Mark Sanguinetti

Below is a link to a very good article and study that compares the baptism of the holy spirit to water baptism. It is written by John Lynn. People may not always agree with John and this is O.K. However, John is a legitimate teacher of the bible and does his best to teach the true Word of God. And I am sure John has edited this written work and learned this biblical subject over a period of time with honesty, meekness and a work ethic. I read the first four chapters of this and overall, especially pertaining to the study of water baptism and the baptism of the holy spirit, it is biblical, factual and truthful. Also this is written in a manner that does not oppose water baptism. John simply states the obvious using bible verses. That the baptism of the holy spirit has a greater effect, spiritual significance and usage for the body of Christ. The below link is freely provided from John's web site with his article written in an easy to save PDF file format. You can then easily read this on your computer at no cost. One more important thing. John has some serious health problems now. Please keep him in your prayers and pray with myself and others for his complete recovery. For details on John's ailment see the Grease Spot Cafe forum thread, Spirit and Truth Fellowship International. What Is True Baptism?

Hi Steve. That sounds like a valid point you just made. A very good bible teacher did a written work on what you just mentioned. His name is Dr. Ernest L. Martin. Here is a link to his written study titled, Just What is God. I think you will do well in your study. Another very valid point is that denominational churches spend to much time and have to much emphasis on church history. This can turn into the tradition of men which our Lord Jesus Christ was against and clearly spoke against. Focus on your study of the bible, learning and using Greek words and you should do very well. I even had a debate on the trinity with a Greek Orthodox church leader. It was so one sided with other church leaders hearing our debate that the next leader of the same church knew not to debate me on this subject. Of course, my goal is simply to help them with their knowledge of the bible and I printed out the study of Jesus Christ from the Nelson Bible Dictionary and gave the new church pastor a copy. This was of course to help him with his knowledge and since their church uses the New King James Version of the Bible and since Nelson Publishes this version along with the Nelson Bible Dictionary the new pastor knew this study could be helpful. At least as long as he looks at the bible clearly without church tradition. Below is the conclusion of Ernest Martin's study. See this also in 1 Corinthians chapter 15. In the future after Jesus Christ has put all things under Him, then God will be all in all and Jesus Christ turns back His authority of the salvation of mankind to God His Father. See verses 20-28. So, “Just What Is God?” Elohim is the ONE divine Family to which all of us belong and into which we will be born at our resurrections from the dead. All of us of the human race have a glorious future awaiting us. We are all destined in Christ Jesus to partake of the Godhead (divine Headquarters of the universe) and be members of that ONE Family for the rest of eternity. This is not “New Age” teaching. It is “Old Age” doctrine that comes directly from the plain statements of the Holy Scriptures. It is the truth of God and His Son, Jesus Christ. What the so-called “New Agers” have done is to take a central truth of the Scripture and color it with the errors of eastern pagan mysticism. And true enough, we are not only to become “Gods” (deified) in the very Family of God, but we are already acknowledged as members of that Family in our present human existence (1 John 3:1–2). This doctrine of the Deification of the human race did NOT originate with the “New Agers.” It comes directly from the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.

Very good points by Wordwolf. Steve, you also have the potential to bring good biblical knowledge to this forum and you have done this. However, please don't make up stuff about Victor Wierwille and the trinity. Not everything that Victor Wierwille taught was unbiblical or untruthful. What he taught that was truthful he learned from other people. For example, E.W. Bullinger, who did not believe in the trinity. If you disagree look at his book How to Enjoy the Bible. Wierwille also learned about the Gift of holy spirit from people like J.E. Stiles with his book The Gift of Holy Spirit and another person that I forgot the name of who I understand he knew personally. He also may have learned the bible from a very good bible teacher, Dr. Ernest L. Martin. None of these people taught the trinity or likely believed in it. If you don't believe this get a copy of Bullinger's book, How to Enjoy the Bible and see if the trinity is mentioned at all. I have a copy of this book and I looked up in the index the word trinity and this word is not listed at all. Dr. Ernest L. Martin did not believe in the trinity. If you don't believe this then go to this web page, with his teaching titled Just What is God. Here is a quote from this, "So the Godhead in the Hebrew language is filled with plural significance, and not limited to three personalities as the false Trinity doctrine teaches." Wierwille was not all bad. He learned from other people truth and he also thought up unbiblical non-truth like his errant doctrine of the original sin being masturbation. I did talk to him once in the year 1984 when he was with his best friend, whose name I forget. I saw the fundamental problem with the Way ministry how some people were looked highly upon and others were looked lowly upon and tried to correct this. When I walked up to Victor Wierwille I simply told him you look familiar, but I can't remember your name, but it sounds something like wear something. Victor then played along with me and said Wierwolf and we all laughed. Victor Wierwille was not bad all the time. Some times he was O.K. and I consider him an actual bible teacher, but NOT the Teacher. The teacher is Jesus Christ and the best teacher for the New Testament was a real life apostle, the apostle Paul.

1 Corinthians chapter 15 is the best chapter in the bible that I see as describing the new body that Christ has which we will also get in the future. I recommend reading this chapter and studying it. I will be writing a bible commentary on this chapter this summer as I have already written commentaries on chapters 12, 13 and 14. 1 Corinthians 15 does differentiate the different body types. This chapter now says Jesus has a spiritual body. We will get this spiritual body type in the future also. The Resurrection Body 1 Corinthians 15 35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. 50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. BODY, SPIRITUAL The body of a person after its resurrection and glorification, no longer subject to sin, disease, and death. After His resurrection, Jesus was not a ghost or a spirit; he was able to eat "a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb" (Luke 24:42). And yet Jesus' body already had certain spiritual qualities. Even before His ascension He was able to enter a room where His disciples were assembled, although the doors were shut (John 20:19). The apostle Paul specifically mentions the "spiritual body" in his first epistle to the Corinthians (1 Cor 15:42-44). Paul made it clear that the spiritual body is not subject to sin or death. Paul encouraged believers to hold fast to their faith in Christ, who will give them their spiritual body in the life to come. (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright ©1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers) With Jesus’ ascension to the right hand of God, Jesus is doing greater spiritual things now than he did right after His resurrection. This is true even though his body may not have changed. However, it looks like Jesus has spiritual body options for how his body performs and this depends on what He needs to do. This is an interesting subject to analyze. Here is another biblical study on this, which looks scriptural and truthful. BODY, SPIRITUAL (spir'-it-u-al): Paul describes the body after the resurrection as a spiritual body (soma psuchikon) and contrasts it with the natural (psychical body, soma pneumatikon, 1 Cor 15:44). Our present natural body has for its life-principle the soul (psuche) but the resurrection body is adapted and subordinated to the spirit (pneuma). See PSYCHOLOGY. The apostle does not argue for a literal and material identity of that future body with the present one, but thinks of it as the counterpart of the present animal organism so conditioned as to be adapted to a state of existence which lies wholly within the sphere of the spirit. Against his Corinthian readers he argues that the resurrection cannot be succeeded by a state of non-existence, nor is he willing to admit a mere etherealized state. There must be a body, but between it and our present body there is a similar difference to that between the first and second Adam. The present body and the first Adam were alike dominated by the soul (psuche); but as the second Adam became a life-giving spirit, so will the resurrection body be a spiritual one. Christ became a life-giving spirit through the resurrection (Meyer on 1 Cor 15:45); and since we are to bear His image (verse 49), it becomes evident that Christ's resurrection-body is the nearest possible approach to a sensible representation of the spiritual body. For this Paul argues more directly when he affirms that our resurrection-body shall be transformed according to the body of His glory (Phil 3:21; compare 1 John 3:2). The body of Christ after the resurrection was conformed in many respects to the body of His earthly life, yet with some marked differences. He ate (Luke 24:42-43); He breathed (John 20:22); possessed flesh and bones (Luke 24:39), and could be apprehended by the bodily senses (Luke 24:40; John 20:27). His body possessed characteristics which differentiated it entirely from the popular fancy of ghosts or apparitions (Luke 24:36-43). Yet His body was superior to the usual barriers which restrict human movements. Barred doors and distances did not impede His going (John 20:19-26; Luke 24:31-36). The context shows that the purpose of His eating was to convince the disciples that it was really He (Luke 24:41-43), and not to sustain life which His body was probably capable of maintaining in other ways. John speaks of His appearances after His resurrection as "manifestations" (John 21:1-21). A change in His person and appearance had certainly taken place, for those who knew Him best did not at once recognize Him (Luke 24:16; John 20:14). It is evident therefore that the post-resurrection-body of Jesus was one that had the power of materializing itself to natural senses, or withdrawing itself at will. It was this same body which was taken into the heavens at the ascension, and which remains in heaven (Acts 1:11; 3:21). There is no hint that it underwent any change in its removal from earth. Hence, the spiritual body of which Paul speaks is not to be unlike the body which Jesus possessed after His resurrection. There is to be an absence of the desires and passions which belong naturally to the present bodily existence (Matt 22:30; Luke 20:35-36). William Charles Morro (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright ©1996 by Biblesoft)

We see from the scriptures that Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God with about 50 references in the New Testament as I remember. He is called and referred to scripturally as the Son of Man also with even more scriptural references than the Son of God. Regarding God His Father, I see a perfect relationship between Jesus Christ, the Son and God the Father. God and His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, who always did the will of the Father and is now at the right hand of God making intercession for the saints is our connection to God. We have only been adopted as children of God, while Jesus Christ is the only begotten, by actual physical birth, Son of God. Without our relationship with Jesus Christ our relationship with God His Father would be limited or non-existent. God and Jesus Christ are perfectly in harmony with Jesus Christ always doing the will of His Father God and God has delegated all authority to His Son for our age as it pertains to the church and the salvation of mankind. Finally according to 1 Corinthians chapter 15, when God and Jesus Christ meet their goal of God being all in all, then Jesus Christ gives that authority back to God his Father.

