Mark Sanguinetti

No, that did not help. I am not able to edit my posts anymore on this forum. That is not good. What happened to the edit button? It used to be in plain sight. Here edit button. Where are you? My buttons on my color generator pages are much easier to find than the edit button on this site. On my pages with links above you can click any color button on the left hand side of the page and the uniform colors change.

New question. Does this forum let me edit my posts anymore? I am now going to click the "Use Full Editor" button instead of the "Post" button and see if that helps.

I have been writing web pages lately. My web pages are pretty good, but I am having trouble with the Safari Internet browser. It does not read my web pages correctly in the area of Cascading Style Sheets. Specifically div tags. I use Div tags which is with the Cascading Style Sheet internet technology, but Safari is very slow to read them if it reads them at all. Then I updated a page today and Safari did not do the page update at all. I though there was something wrong until I went used Internet Explorer and Firefox and my pages looked fine using these browsers. Part of this thread is to blow off some steam. My pages are pretty good, but the Safari Internet browser technology wise sucks. Question now is what to do about this? Here are a couple of examples of pages that I updated or wrote in the last few days. http://www.reversiblesoccerjerseys.com/sparta-v-reversible-soccer-jerseys-color-generator.html http://www.reversiblesoccerjerseys.com/romano-reversible-soccer-jerseys-color-generator.html http://dynamoathletic.com/shorts.htm Well, even while I am writing this one of my technology associates called me and told me to refresh the browser. That I probably had an older version of Safari for the MacIntosh computer. When I hit the refresh version then the web pages loaded correctly. I may need to go to the MacIntosh web site and get an updated version. My pages now look fine the way I designed them and my question has been answered. But I am going to finish this post anyway.

I think that is a good analysis Sunesis and it might be true.

A good post by Goey. This is the kind of post on this subject that to me has valid considerations.

Thanks for clarifying yourself George. Incidentally, a question for everyone. How does one edit his posts on this forum now? With the new format I was looking for the edit button on one of my posts yesterday, but could not find it.

Dooj, thanks for reading my post before commenting. However, I disagree with you on this right now. When I commented on Waysider's original post I said that it sounded to me like Waysider thinks that tongues have ceased. Other people on this thread thought the same thing. For a few people here this was confusing to them. I disagree with Waysider on this and I have noticed other people disagreed with him also. Just because my method of communication is a bit more forward than others does not mean I am being condescending. Just for the record again, I do not think speaking in tongues has ceased for our time now and I made that very clear in my past posts. Now I am sure that a number of you have many good things to comment on this subject so I will not be commenting anymore here.

Dooj, you really are being illogical tonight with me. Why is that? Haven't you ever studied anything in school or had a teacher who knew more than you about a particular subject? With regard to a knowledge of God and godliness, sure God can tell us things. But don't you think studying the writings of Paul from the New Testament (no I don't mean Victor) would help us gain some needed understanding? And if you really want to prove TWI wrong don't you see the value of beating them at their own game. Namely knowing the bible better than them? It is possible to do that if we pool our research. However, if we waste our time on petty arguments we are going to end up looking like fools.

Honestly Dooj. You are not making any sense right now. Why don't you read some of the posts here before commenting any more tonight. And no, if you don't like my posts then you don't have to read them. But if you want to comment on them then please read them so that you actually know what I have said here.

And I really do like George, but he is not someone to discuss the bible with because I really don't think he likes the book or the content. Can you understand that Dooj? And I think George can defend himself. He is very good at this. Dooj, he does not need you to defend him. You are wasting both of our time right now.

Dooj, you are not making any sense at all. And then you call me Boy. You are wasting my time and really not making any sense. Do you want to have a discussion or do you just want someone to argue with?

And Dooj, your observations don't seem very factual to me right now. Sorry to have to tell you this. My point is why do you want to discuss any body of knowledge just to prove something wrong when you don't like the particular body of knowledge in the first place? If you want to find something wrong with TWI's doctrine then do some actual bible study and specifically point to the places from the bible where they are wrong. How hard is that?

