesus. If so called ordination is so important for the body of Christ, you would have to document this for every minister in the New Testament. To the people steeped in religious hierarchy that might benefit from this as a way of keeping control on the religious masses I say, regarding such a biblical endeavor, "Good Luck". Psalms 111:9 9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name. KJV The above is the only usage of the word reverend in the entire bible. Furthermore, it is a reference to God and not a believer. TWI claims that the bible is their only rule of faith and practice, yet they use unbiblical terminology for their leadership. Why should we allow them to elevate a few at the expense of others? Are not we all ministers of the gospel and ambassadors for Christ? Instead TWI and other unbiblical groups want to elevate their leadership above the common believer and in so doing bring idolatry to the church of God. The only Lord we have is the Lord Jesus Christ. I think we are much to soft on arrogant religious leaders that want to lord over and bully God's people for their own financial gain and religious esteem. If we followed Jesus' example we would not put up with religious tyranny. Jesus called these religious leaders, among other things, whited sepulchers and hypocrites. Perhaps we should follow his example. With regard to ordination, this word biblically simply means to appoint. Please read the below from the New Bible Dictionary. From the New Bible Dictionary, Second Edition, revised 1982 Ordination Considering the role played by the ministry throughout the history of the church, references to ordination are surprisingly few in the NT. Indeed, the word ‘ordination’ does not occur, and the verb ‘to ordain’ in the technical sense does not occur either. A number of verbs are translated ‘ordain’ in AV, but these all have meanings like ‘appoint’. For example, cheirotoneo is used of the institution of elders in certain Galations churches (Acts 14:23), but before we think of this as denoting ‘ordination’ in our sense of the term we must note its use in passages such as 2 Corinthians 8:19 where it refers to the brother who was ‘appointed by the churches to travel with us...’ The twelve were chosen by Christ to be very near to himself and to be sent forth to minister (Mark 3:14). But there is no word of any ceremony of ordination. Mark says that Jesus ‘made (poieo) twelve, and Luke that he ‘chose’ (eklego) them (Mark 3:14; Luke 6:13). This was a very solemn occasion (Luke tells us that Jesus prayed all night before making his selection). But there is no ‘ordination’ mentioned. John speaks of the risen Lord as breathing on the ten, saying, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit’ (John 20:22); but it is difficult to see an ordination in this. It is probably significant that when Matthias was known he was simply ‘enrolled’ or’numbered’ with the others (Acts 1:26). Similarly, prophets and others are called directly by God, though some at least are said to be ‘for the work of ministry’ (Ephesians 4:12; the word ‘ministry’ here is, of course, used of service in a wide sense). Luke tells us of the appointment of the Seven (Acts 6), and this is often understood as the institution of the diaconate. This may indeed be the case, but it is far from certain. Some think that the presbyterate is meant, and others deny that there is ordination to any ecclesiastical office. They think that Luke is describing nothing more than a temporary measure to meet a difficult situation. If the traditional view is accepted, then the essential thing about ordination is the laying on of hands with prayer. But in view of the uncertainties, and the wide use in antiquity of the laying on of hands, it is not possible to build much on this passage. Nor are we any better off when we read of elders as being appointed in the Galatian churches (Acts 14:23), for, while we may be tolerably sure that they were ordained in some way, nothing at all is told us of how this was done or what was expected of it. Our most important information comes from the Pastoral Epistles. Paul counsels Timothy, ‘Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders laid their hands upon you’ (1 Timothy 4:14). This passage yields us three items of information about Timothy’s ordination. First, it meant the giving to him of a charisma, the spiritual *gift needed for the work of ministering. Secondly, this came to him ‘by (dia) prophecy’. Thirdly, it came with (meta) the laying on of hands by the elders. The essential thing about ordination is the divine gift. Nothing can compensate for this lack. But there is also an outward act, the laying on of hands. It is possible that Paul refers to the same rite when he speaks of his own laying on of hands on Timothy (2 Tim. 1:6), though it should not be in mind, perhaps something more akin to Anglican confirmation than to ordination. We might be able to make a better judgement if we knew when this took place, whether at the beginning of Paul’s association with Timothy, or not long before the writing of the letter. If with most commentators we take this to refer to ordination, the meaning will be that Paul joined with the elders in the *laying on of hands, which in any case would be antecedently likely. It is probable that we have another reference to the same ordination in the words about ‘the prophetic utterances which pointed to you’ (1 Timothy 1:18). Ordination is always a solemn affair, and it may be that the words, ‘Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands’ (1 Timothy 5:22) emphasizes this. But in view of the context it is perhaps more likely that they refer to the reception of penitents back into fellowship. All this makes for a somewhat meagre harvest, which is all the more disappointing , since the Pastorals show us how important the *ministry was, especially the offices of presbyter and deacon. Titus, for example, is bidden ‘appoint (kathistemi) elders in every town’ (Titus 1:5), and much attention is paid to the qualifications for ministers. It is possible to suggest that the Christians took over the ordination of elders from the similar Jewish institution, but this does not get us far. All that we can say for certain, is that the important thing for ministering is the divine gift, and that the essential rite in the earliest time appears to have been that of the laying on of hands with prayer. (*Spiritual Gifts.)