My friend from Noo Yawk, at least that is how I pronounce it, asked me to post this, WordWolf. This is a study from the Nelson Bible Dictionary which is the equivalent of a biblical encyclopedia with all the information and quoted scriptures as part of the study. This publisher, Nelson, is also the publisher of the New King James Version of the bible. JESUS CHRIST From Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright ©1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers The human-divine Son of God born of the Virgin Mary; the great High Priest who intercedes for His people at the right hand of God founder of the Christian church and central figure of the human race. To understand who Jesus was and what He accomplished, students of the New Testament must study: (1) His life, (2) His teachings, (3) His person, and (4) His work. The Life of Jesus. The twofold designation Jesus Christ combines the personal name Jesus and the title Christ, meaning "anointed" or "Messiah." The significance of this title became clear during the scope of His life and ministry. Birth and upbringing – Jesus was born in Bethlehem, a town about ten kilometers (six miles) south of Jerusalem, toward the end of Herod the Great's reign as king of the Jews (37-4 B.C.). Early in His life He was taken to Nazareth, a town of Galilee. There He was brought up by His mother, Mary, and her husband, Joseph, a carpenter by trade. Hence He was known as "Jesus of Nazareth" or, more fully, "Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John 1:45). Jesus was His mother's firstborn child; he had four brothers (James, Joses, Judas, and Simon) and an unspecified number of sisters (Mark 6:3). Joseph apparently died before Jesus began His public ministry. Mary, with the rest of the family, lived on and became a member of the church of Jerusalem after Jesus' death and resurrection. The only incident preserved from Jesus' first 30 years (after his infancy) was His trip to Jerusalem with Joseph and Mary when He was 12 years old (Luke 2:41-52). Since He was known in Nazareth as "the carpenter" (Mark 6:3), He may have taken Joseph's place as the family breadwinner at an early age. The little village of Nazareth overlooked the main highway linking Damascus to the Mediterranean coast and Egypt. News of the world outside Galilee probably reached Nazareth quickly. During His boyhood Jesus probably heard of the revolt led by Judas the Galilean against the Roman authorities. This happened when Judea, to the south, became a Roman province in A.D. 6 and its inhabitants had to pay tribute to Caesar. Jews probably heard also of the severity with which the revolt was crushed. Galilee, the province in which Jesus lived, was ruled by Herod Antipas, youngest son of Herod the Great. So the area where He lived was not directly involved in this revolt. But the sympathies of many Galileans were probably stirred. No doubt the boys of Nazareth discussed this issue, which they heard their elders debating. There is no indication of what Jesus thought about this event at the time. But we do know what he said about it in Jerusalem 24 years later (Mark 12:13-17). Sepphoris, about six kilometers (four miles) northwest of Nazareth, had been the center of an anti-Roman revolt during Jesus' infancy. The village was destroyed by the Romans, but it was soon rebuilt by Herod Antipas. Antipas lived there as tetrarch of Galilee and Perea until he founded a new capital for his principality at Tiberias, on the western shore of the Lake of Galilee (A.D. 22). Reports of happenings at his court, while he lived in Sepphoris, were probably carried to Nazareth. A royal court formed the setting for several of Jesus' parables. Scenes from Israel's history could be seen from the rising ground above Nazareth. To the south stretched the Valley of Jezreel, where great battles had been fought in earlier days. Beyond the Valley of Jezreel was Mount Gilboa, where King Saul fell in battle with the Philistines. To the east Mount Tabor rose to 562 meters (1,843 feet), the highest elevation in that part of the country. A growing boy would readily find his mind moving back and forth between the stirring events of former days and the realities of the contemporary situation: the allpervasive presence of the Romans. Beginnings of Jesus' ministry – Jesus began His public ministry when He sought baptism at the hands of John the Baptist. John preached between A.D. 27 and 28 in the lower Jordan Valley and baptized those who wished to give expression to their repentance (Matt 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:29-34). The descent of the dove as Jesus came up out of the water was a sign that He was the One anointed by the Spirit of God as the Servant-Messiah of His people (Isa 11:2; 42:1; 61:1). A voice from heaven declared, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased" (Luke 3:22). This indicated that He was Israel's anointed King, destined to fulfill His kingship as the Servant of the Lord described centuries earlier by the prophet Isaiah (Isa 42:1; 52:13). In the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus' baptism is followed immediately by His temptation in the wilderness (Matt 4:1-11; Mark 1:12-13; Luke 4:1-13). This testing confirmed His understanding of the heavenly voice and His acceptance of the path which it marked out for Him. He refused to use His power as God's Son to fulfill His personal desires, to amaze the people, or to dominate the world by political and military force. Apparently, Jesus ministered for a short time in southern and central Palestine, while John the Baptist was still preaching (John 3:22-4:42). But the main phase of Jesus' ministry began in Galilee after John's imprisonment by Herod Antipas. This was the signal, according to Mark 1:14-15, for Jesus to proclaim God's Good News in Galilee: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel." What is the character of this kingdom? How was it to be established? A popular view was that the kingdom of God meant throwing off the oppressive yoke of Rome and establishing an independent state of Israel. JUDAS MACCABEUS and his brothers and followers had won independence for the Jewish people in the second century B.C. by guerrilla warfare and diplomatic skill. Many of the Jewish people believed that with God's help, the same thing could happen again. Other efforts had failed, but the spirit of revolt remained. If Jesus had consented to become the military leader, which the people wanted, many would gladly have followed Him. But in spite of His temptation, Jesus resisted taking this path. Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom of God was accompanied by works of mercy and power, including the healing of the sick, particularly those who were demon-possessed. These works also proclaimed the arrival of the kingdom of God. The demons that caused such distress to men and women were signs of the kingdom of Satan. When they were cast out, this proved the superior strength of the kingdom of God. For a time, Jesus' healing aroused great popular enthusiasm throughout Galilee. But the religious leaders and teachers found much of Jesus' activity disturbing. He refused to be bound by their religious ideas. He befriended social outcasts. He insisted on understanding and applying the law of God in the light of its original intention, not according to the popular interpretation of the religious establishment. He insisted on healing sick people on the Sabbath day. He believed that healing people did not profane the Sabbath but honored it, because it was established by God for the rest and relief of human beings (Luke 6:6-11). This attitude brought Jesus into conflict with the scribes, the official teachers of the law. Because of their influence, He was soon barred from preaching in the synagogues. But this was no great inconvenience. He simply gathered larger congregations to listen to Him on the hillside or by the lakeshore. He regularly illustrated the main themes of His preaching by parables. These were simple stories from daily life which would drive home some special point and make it stick in the hearer's understanding. The mission of the Twelve and its sequel - From among the large number of His followers, Jesus selected 12 men to remain in His company for training that would enable them to share His preaching and healing ministry. When He judged the time to be ripe, Jesus sent them out two by two to proclaim the kingdom of God throughout the Jewish districts of Galilee. In many places, they found an enthusiastic hearing. Probably some who heard these disciples misunderstood the nature of the kingdom they proclaimed. Perhaps the disciples themselves used language that could be interpreted as stirring political unrest. News of their activity reached Herod Antipas, ruler of Galilee, arousing His suspicion. He had recently murdered John the Baptist. Now he began to wonder if he faced another serious problem in Jesus. On the return of His 12 apostles, they withdrew under Jesus' leadership from the publicity that surrounded them in Galilee to the quieter territory east of the Lake of Galilee. This territory was ruled by Antipas' brother Philip-"Philip the tetrarch"-who had only a few Jews among his subjects. Philip was not as likely to be troubled by Messianic excitement. But even here Jesus and His disciples found themselves pursued by enthusiastic crowds from Galilee. He recognized them for what they were, "sheep without a shepherd," aimless people who were in danger of being led to disaster under the wrong kind of leadership. Jesus gave these people further teaching, feeding them also with loaves and fishes. But this only stimulated them to try to compel Him to be the king for whom they were looking. He would not be the kind of king they wanted, and they had no use for the only kind of king He was prepared to be. From then on, His popularity in Galilee began to decline. Many of His disciples no longer followed Him. He took the Twelve further north, into Gentile territory. Here He gave them special training to prepare them for the crisis they would have to meet shortly in Jerusalem. He knew the time was approaching when He would present His challenging message to the people of the capital and to the Jewish leaders. At the city of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus decided the time was ripe to encourage the Twelve to state their convictions about His identity and His mission. When Peter declared that He was the Messiah, this showed that He and the other apostles had given up most of the traditional ideas about the kind of person the Messiah would be. But the thought that Jesus would have to suffer and die was something they could not accept. Jesus recognized that He could now make a beginning with the creation of a new community. In this new community of God's people, the ideals of the kingdom He proclaimed would be realized. These ideals which Jesus taught were more revolutionary in many ways than the insurgent spirit that survived the overthrow of Judas the Galilean. The Jewish rebels against the rule of Rome developed into a party known as the Zealots. They had no better policy than to counter force with force, which, in Jesus' view, was like invoking Satan to drive out Satan. The way of nonresistance which He urged upon the people seemed impractical. But it eventually proved to be more effective against the might of Rome than armed rebellion. Jerusalem: the last phase – At the Feast of Tabernacles in the fall of A.D. 29, Jesus went to Jerusalem with the Twelve. He apparently spent the next six months in the southern part of Palestine. Jerusalem, like Galilee, needed to hear the message of the kingdom. But Jerusalem was more resistant to it even than Galilee. The spirit of revolt was in the air; Jesus' way of peace was not accepted. This is why He wept over the city. He realized the way which so many of its citizens preferred was bound to lead to their destruction. Even the magnificent Temple, so recently rebuilt by Herod the Great, would be involved in the general overthrow. During the week before Passover in A.D. 30, Jesus taught each day in the Temple area, debating with other teachers of differing beliefs. He was invited to state His opinion on a number of issues, including the question of paying taxes to the Roman Emperor. This was a test question with the Zealots. In their eyes, to acknowledge the rule of a pagan king was high treason against God, Israel's true King. Jesus replied that the coinage in which these taxes had to be paid belonged to the Roman emperor because his face and name were stamped on it. Let the emperor have what so obviously belonged to him, Jesus declared; it was more important to make sure that God received what was due Him. This answer disappointed those patriots who followed the Zealot line. Neither did it make Jesus popular with the priestly authorities. They were terrified by the rebellious spirit in the land. Their favored position depended on maintaining good relations with the ruling Romans. If revolt broke out, the Romans would hold them responsible for not keeping the people under control. They were afraid that Jesus might provoke an outburst that would bring the heavy hand of Rome upon the city. The enthusiasm of the people when Jesus entered Jerusalem on a donkey alarmed the religious leaders. So did his show of authority when he cleared the Temple of traders and moneychangers. This was a "prophetic action" in the tradition of the great prophets of Israel. Its message to the priestly establishment came through loud and clear. The prophets' vision of the Temple-"My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations" (Isa 56:7)-was a fine ideal. But any attempt to make it measure up to reality would be a threat to the priestly privileges. Jesus' action was as disturbing as Jeremiah's speech foretelling the destruction of Solomon's Temple had been to the religious leaders six centuries earlier (Jer 26:1-6). To block the possibility of an uprising among the people, the priestly party decided to arrest Jesus as soon as possible. The opportunity came earlier than they expected when one of the Twelve, Judas Iscariot, offered to deliver Jesus into their power without the risk of a public disturbance. Arrested on Passover Eve, Jesus was brought first before a Jewish court of inquiry, over which the high priest Caiaphas presided. The Jewish leaders attempted first to convict Him of being a threat to the Temple. Protection of the sanctity of the Temple was the one area in which the Romans still allowed the Jewish authorities to exercise authority. But this attempt failed. Then Jesus accepted their charge that He claimed to be the Messiah. This gave the religious leaders an occasion to hand Him over to Pilate on a charge of treason and sedition. While "Messiah" was primarily a religious title, it could be translated into political terms as "king of the Jews." Anyone who claimed to be king of the Jews, as Jesus admitted He did, presented a challenge to the Roman emperor's rule in Judea. On this charge Pilate, the Roman governor, finally convicted Jesus. This was the charge spelled out in the inscription fixed above His head on the cross. Death by crucifixion was the penalty for sedition by one who was not a Roman citizen. With the death and burial of Jesus, the narrative of His earthly career came to an end. But with His resurrection on the third day, He lives and works forever as the exalted Lord. His appearances to His disciples after His resurrection assured them He was "alive after His suffering" (Acts 1:3). These appearances also enabled them to make the transition in their experience from the form in which they had known Him earlier to the new way in which they would be related to Him by the Holy Spirit. The Teachings of Jesus. Just as Jesus' life was unique, so His teachings are known for their fresh and new approach. Jesus taught several distinctive spiritual truths that set Him apart from any other religious leader who ever lived. The kingdom of God – The message Jesus began to proclaim in Galilee after John the Baptist's imprisonment was the good news of the kingdom of God. When He appeared to His disciples after the resurrection, He continued "speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:3). What did Jesus mean by the kingdom of God? When Jesus announced that the kingdom of God was drawing near, many of His hearers must have recognized an echo of those visions recorded in the Book of Daniel. These prophecies declared that one day "the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed" (Dan 2:44). Jesus' announcement indicated the time had come when the authority of this kingdom would be exercised. The nature of this kingdom is determined by the character of the God whose kingdom it is. The revelation of God lay at the heart of Jesus' teaching. Jesus called Him "Father" and taught His disciples to do the same. But the term that He used when He called God "Father" was Abba (Mark 14:36), the term of affection that children used when they addressed their father at home or spoke about him to others. It was not unusual for God to be addressed in prayer as "my Father" or "our Father." But it was most unusual for Him to be called Abba. By using this term, Jesus expressed His sense of nearness to God and His total trust in Him. He taught His followers to look to God with the trust that children show when they expect their earthly fathers to provide them with food, clothes, and shelter. This attitude is especially expressed in the Lord's Prayer, which may be regarded as a brief summary of Jesus' teaching. In this prayer the disciples were taught to pray for the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose (the coming of His kingdom) and to ask Him for daily bread, forgiveness of sins, and deliverance from temptation. In Jesus' healing of the sick and proclamation of good news to the poor, the kingdom of God was visibly present, although it was not yet fully realized. Otherwise, it would not have been necessary for Him to tell His disciples to pray, "Your kingdom come" (Matt 6:10). One day, He taught, it would come "with power" (Mark 9:1), and some of them would live to see that day. In the kingdom of God the way to honor is the way of service. In this respect, Jesus set a worthy example, choosing to give service instead of receiving it. The death and resurrection of Jesus unleashed the kingdom of God in full power. Through proclamation of the kingdom, liberation and blessing were brought to many more than could be touched by Jesus' brief ministry in Galilee and Judea. The way of the kingdom – The ethical teaching of Jesus was part of His proclamation of the kingdom of God. Only by His death and resurrection could the divine rule be established. But even while the kingdom of God was in the process of inauguration during His ministry, its principles could be translated into action in the lives of His followers. The most familiar presentation of these principles is found in the SERMON ON THE MOUNT (Matt 5-7), which was addressed to His disciples. These principles showed how those who were already children of the kingdom ought to live. Jesus and the law of Moses - The people whom Jesus taught already had a large body of ethical teaching in the Old Testament law. But a further body of oral interpretation and application had grown up around the Law of Moses over the centuries. Jesus declared that He had come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it (Matt 5:17). But He emphasized its ethical quality by summarizing it in terms of what He called the two great commandments: "You shall love the Lord your God" (Deut 6:5) and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Lev 19:18). "On these two commandments," He said, "hang all the Law and the Prophets" (Matt 22:40). Jesus did not claim uniqueness or originality for His ethical teaching. One of His purposes was to explain the ancient law of God. Yet there was a distinctiveness and freshness about His teaching, as He declared His authority: "You have heard that it was said...But I say to you" (Matt 5:21-22). Only in listening to His words and doing them could a person build a secure foundation for his life (Matt 7:24-27; Luke 6:46-49). In His interpretation of specific commandments, Jesus did not use the methods of the Jewish rabbis. He dared to criticize their rulings, which had been handed down by word of mouth through successive generations of scribes. He even declared that these interpretations sometimes obscured the original purpose of the commandments. In appealing to that original purpose, He declared that a commandment was most faithfully obeyed when God's purpose in giving it was fulfilled. His treatment of the Sabbath law is an example of this approach. In a similar way, Jesus settled the question of divorce by an appeal to the original marriage ordinance (Gen 1:26-27; 2:24-25). Since husband and wife were made one by the Creator's decree, Jesus pointed out, divorce was an attempt to undo the work of God. If the law later allowed for divorce in certain situations (Deut 24:1-4), that was a concession to men's inability to keep the commandment. But it was not so in the beginning, He declared, and it should not be so for those who belong to the kingdom of God. Jesus actually injected new life into the ethical principles of the Law of Moses. But He did not impose a new set of laws that could be enforced by external sanctions; He prescribed a way of life for His followers. The act of murder, forbidden in the sixth commandment, was punishable by death. Conduct or language likely to provoke a breach of the peace could also bring on legal penalties. No human law can detect or punish the angry thought; yet it is here, Jesus taught, that the process which leads to murder begins. Therefore, "whoever is angry with his brother...shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matt 5:22). But He was careful to point out that the judgment is God's, not man's. The law could also punish a person for breaking the seventh commandment, which forbade adultery. But Jesus maintained that the act itself was the outcome of a person's internal thought. Therefore, "whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matt 5:28). Jesus' attitude and teaching also made many laws about property irrelevant for His followers. They should be known as people who give, not as people who get. If someone demands your cloak (outer garment), Jesus said, give it to him, and give him your tunic (undergarment) as well (Luke 6:29). There is more to life than abundance of possessions (Luke 12:15); in fact, He pointed out, material wealth is a hindrance to one's spiritual life. The wise man therefore will get rid of it: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:25). In no area have Jesus' followers struggled more to avoid the uncompromising rigor of his words than in His teaching about the danger of possessions. Jesus insisted that more is expected of His followers than the ordinary morality of decent people. Their ethical behavior should exceed "the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees" (Matt 5:20). "If you love [only] those who love you," He asked, "what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them" (Luke 6:32). The higher standard of the kingdom of God called for acts of love to enemies and words of blessing and goodwill to persecutors. The children of the kingdom should not insist on their legal rights but cheerfully give them up in response to the supreme law of love. The way of nonviolence – The principle of nonviolence is deeply ingrained in Jesus' teaching. In His references to the "men of violence" who tried to bring in the kingdom of God by force, Jesus gave no sign that He approved of their ideals or methods. The course which He called for was the way of peace and submission. He urged His hearers not to strike back against injustice or oppression but to turn the other cheek, to go a second mile when their services were demanded for one mile, and to take the initiative in returning good for evil. But the way of nonviolence did not appeal to the people. The crowd chose the militant Barabbas when they were given the opportunity to have either Jesus or Barabbas set free. But the attitude expressed in the shout, "Not this man, but Barabbas!" (Matt 27:15-26) was the spirit that would one day level Jerusalem and bring misery and suffering to the Jewish nation. The supreme example – In the teaching of Jesus, the highest of all incentives is the example of God. This was no new principle. The central section of Leviticus is called "the law of holiness" because of its recurring theme: "I am the Lord your God...Be holy; for I am holy" (Lev 11:44). This bears a close resemblance to Jesus' words in Luke 6:36, "Be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful." The children of God should reproduce their Father's character. He does not discriminate between the good and the evil in bestowing rain and sunshine; likewise, His followers should not discriminate in showing kindness to all. He delights in forgiving sinners; His children should also be marked by a forgiving spirit. The example of the heavenly Father and the example shown by Jesus on earth are one and the same, since Jesus came to reveal the Father. Jesus' life was the practical demonstration of His ethical teaching. To His disciples He declared, "I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you" (John 13:15). This theme of the imitation of Christ pervades the New Testament letters. It is especially evident in the writings of Paul, who was not personally acquainted with Jesus before he met Him on the Damascus Road. Paul instructed his converts to follow "the meekness and gentleness of Christ" (2 Cor 10:1). He also encouraged them to imitate Him as he himself imitated Christ (1 Cor 11:1). When he recommended to them the practice of all the Christian graces, he declared, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 13:14). Throughout the New Testament, Jesus is presented as the One who left us an example, that we should follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:21). The Person of Christ. The doctrine of the person of Christ, or Christology, is one of the most important concerns of Christian theology. The various aspects of the person of Christ are best seen by reviewing the titles that are applied to Him in the Bible. Son of Man – The title Son of Man was Jesus' favorite way of referring to Himself. He may have done this because this was not a recognized title already known by the people and associated with popular ideas. This title means essentially "The Man." But as Jesus used it, it took on new significance. Jesus applied this title to Himself in three distinct ways: First, He used the title in a general way, almost as a substitute for the pronoun "I." A good example of this usage occurred in the saying where Jesus contrasted John the Baptist, who "came neither eating bread nor drinking wine," with the Son of Man, who "has come eating and drinking" (Luke 7:33-34). Another probable example is the statement that "the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head" (Luke 9:58). In this instance He warned a would-be disciple that those who wanted to follow Him must expect to share His homeless existence. Second, Jesus used the title to emphasize that "the Son of Man must suffer" (Mark 8:31). The word must implies that His suffering was foretold by the prophets. It was, indeed, "written concerning the Son of Man, that He must suffer many things and be treated with contempt" (Mark 9:12). So when Jesus announced the presence of the betrayer at the Last Supper, He declared, "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him" (Mark 14:21). Later on the same evening He submitted to His captors with the words, "The Scriptures must be fulfilled" (Mark 14:49). Finally, Jesus used the title Son of Man to refer to Himself as the one who exercised exceptional authority-authority delegated to Him by God. "The Son of Man has power [authority] on earth to forgive sins" (Mark 2:10), He declared. He exercised this authority in a way that made some people criticize Him for acting with the authority of God: "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:28). The Son of Man appeared to speak and act in these cases as the representative man. If God had given man dominion over all the works of His hands, then He who was the Son of Man in this special representative sense was in a position to exercise that dominion. Near the end of His ministry, Jesus spoke of His authority as the Son of Man at the end of time. Men and women "will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory," He declared (Mark 13:26). He also stated to the high priest and other members of the supreme court of Israel: "You will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven" (Mark 14:62). He seemed deserted and humiliated as He stood there awaiting their verdict. But the tables would be turned when they saw Him vindicated by God as Ruler and Judge of all the world. Only once in the Gospels was Jesus referred to as the Son of Man by anyone other than Himself. This occurred when Stephen, condemned by the Jewish SANHEDRIN, saw "the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56). In Stephen's vision the Son of Man stood as his heavenly advocate, in fulfillment of Jesus' words: "Whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God" (Luke 12:8). Messiah - When Jesus made His declaration before the high priest and His colleagues, He did so in response to the question: "Are You the Christ the Son of the Blessed?" (Mark 14:61). He replied, "I am" (Mark 14:62), "It is as you said" (Matt 26:64). The Christ was the MESSIAH, the Son of David-a member of the royal family of David. For centuries the Jewish people had expected a Messiah who would restore the fortunes of Israel, liberating the nation from foreign oppression and extending His rule over Gentile nations. Jesus belonged to the family of David. He was proclaimed as the Messiah of David's line, both before His birth and after His resurrection. But He Himself was slow to make messianic claims. The reason for this is that the ideas associated with the Messiah in the minds of the Jewish people were quite different from the character and purpose of His ministry. Thus, He refused to give them any encouragement. When, at Caesarea Philippi, Peter confessed Jesus to be the Messiah, Jesus directed him and his fellow disciples to tell no one that He was the Christ. After His death and resurrection, however, the concept of messiahship among His followers was transformed by what He was and did. Then He could safely be proclaimed as Messiah, God's Anointed King, resurrected in glory to occupy the throne of the universe. Son of God – Jesus was acclaimed as the Son of God at His baptism (Mark 1:11). But He was also given this title by the angel Gabriel at the annunciation: "That Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). The Gospel of John especially makes it clear that the Father-Son relationship belongs to eternity-that the Son is supremely qualified to reveal the Father because He has His eternal being "in the bosom of the Father" (John 1:18). At one level the title Son of God belonged officially to the Messiah, who personified the nation of Israel. "Israel is My Son, My firstborn," said God to Pharaoh (Ex 4:22). Of the promised prince of the house of David, God delclared, "I will make him My firstborn" (Ps 89:27). But there was nothing merely official about Jesus' consciousness of being the Son of God. He taught His disciples to think of God and to speak to Him as their Father. But He did not link them with Himself in this relationship and speak to them of "our Father"-yours and mine. The truth expressed in His words in John 20:17 is implied throughout His teaching: "My Father and your Father...My God and your God." John 20:17 17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' " NKJV As the Son of God in a special sense, Jesus made Himself known to the apostle Paul on the Damascus Road. Paul said "It pleased God...to reveal His Son in me" (Gal 1:15-16). The proclamation of Jesus as the Son of God was central to Paul's preaching (Acts 9:20; 2 Cor 1:19). Acts 9:20 20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God. NKJV When Jesus is presented as the Son of God in the New Testament, two aspects of His person are emphasized: His eternal