Dooj, I do not have the time to read every single post on this thread. I just read it now however. It offered no specific information. It was to general in nature.

As much as I consider George a very likeable person, he sure does not know me very well and what I believe as far as Christianity is concerned. George, if you actually want to know what I believe about Christian authority then read this. http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-of-jesus-christ-page-1.html

The problem Waysider is that you started this entire thread without biblical insight. You took a verse "tongues shall cease" out of context from where it is placed in the scriptures in 1 Corinthians chapter 13. First of all when you started this thread it really should have been started in the doctrinal forum where people who read the bible tend to gather. Next, you should have been more specific as to which TWI doctrines you did not agree with. Instead you made a blanket statement implying that none of what TWI taught was biblical regarding speaking in tongues. Sorry, but not even Adolph Hitler was wrong all the time. I am sure that TWI had some things they taught correctly and some things that they taught incorrectly. It is up to you, I and others to be more specific with the help of honest study to determine what that might be. And George, what do you actually believe that is written in the bible? Do you believe any of it was inspired by God? Do you even believe there is a God? Do you even believe that a man named Jesus or a man named Paul at one time walked the face of the earth and taught people stuff?

The below is word for word from the Nelson Bible Dictionary. The vocabulary is a little different calling it the "gift of tongues" instead of "speaking in tongues". However, vocabulary is not always important and is secondary at best. What is important is the spiritual reality and impact of speaking in tongues which this highly respected biblical commentary makes clear. Speaking in tongues is not only clearly stated and practiced in the New Testament, but is a genuine work of the Holy Spirit. TONGUES, GIFT OF The Spirit-given ability to speak in languages not known to the speaker or in an ecstatic language that could not normally be understood by the speaker or the hearers. Apparently the only possibly direct reference in the Old Testament to speaking in another tongue or language is found in Isa 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people." This seems to be a reference to an invasion of the Assyrians. They apparently would speak in another language, one probably unknown to the people of Israel. The apostle Paul later applied this verse to speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:21). The apostle Peter considered the phenomenon of speaking in tongues that occurred on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (Joel 2:28-32). In an appearance to His disciples after His resurrection, Jesus declared, "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17). On the Day of Pentecost, the followers of Christ "were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4). The people assembled in Jerusalem for this feast came from various Roman provinces representing a variety of languages. They were astonished to hear the disciples speaking of God's works in their own languages. Some have suggested that the miracle was in the hearing rather than in the speaking. This explanation, however, would transfer the miraculous from the believing disciples to the multitude who may not have been believers. Tongues as a gift of the Spirit is especially prominent in 1 Cor 12 and 14. In 1 Cor 12 the phenomenon of tongues is listed with other gifts of the Spirit under the term gifts. As one of the several gifts given to believers as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, tongues is intended, with the other gifts, to be exercised for the building up of the church and the mutual profit of its members. In 1 Cor 13 the apostle Paul puts the gift of tongues in perspective by affirming that though we "speak with the tongues of men and of angels" (v. 1), if we do not have love, the gift of tongues has no value. In 1 Cor 14 Paul deals more specifically with the gift of tongues and its exercise in the church. In this chapter the tongue is not an intelligible language, for it cannot be understood by the listeners. Therefore, a parallel to the gift of tongues is the gift of interpretation. The gift of tongues was used as a means of worship, thanksgiving, and prayer. While exercising this gift, the individual addresses God not man; and the result is to edify himself and not the church (1 Cor 14:2,4). This gift is never intended for self-exaltation but for the praise and glorification of God. Paul does not prohibit speaking in tongues in a public service (14:39). But he seems to assign it to a lesser place than the gift of prophecy. Paul claims for himself the gift of tongues-speaking, but apparently he exercised this gift in private and not in public (14:18-19). The gift of tongues is to be exercised with restraint and in an orderly way. The regulations for its public use are simple and straightforward. The person who speaks in an unknown tongue is to pray that he may interpret (1 Cor 14:13). Or, someone else is to interpret what he says. Only two or three persons are to speak, with each having an interpretation of what he says. Each is also to speak in turn. If these criteria are not met, they are to remain silent (1 Cor 14:27-28). The gifts of speaking in tongues and their interpretation are to be Spiritinspired. Paul also points out that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. If these guidelines are not observed, unbelievers who are present will conclude that the people of the church are out of their minds. The phenomenon of speaking in tongues described in the New Testament is not some psychological arousal of human emotions that results in strange sounds. This is a genuine work of the Holy Spirit. (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright ©1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