relation to God as His Father and His perfect revelation of the Father to the human race. Word and Wisdom – Jesus' perfect revelation of the Father is also expressed when He is described as the Word (logos) of God (John 1:1-18). The Word is the self-expression of God; that self-expression has personal status, existing eternally with God. The Word by which God created the world (Ps 33:6) and by which He spoke through the prophets "became flesh" in the fullness of time (John 1:14), living among men and women as Jesus of Nazareth. Much that is said in the Old Testament about the Word of God is paralleled by what is said of the Wisdom of God: "The Lord by wisdom founded the earth" (Prov 3:19). In the New Testament Christ is portrayed as the personal Wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24,30)-the one through whom all things were created (1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:16; Heb 1:2). The Holy One of God – This title was given to Jesus by Peter (John 6:69, RSV) and remarkably, by a demon-possessed man (Mark 1:24). In their preaching, the apostles called Jesus "the Holy One and the Just" (Acts 3:14). This was a name belonging to Him as the Messiah, indicating He was especially set apart for God. This title also emphasized His positive goodness and His complete dedication to the doing of His Father's will. Mere "sinlessness," in the sense of the absence of any fault, is a pale quality in comparison to the unsurpassed power for righteousness which filled His life and teaching. The Lord – "Jesus is Lord" is The ultimate Christian creed. "No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor 12:3). A Christian, therefore, is a person who confesses Jesus as Lord. Several words denoting lordship were used of Jesus in the New Testament. The most frequent, and the most important in relation to the doctrine of His person, was the Greek word kurios. It was frequently given to Him as a polite term of address, meaning "Sir." Sometimes the title was used of Him in the third person, when the disciples and others spoke of Him as "The Lord" or "The Master." After His resurrection and exaltation, however, Jesus was given the title "Lord" in its full, christological sense. Peter, concluding his address to the crowd in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, declared, "Let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36). The title "Lord" in the Christological sense must have been given to Jesus before the church moved out into the Gentile world. The evidence for this is the invocation "Maranatha" (KJV) or "O Lord, come!" (1 Cor 16:22). The apostle Paul, writing to a Gentile church in the Greek-speaking world, assumed that its members were familiar with this Aramaic phrase. It was an early Christian title for Jesus which was taken over untranslated. It bears witness to the fact that from the earliest days of the church, the one who had been exalted as Lord was expected to return as Lord. Another key New Testament text that shows the sense in which Jesus was acknowledged as Lord is Phil 2:5-11. In these verses Paul may be quoting an early confession of faith. If so, he endorsed it and made it his own. This passage tells how Jesus did not regard equality with God as something which he should exploit to his own advantage. Instead, He humbled himself to become a man, displaying "the form of God" in "the form of a servant." He became "obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,...and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father“ (Phil 2:8-11). The "name which is above every name" is probably the title Lord, in the highest sense that it can bear. The words echo Isa 45:23, where the God of Israel swears, "To Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath [or, make confession]." In the Old Testament passage the God of Israel denies to any other being the right to receive the worship which belongs to Him alone. But in the passage from Philippians He readily shares that worship with the humiliated and exalted Jesus. More than that, He shares His own name with him. When human beings honor Jesus as Lord, God is glorified. God – If Jesus is called Lord in this supreme sense, it is not surprising that He occasionally is called God in the New Testament. Thomas, convinced that the risen Christ stood before him, abandoned his doubts with the confession, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). But the classic text is John 1:1. John declared that the Word existed not only "in the beginning," where He was "with God," but also actually "was God." This is the Word that became incarnate as real man in Jesus Christ, without ceasing to be what He had been from eternity. The Word was God in the sense that the Father shared with Him the fullness of His own nature. The Father remained in a technical phrase of traditional theology, "the fountain of deity." But from that fountain the Son drew in unlimited measure. The Bible thus presents Christ as altogether God and altogether man-the perfect mediator between God and mankind because He partakes fully of the nature of both. The Work of Christ – The work of Christ has often been stated in relation to His threefold office as prophet, priest, and king. As prophet, He is the perfect spokesman of God to the world, fully revealing God's character and will. As priest, Jesus has offered to God by His death a sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the world. Now, on the basis of that sacrifice, He exercises a ministry of intercession on behalf of His people. As king, He is "the ruler over the kings of the earth" (Rev 1:5)-the one to whose rule the whole world is subject. The work of Jesus can be discussed in terms of past, present, and future. The finished work of Christ – By the "finished" work of Christ is meant the work of atonement or redemption for the human race which He completed by His death on the cross. This work is so perfect in itself that it requires neither repetition nor addition. Because of this work, He is called "Savior of the world" (1 John 4:14) and "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). In the Bible sin is viewed in several ways: as an offense against God, which requires a pardon; as defilement, which requires cleansing; as slavery, which cries out for emancipation; as a debt, which must be canceled; as defeat, which must be reversed by victory; and as estrangement, which must be set right by reconciliation. However sin is viewed, it is through the work of Christ that the remedy is provided. He has procured the pardon, the cleansing, the emancipation, the cancellation, the victory, and the reconciliation. When sin is viewed as an offense against God, it is also interpreted as a breach of His law. The law of God, like law in general, involves penalties against the lawbreaker. So strict are these penalties that they appear to leave no avenue of escape for the lawbreaker. The apostle Paul, conducting his argument along these lines, quoted one uncompromising declaration from the Old Testament: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them" (Deut 27:26; Gal 3:10). But Paul goes on to say that Christ, by enduring the form of death on which a divine curse was expressly pronounced in the law, absorbed in His own person the curse invoked on the lawbreaker: "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree')" (Deut 21:23; Gal 3:13). Since Christ partakes in the nature of both God and humanity, He occupies a unique status with regard to them. He represents God to humanity, and He also represents humanity to God. God is both Lawgiver and Judge; Christ represents Him. The human family has put itself in the position of the lawbreaker; Christ has voluntarily undertaken to represent us. The Judge has made Himself one with the guilty in order to bear our guilt. It is ordinarily out of the question for one person to bear the guilt of others. But when the one person is the representative man, Jesus Christ, bearing the guilt of those whom He represents, the case is different. In the hour of His death, Christ offered His life to God on behalf of mankind. The perfect life which He offered was acceptable to God. The salvation secured through the giving up of that life is God's free gift to mankind in Christ. When the situation is viewed in terms of a law court, one might speak of the accused party as being acquitted. But the term preferred in the New Testament, especially in the apostle Paul's writings, is the more positive word justified. Paul goes on to the limit of daring in speaking of God as "Him who justifies the ungodly" (Rom 4:5). God can be so described because "Christ died for the ungodly" (Rom 5:6). Those who are united by faith to Him are "justified" in Him. As Paul explained elsewhere, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor 5:21). The work of Christ, seen from this point of view, is to set humanity in a right relationship with God. When sin is considered as defilement that requires cleansing, the most straightforward affirmation is that "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). The effect of His death is to purify a conscience that has been polluted by sin. The same thought is expressed by the writer of the Book of Hebrews. He speaks of various materials that were prescribed by Israel's ceremonial law to deal with forms of ritual pollution, which was an external matter. Then he asks, "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb 9:14). Spiritual defilement calls for spiritual cleansing, and this is what the death of Christ has accomplished. When sin is considered as slavery from which the slave must be set free, then the death of Christ is spoken of as a ransom or a means of redemption. Jesus Himself declared that He came "to give His life a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). Paul not only spoke of sin as slavery; he also personified sin as a slaveowner who compels his slaves to obey his evil orders. When they are set free from his control by the death of Christ to enter the service of God, they find this service, by contrast, to be perfect freedom. The idea of sin as a debt that must be canceled is based on the teaching of Jesus. In Jesus' parable of the creditor and the two debtors (Luke 7:40-43), the creditor forgave them both when they could make no repayment. But the debtor who owed the larger sum, and therefore had more cause to love the forgiving creditor, represented the woman whose "sins, which are many, are forgiven" (Luke 7:47). This is similar to Paul's reference to God as "having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands" (Col 2:14, RSV). Paul's words in Col 2:15 speak of the "principalities and powers" as a personification of the hostile forces in the world which have conquered men and women and hold them as prisoners of war. There was no hope of successful resistance against them unti1 Christ confronted them. It looked as if they had conquered Him too, but on the cross He conquered death itself, along with all other hostile forces. In His victory all who believe in Him have a share: "Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 15:57). Sin is also viewed as estrangement, or alienation, from God. In this case, the saving work of Christ includes the reconciliation of sinners to God. The initiative in this reconciling work is taken by God: "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself" (2 Cor 5:19). God desires the well-being of sinners; so He sends Christ as the agent of His reconciling grace to them (Col 1:20). Those who are separated from God by sin are also estranged from one another. Accordingly, the work of Christ that reconciles sinners to God also brings them together as human beings. Hostile divisions of humanity have peace with one another through Him. Paul celebrated the way in which the work of Christ overcame the mutual estrangement of Jews and Gentiles: "For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of division between us" (Eph 2:14). When the work of Christ is pictured in terms of an atoning sacrifice, it is God who takes the initiative. The word propitiation, used in this connection in older English versions of the Bible (Rom 3:25; 1 John 2:2; 4:10), does not mean that sinful men and women have to do something to appease God or turn away His anger; neither does it mean that Christ died on the cross to persuade God to be merciful to sinners. It is the nature of God to be a pardoning God. He has revealed His pardoning nature above all in the person and work of Christ. This saving initiative is equally and eagerly shared by Christ: He gladly cooperates with the Father's purpose for the redemption of the world. The present work of Christ – The present work of Christ begins with His exaltation by God, after the completion of His "finished" work in His death and resurrection. The first aspect of His present work was the sending of the Holy Spirit to dwell in His people. "If I do not go away," He had said to his disciples in the Upper Room, "the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you" (John 16:7). The fulfillment of this promise was announced by Peter on the Day of Pentecost: "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear" (Acts 2:33). The promise of the Holy Spirit can be traced back to John the Baptist, who prophesied that the one who was to come after him, mightier than himself, would "baptize you with the Holy Spirit" (Mark 1:8). But the present work of Christ that receives the main emphasis in the New Testament is His intercession. Paul, quoting what appears to be an early Christian confession of faith, spoke of "Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us" (Rom 8:34). So too, the writer to the Hebrews says that "He ever lives to make intercession" for His people (Heb 7:25). He describes in detail Jesus' exceptional qualifications to be their high priest. Jesus' presence with God as His people's representative provides the assurance that their requests for spiritual help are heard and granted. To know that He is there is a powerful incentive for His followers. No good thing that Jesus seeks for them is withheld by the Father. The exaltation of Christ is repeatedly presented in the New Testament as the fulfillment of Ps 110:1: "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool." This means that Christ reigns from His present place of exaltation and must do so until all His enemies are overthrown. Those enemies belong to the spiritual realm: "The last enemy that will be destroyed is death" (1 Cor 15:26). With the destruction of death, which occurred with the resurrection of Jesus, the present phase of Christ's work gives way to His future work. The future work of Christ - During His earthly ministry, Jesus declared that He had even greater works to do in the future. He specified two of these greater works: the raising of the dead and the passing of final judgment. To raise the dead and to judge the world are prerogatives of God, but He delegated these works to His Son. While the Son would discharge these two functions at the time of the end, they were not unrelated to the events of Jesus' present ministry. Those who were spiritually dead received new life when they responded in faith to the Son of God. In effect, they were passing judgment on themselves as they accepted or rejected the life which He offered. The raising of the dead and the passing of judgment are associated with the Second Coming of Christ. When Paul dealt with this subject, he viewed Christ's appearing in glory as the occasion when His people would share His glory and be displayed to the universe as the sons and daughters of God, heirs of the new order. He added that all creation looks forward to that time, because then it "will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom 8:21). Both the present work of Christ and His future work are dependent on His "finished" work. That "finished" work was the beginning of God's "good work" in His people. This work will not be completed until "the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:6), when the entire universe will be united "in Christ" (Eph 1:10). (From Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright ©1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

I am glad that Steve Lortz is posting. Steve shows very good scriptural knowledge. Also showing very good scriptural knowledge here is someone that I met when I was in Noo Yawk, WordWolf. Did I pronounce that correctly, "Noo Yawk"? However, Steve which denomination is the seminary that you are attending part of? This is a reminder and is something that Jesus Christ taught as part of the gospels. Namely the doctrinal error that results when the tradition of men is elevated above the word of God. Instead we can learn from both our study of the scriptures and asking God for answers of truth in prayer. James chapter 1 verses 5-8 are an example of our truthful learning. Also see these scriptures. Mark 7:9 9 And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. NKJV Col 2:8-10 8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. NKJV One of the religious traditions is the doctrine of the trinity. Why would any doctrinally truthful person insist on elevating a word that is not used in any version of the bible, namely the unbiblical word, "trinity"? Steve, I think it is good for you to learn the biblical Greek language at the seminary that you are attending. However, doctrinally speaking, especially if your seminary is part of a denomination, they should learn from you at least as much as you might learn from them. In fact, now I live right next door to a church called the Berean Baptist Church. Doctrinally, they are O.K., but occasionally, I see obvious doctrinal error when I attend. I do this in a non-argumentative manner, but when I talk to the teachers and pastors after the teachings I do my best to help them doctrinally and this has also involved providing them information in written form that they can study at their homes. Doctrinally, besides asking God for truth in prayer, which God gives me when ever I ask. I learn from biblical software that I have called the PC Study Bible. Besides commentaries and biblical Greek, this has the Nelson Bible Dictionary. Nelson Publishing is the same publisher for the New King James version of the bible. This has a very truthful biblical study of Jesus Christ and do you think there is even one mention of the work trinity in this approximate 10 page study of Jesus Christ? The answer is not even once is the word trinity mentioned.