The bible says clearly that the apostle Paul both prayed with his understanding and prayed in the spirit. 1 Cor 14:15-16 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. NKJV Seeing that there are 16 usages of the word tongue(s) or speaking in tongues in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 alone, if you read it, it is very clear that speaking in tongues is prayer in the spirit. Now if one does not want to follow Paul's biblical example they may do so. But I would never preach against this. Wierwille had nothing to do with the written work of 1 Corinthians. This was done by Paul in the first century. And anyone is free to comment on chapters in the bible if they are willing to take the time. Here is my commentary on 1 Corinthians chapter 12. http://christianherald.info/1-corinthians-12-page-1.html And the last time I checked 1 Corinthians chapter 14 still ended with these two verses. 1 Cor 14:39-40 39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. NIV

Yes, the valid and factual biblical material we have proof that VPW copied from bible researchers and teachers. However, the bad and useless stuff he perhaps made up himself. For example, who else do you know that teaches that the original sin was masterbation?

It has been a while since I worked this, but as I recall Jesus was actually quoting from a scripture, Psalms 22:1. I quickly read chapter 22 and it starts out tragic and sad (death does that), but by the end of the chapter it ends victoriously. Just like Jesus' crucifixion and then resurrection. Perhaps people that heard him say this and were familiar with Psalms 22 thought in spite of the death involved that it would have a victorious ending.

The probem with The Way International is not that there are to many chiefs and not enough indians. The problem is that the real chief, Jesus Christ, is not looked to as the Lord and head of the body of believers or is left out all together. Sorry to have to tell anyone, but no one takes the place of the absent Christ, not even with a renewed mind. Christ is not absent from his own body. This would be like saying that a human being can function with his head cut off. For a more godly perspective on leadership and lordship in the body of Christ try the link below. http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-o...ist-page-1.html

A good explanation of TWI's errant and arrogant doctrine as written by Chockfull. Now compare this with what is actually written in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. For a commentary on this chapter in the bible click the link below. http://www.christianherald.info/1-corinthians-12-page-1.html

I was thinking the same thing that Leafytwiglet just wrote. Just did not have time to express it in writing because of my work schedule. Glad to see Leafytwiglet expressed this. I want to second what Leafy just wrote.

Below is a link to the type of teaching that she needs to free herself of Way doctrine. It comes down to who is Lord and whose example of Lordship does one follow? The Way International leadership or the Lord Jesus Christ. http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-o...ist-page-1.html

The worse thing about the Way International is their hierarchical power structure with all religious authority at the top and with varying degrees as you go down their religious ladder. This is very much unbiblical. Here is something that I wrote that will help you in dealing with them on this. It is titled "the Lordship of Jesus Christ contrasting the lordship of Imperfect Man". Jesus Christ is Lord and not the people at the top of any religious hierarchy. Learn this lesson well and they will NEVER be able to pull anything deceptive against you. Jesus Christ was an example of service in dealing with man and our brothers and sisters in Christ. If any religious group does not show service to their brothers and sisters in Christ then they are worseless as an organization. And if any denominaiton or group insists on using controling religious power over others then they are less than worseless. Read and study this article with link below and you will not only increase your love and respect for Jesus Christ, but you will also be able to deal with most of anything that they throw at you when it comes to their religious controling power structure. The only man who is Lord is Jesus Christ. http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-o...ist-page-1.html

Happy Birthday M-Star. Been to any gay weddings lately? I hope all is well.