Yes Twinky, some very good points that you are making here. You get an "A" in understanding and communication. Below is an article that I wrote on this subject originally in 1988 and then revised in 2002. As you have stated very well, being service oriented for church leadership is the primary emphasis for true Christ like doctrine and application. The Lordship of Jesus Christ, Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man

Hi Steve: They should be good because you were or are one of the editors. I will be praying for your health and for a complete recovery for you.

Here are some biblical commentaries that I have written and posted on the internet to help people with their scriptural understanding. I have edited these a few times and have also gotten editing assistance from Grease Spot Café forum participants. I hope this helps our understanding. 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 1 Corinthians Chapter 13 1 Corinthians Chapter 14

Ohio State won the battle of the bands this past Saturday in Berkeley, California. They were VERY GOOD and even played the music for the University of California at Berkeley theme song. Along with of course their school theme song and other music. Congratulations to the Ohio State marching band. And, I almost forgot. They also played a football game Cal versus Ohio State. The final score was 52 to 34. Cal is O.K. and has a very good passing attack, the best in the nation, but Cal is not as good overall as Ohio State. The Cal quarterback Jared Goff went to the same high school that I went to, Marin Catholic. He is only a freshman, but already leads the nation in passing yardage. The Ohio State team though is good in all aspects of football. In fact, their football team is almost as good as their band. Wow, that is very good.

Again, I wrote my commentary. I spent hours writing it. The Nelson Bible Dictionary people wrote their commentary. They are excellent teachers and have spent hours I am sure researching the bible. Why don't you read this, which I originally wrote in the mid 1980s, http://www.christian...ist-page-1.html

Anyone that does not apply something will have a limitation on their knowledge. That is what looks like has occured here amoung some of the posters. In contrast, I have applied the manifestation of the spirit a number of times. I have even prayed for people with some healings resulting. One time I even prayed for a person, that did not believe in Jesus Christ, that had a knee injury as I recall and then the next day he told everyone that he got healed. He was one of my teammates on my college soccer team at Chico State University. Also recently I was at a meeting with a number of Christians and I followed what is written in 1 Corinthians 14 and then spoke in tongues with interpretation, which to me can now be prayer and praise to God. Before in the Way ministry it could not be prayer and praise to God. It had to be only a forthtelling and similar in message as prophecy, which I do not agree with now. To imply or say that my commentary is based solely on a class that I took 40 years ago is only used to ignore what I have written and is nothing more than biased speculation. Relating me to a class (PFAL) that now has a bad reputation is false. In reality I was one of the main people that saw the errors in Way ministry doctrine and even was able to pinpoint the primary doctrinal error which was the use of the Way Tree political hierarchy. I did this through my article called "the Lordship of Jesus Christ, Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man", which I wrote in the mid 1980s. My commentary on 1 Corinthians 14, which will go on the Internet is based on detailed study in the last few years using my biblical software, PC Study Bible. Here is a link to the software that I use BibleSoft Anyone with sense and logic realizes that if someone does not want to apply something or at least does not want to try to apply something, their knowledge will be limited. That is what I see here. I also clearly see a bias against the many hours of study that I have done on this subject. Fine then. If you want to be bias against one teacher, then try to learn from another teacher or other teachers. Here is a study from the Nelson Bible Dictionary on this subject. The Nelson Bible Dictionary, which is part of the PC Study Bible package is an EXCELLENT source of biblical knowledge covering a large amount of biblical subjects. If I was editing this, the only edit I would make is to refer to tongues as a manifestation. However, tongues could also be referred to as a gift because gift is merely a descriptive word just like every other word. And certainly ones ability to speak in tongues is a gift from God. Here is biblical and factual knowledge from the Nelson Bible Dictionary. TONGUES, GIFT OF The Spirit-given ability to speak in languages not known to the speaker or in an ecstatic language that could not normally be understood by the speaker or the hearers. Apparently the only possibly direct reference in the Old Testament to speaking in another tongue or language is found in Isa 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people." This seems to be a reference to an invasion of the Assyrians. They apparently would speak in another language, one probably unknown to the people of Israel. The apostle Paul later applied this verse to speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:21). The apostle Peter considered the phenomenon of speaking in tongues that occurred on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (Joel 2:28-32). In an appearance to His disciples after His resurrection, Jesus declared, "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17). On the Day of Pentecost, the followers of Christ "were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4). The people assembled in Jerusalem for this feast came from various Roman provinces representing a variety of languages. They were astonished to hear the disciples speaking of God's works in their own languages. Some have suggested that the miracle was in the hearing rather than in the speaking. This explanation, however, would transfer the miraculous from the believing disciples to the multitude who may not have been believers. Tongues as a gift of the Spirit is especially prominent in 1 Cor 12 and 14. In 1 Cor 12 the phenomenon of tongues is listed with other gifts of the Spirit under the term gifts. As one of the several gifts given to believers as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, tongues is intended, with the other gifts, to be exercised for the building up of the church and the mutual profit of its members. In 1 Cor 13 the apostle Paul puts the gift of tongues in perspective by affirming that though we "speak with the tongues of men and of angels" (v. 1), if we do not have love, the gift of tongues has no value. In 1 Cor 14 Paul deals more specifically with the gift of tongues and its exercise in the church. In this chapter the tongue is not an intelligible language, for it cannot be understood by the listeners. Therefore, a parallel to the gift of tongues is the gift of interpretation. The gift of tongues was used as a means of worship, thanksgiving, and prayer. While exercising this gift, the individual addresses God not man; and the result is to edify himself and not the church (1 Cor 14:2,4). This gift is never intended for self-exaltation but for the praise and glorification of God. Paul does not prohibit speaking in tongues in a public service (14:39). But he seems to assign it to a lesser place than the gift of prophecy. Paul claims for himself the gift of tongues-speaking, but apparently he exercised this gift in private and not in public (14:18-19). The gift of tongues is to be exercised with restraint and in an orderly way. The regulations for its public use are simple and straightforward. The person who speaks in an unknown tongue is to pray that he may interpret (1 Cor 14:13). Or, someone else is to interpret what he says. Only two or three persons are to speak, with each having an interpretation of what he says. Each is also to speak in turn. If these criteria are not met, they are to remain silent (1 Cor 14:27-28). The gifts of speaking in tongues and their interpretation are to be Spirit inspired. Paul also points out that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. If these guidelines are not observed, unbelievers who are present will conclude that the people of the church are out of their minds. The phenomenon of speaking in tongues described in the New Testament is not some psychological arousal of human emotions that results in strange sounds. This is a genuine work of the Holy Spirit. (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright ©1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

Oh my two friends WordWolf and Raf can be intelligent and also funny. One of the things Paul did was teach and teach a lot. Here is more of my commentary on what Paul taught. And yes, he does also mention some other things that he did in his chapter on 1 Corinthians 14. We should all have open minds or at least consider what is written. 1 Corinthians 14:3-5 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification. Scriptures taken from the New Kings James Version. Copyright 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved. Here we see plainly the difference between speaking words of prophecy and speaking in tongues. Both are a manifestation or evidence of the Spirit of God given to followers of Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 12:7-11). Words of prophecy are preferred in a church gathering because they are words spoken in the language of those people present. In contrast, speaking in tongues is not a preferred manifestation when spoken aloud in a church gathering unless the person that speaks in tongues interprets in the language of the people present the words that he has just spoken in tongues. This is referred to in 1 Corinthians 12:10 as the interpretation of tongues. Both are the work of the one and same Spirit of God, which has been given to individual followers of Jesus Christ. Remember Acts 2 and the vision of cloven tongues like as of fire, which came as a mass and then separated right before resting on individual disciples of Jesus Christ. This was a vision of the one Spirit, Ephesians 4:4. Just as we have one body with all followers of Jesus Christ a member, we have one Spirit, with all followers of Jesus Christ getting a portion, also called the gift of “Holy Spirit.” Both prophecy and tongues are for edification. Speaking in tongues is for individual edification, which should be primarily spoken quietly to oneself and not spoken aloud unless the speaker offers words of interpretation. Later we will see that speaking in tongues is a form of prayer and is specifically called in 1 Corinthians 14:14-15, praying in the spirit. Paul wants everyone to speak in tongues in this manor according to verse 5. In contrast, in a church gathering, prophecy is of greater importance and should be done because it brings edification, exhortation and comfort to the people present. These are three related words as stated in verse 3. Stated in a similar way prophecy brings to the church a building up along with encouragement and comfort. 1 Corinthians 14:6-11 6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues (gloossa), what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue (gloossa) words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. Scriptures taken from the New Kings James Version. Copyright 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved. Speaking in tongues is an important manifestation for followers of Jesus Christ. Personally, I have used it as spiritual prayer for a number of years now. I have also instructed others in this spiritual prayer and then led them also into speaking in tongues. See an example of this in Acts 19:6. However, as the previous section of scripture clearly states, if we speak in tongues out loud, words that no one understands, how will it benefit the listener? The answer is obvious. Unless we speak words that are understood, one can or would merely sound like a foreigner. If we speak in tongues out loud without the addition of words in our common language, for example revelation, prophesying or teaching, how shall it assist or be useful or advantageous to the listener? The answer is, it will not. It will only edify the speaker. How is that being of service to our fellow brothers and sister in Christ? Isn’t that why we as followers of Jesus Christ meet and get together, to serve and help one another? 1 Corinthians 14:12-14 12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts (The word gifts was added. A better translation would be spiritual matters or things.), let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel. 13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. Scriptures taken from the New Kings James Version. Copyright 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved. Stated again, if we are zealous for spiritual matters or things, let’s focus that zeal on serving our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. And when it comes to speaking words in a church service let’s speak words to edify or build up the church. Therefore, anyone who speaks in a tongue in a regular church service should first pray that he may interpret. Then and only then should we speak in tongues and then we should follow this with the interpretation, in the language of the people present. We are able to speak in tongues and then immediately follow this with the interpretation of the tongue that we just spoke, through faith in God and prayer. Yes, prayer needs to be mixed with faith in God. So again, before we speak in tongues out loud in front of everyone at a church gathering. Let’s first pray and have faith that we will interpret the divine secrets and wonderful works of God. Speaking in tongues is spiritual prayer and I do it and I like it, but in a church gathering let’s primarily speak fruitful words with our understanding. 1 Corinthians 14:15-16 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. New International Version Here the scriptures ask a fundamental question based on all the previous truthful and practical knowledge. “What shall I do?” The answer is to both pray in the spirit, which is speaking in tongues, and pray with our understanding. And when we speak in tongues, if we want, we can also do it to the tune of our favorite musician, musical group or melody. And of course, in a church service we can all sing one of our favorite hymnals together. Three of my all time favorites are “I’ve Found a Friend in Jesus, He’s Everything To Me”, “What a Friend We Have in Jesus” and “How great thou art.” 1 Corinthians 14:16-17 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how can any one in the position of an outsider say the "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may give thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. Revised Standard Version Another obvious question with a simple answer. We may be giving thanks spiritually through speaking in tongues, but if no one listening to us knows what we are saying, then no one, but the speaker is edified. If that is the case we may as well just stay home and pray in our closet with the door shut (see Matthew 6:6). Therefore as this section of scripture has said and implied a number of times. If we speak in tongues we should primarily do it silently to God in prayer and praise. 1 Corinthians 14:18-19 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. King James Version A great summary written by Paul. Paul thanks God that he speaks in tongues, at this time, perhaps more than all the people of the church in Corinth. Nevertheless, in church Paul would rather speak out loud five words that will teach and edify others than ten thousand words in a tongue (gloossa) that is not known by the people that are present and listening to him.

Raf if you don't believe that speaking in tongues is prayer and praise to God, you are going to have to overlook a lot of scriptures. I am working on a 1031 tax exchange now as a licensed real estate broker. When I finish this, I will post my commentary on my web site for you and others to look at. If you want to? I will have a detailed commentary covering every verse in 1 Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14. I could even post all of chapter 14 on this thread, but it looks like it might be a little to much for some people here to swallow. However, I made the commentary very readable. Here is about 17% of my commentary on 1 Corinthians 14: 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue (gloossa) speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. King James Version The biblical usage of speaking in tongues over the years has been very controversial among Christians and especially in various churches. Plenty of Christians do not understand what speaking in tongues is nor do they believe in it. Others believe in it, but sometimes do not speak in tongues at churches without a great deal of confusion. With this in mind we are going to do a short study of speaking in tongues purely from New Testament scriptures. First of all biblically the Greek word for “tongues” here in 14:2 is the Greek word “gloossa.” From the Thayer’s Greek to English lexicon it means literally the tongue as a member of our physical body, which is the organ of speech. Tongues (gloossa) can also represent a language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations. To see this let’s look at scriptures, which use this Greek word. Mark 7:32-35 32 Then they brought to Him (Jesus) one who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech, and they begged Him to put His hand on him. 33 And He (Jesus) took him aside from the multitude, and put His fingers in his ears, and He (Jesus) spat and touched his tongue (gloossa). 34 Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him, "Ephphatha," that is, "Be opened." 35 Immediately his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue (gloossa) was loosed, and he spoke plainly. Scriptures taken from the New Kings James Version. Copyright 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved. Above we see clearly the usage of the word tongue (gloossa) as a body part used for speech. Next we will look at usages of tongues (gloossa) used for speech as inspired by the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:3-4 3 And there appeared unto them cloven (diamerizoo) tongues (gloossa) like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (gloossa), as the Spirit gave them utterance. King James Version Holy Ghost above from the King James Version is the same as Hoy Spirit in other versions. In Acts 2 we have for the first time the Holy Spirit, which Jesus promised to give to his followers. Here we see the Holy Spirit coming to Jesus’s twelve disciples looking like divided tongues of fire and sitting on each of them. The Greek word used for “cloven” is “diamerizoo.” “Diamerizoo” is normally translated divided and means to divide or cut in pieces. With this they were each filled with the Holy Spirit and the first thing they then did was speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance or as the Spirit enabled them. This was prophesied during Jesus’ earthly ministry for example, Matthew 3:11 quotes John the baptist, “He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” It is interesting that at this time we had a festival known as Pentecost or the feast of harvest. According to Acts 2:5, we had Jews in Jerusalem at this festival from every nation with multiple languages spoken and understood. What was noticed by these people from other nations was that there were 12 Galileans speaking, which was to them foreign languages, many of which they could not have known. People from Galilee were not known for their linguistic ability or knowledge. Some of these listed nations with languages are as follows: Acts 2:8-11 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues (gloossa) the wonderful works of God.” King James Version Next, we see that tongues is also words that “magnify God.” Acts 10:45-46 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues (gloossa), and magnify God… King James Version Here we see for the first time Gentiles also receiving the gift of Holy Spirit. And like the twelve original disciples, who were also Jesus’ apostles, the first thing the Gentiles did after receiving the Holy Spirit was speak in tongues and with this magnify God. Magnifying God is esteeming highly or declaring that God is great To summarize from the scriptures we have covered including 1 Corinthians 13:1, from a previous chapter and now 1 Corinthians 14:2 we see that speaking in tongues is the following: A. From Mark 7:33-35, the physical human tongue as used for speech. B. From Acts 2:4, speaking inspired words from the Holy Spirit. C. From Acts 2:11, speaking the wonderful works of God. D. From Acts 10:46, speaking words that magnify God or declare that God is great. E. From 1 Corinthians 13:1, which also uses the word “gloossa,” speaking a language either of men or angels, F. From 1 Corinthians 14:2, speaking mysteries or divine secrets directly to God and not man. As we saw in Acts 2, sometimes people can understand what is being spoken in tongues, but this is rare and could be considered miraculous. Speaking in tongues is speaking to God a hidden or secret thing as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Well, perhaps you guys don't speak in tongues anymore as part of your private prayer life. You are therefore disagreeing with the apostle Paul. That just proves what the apostle Paul wrote when he said he spoke in tongues more than anyone else or more than a number of people combined. No one can make that claim unless they have heard every one that has ever spoken in a tongue speak out loud. When I speak in tongues silently to myself certain words are repeated over and over again and their is a harmony and repetition of words and phrases. The bible even said that sometimes people that speak in tongues can be understood. We read that in Acts chapter 2. Stated in a more truthful and scriptural way: 1 Cor 14:2 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. NIV I don't want to be mean or argumentative, but it sounds like you guys don't use this anymore in your private prayer life. Is this correct? If this is the case you are not applying 1 Corinthians chapter 14 anymore. 1 Cor 14:18-19 18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. NKJV Just one of the verses that you may no longer be applying. It is clearly written that Paul spoke in tongues much in his private prayer life, but he did not want to speak in tongues outloud in a church service, because his words would not be understood. I have written an entire commentary on 1 Corinthians chapter 14 covering and explaining every verse. When I post it on the internet I will let you know so you can read it if you want to.

Yes, there are definitely similarities. And this is coming from someone who in the last year took two computer programming classes at two local community colleges. Both classes each involved about 16 weeks of study. One computer programming language was Java. The other was PHP. Incidentally PHP is the programming language that may have been used to build this web site. Both can be complex languages. Also I think even some animals with means of communication could be considered to have tongues or languages. They may be simplified, but nevertheless could be used for communication. I think God is a genius and can come up with a new tongue or language on the spur of the moment for prayer and praise. And it could be a new language with similarities to other languages, but brand new and never used before or at least not exactly the same as any other language used before. There are so many number of possibilies for languages. I question if any calculator has enough numbers to calculate the number of possibilities. Or at least any calculator that I have ever used. And as the above quoted verse from 1 Corinthians 14:2 says, this may be a tongue or language that only God knows and is a mystery to man. Based on your next post Chockfull, regarding the word "language". Yes, tongues could be considered or described as a language. It could also be described as a "means of communication". With tongues via the Spirit in ones private prayer life, a means of communication with God in prayer and praise. And reading again your above post, the Greek word for tongues is used both to describe a language and ones physical tongue. It is used in both contexts biblically.

There are an infinite number of language possibilies. We could make up another language or tongue tomorrow or tonight. It might be a very simple language with only a few words, but still could be used for some communication. God though is much better with languages or tongues than you and I. He could inspire a brand new 500 or 1000 word tongue or language on the spur of the moment as we speak in tongues in prayer and praise to him. It might have some similarities to a language of men that people have actually spoken on earth with one another, but not the same language. And still only understood by God and not by man. And a language or tongue spoken in prayer and praise to God. That is the main thing. A tongue of prayer and praise to God.

There might be some nitpicking with words here. There is no reason to do that. Yes, we want to study the words well to help our understanding, but words by themselves will not help our understanding. 1 Cor 14:2 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. NIV I recommend simplifying this to help ones understanding. Yes, this is a tongue and yes a tongue can be considered a language. There are multiple or infinite languages that can be spoken by inspiration of God for ones prayer life. This does not have to be a language, or tongue if you only like to use that word, that any people or nation has ever spoken or used. It could be a tongue that only God knows and no man knows and this is what the verse clearly says. Keep your options open on this. The main thing is, is that tongues as a manifestation is praise to God.

Angels are often called messengers. If people have their own tongues or languages, angels could also have their own tongues or languages. And angels since they are often referred to as messengers could also speak the languages of men. Of course speaking in tongues for ones private prayer life could primarily be a language of men because it is people that speak it. Of course, speaking in tongues may also be a language that no people or country on earth has ever used. And to prove that speaking in tongues has to be a language of men you might have to travel to every people and place on earth. Speak in tongues to them until you find someone that understands it and can verify that it is a language of man. I still consider tongues a languages though. I do it all the time in my prayer life and consider it primarily a tongue of prayer and praise to God which God understands. That is the key thing in this and not what kind of language it is. The main thing is that it is prayer and praise to God and the all knowing God understands it.

Hi Tom: If you don't want to call that the second death then that is O.K. with me. However, you being a good writer knows that different people have different ways of explaining things. That does not make one right amd the other wrong. Getting back to 1 Corinthians 15, it does clearly say that death will be ultimately destroyed. To me that says that no one will die again after this occurs. So we have some people promoting the negative and other people, perhaps like you and I, promoting the positive. We will have both the negative and the positive. We will have death and life. However, ultimately and at the end we will have the positive and life. Thanks to Jesus Christ, God will be all in all.

Instead of practicing hokeypokism, I recommend reading 1 Corinthians chapter 15 a couple of times. And do you guys understand the word "all"? All means all. It does NOT mean all with distincion or exception. That would only bring scriptural bias. Instead, all should refer to its contextual usage.

The book of Revelation is good, but it is not clearly written. There is a lot of figurative language in it. What is more clearly written is 1 Corinthians chapter 15. If one wants to understand what the second death is they need to study this chapter. Here is a verse to consider. 1 Cor 15:25-26 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. NIV This tells us that death will ultimately be destroyed. When something is destroyed it no longer exists. At some point there will be no more death. And at this time according to verse 28, God may or will be "all in all. The second death could also be looked at as the destruction of death itself. Here are some of the verses to study in context. 1 Cor 15:20-28 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. NKJV

Here is a link to a commentary that I wrote on 1 Corinthians chapter 12. 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 Over this past summer I wrote and edited two other commentaries. One for 1 Corinthians 13 and the other for chapter 14. I will add those to my web site when I get more time. One more thing on this. One of the Grease Spot Cafe posters did the primary editing on my 1 Corinthians chapter 13 commentary. His name is Tom and he did a good job on the editing. That is not yet on the internet, but I will add this to my site in the near future.

The only thing insignificant and a distraction was your last post Cman. The good thing about my posts here is that they are short, to the point and don't take long to read and understand. People who don't appreciate that must have a lot of free time. Which is the opposite of my busy schedule. People should be appreciative of others contributions here regardless of whether they agree or disagree. Otherwise you are simply going to have less people posting here.