Mark Sanguinetti

Wow, you think the Old Testament Law was as good as other nation's laws? Giggle giggle! From what I have read from the Old Testament law there are some good points in it. Some parts very harsh though. However, the Jewish religious leaders of the first century were not even following this law. They were mostly just after political power when they stoned people for talking out loud, for example the very truthful and bright believer, Stephen. For this see the last verses of Acts chapter 7.

Raf, you are clearly to me not understanding the words of Jesus Christ. In the Greek the word hang means to hang or suspend. Therefore this law was for their culture and not necessary for future cultures. Yes, it had some truth in it and may have been needful for some of the bad people of the Old Testament times, but Jesus Christ expands on this and suspends there law with his law of love. And to verify from my bible software according to the Thayer's Greek Lexicon, the Greek word for hang is kremannumi and means "to hang up, to suspend". According to an English dictionary suspend means as follows: "temporarily prevent from continuing or being in force or effect" One more thing historically as I see it all nations before Jesus Christ had a lot of death sentences in their laws.

Different laws for different cultures. Some morality in the culture of Israel and their laws, but their laws do not have the same morality that Jesus Christ brought to the church. Matt 22:36-40 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." NKJV And the religious Jews of the first century even sent their rocks after people like the great teacher Paul or maybe that was hanging him on a tree. No, that was what they did to my friend who I love Jesus Christ.

Good information provided by the posters here. One additional simple finance or 6th grade mathematics point also is that if the leaders of TWI can get their followers to sell their homes this is additional money in the banks or pockets of the people under them. With this the leaders of TWI can try to get them to donate some of this money to them. As long as they get more money perhaps they don't care if this also means higher monthly expenses through rent for their followers. Instead a true follower of Jesus Christ would simply want to help others around them and this would include providing good financial advise or letting the individuals figure out there own best financial lives.

O.K. Skyrider, thanks for the TWI information. What about Non-Way Corps people (people that were not part of the Way Corps)? Were they told no debt on your home and you had to sell it? That could be

Relating to what Wordwolf was writing, TWI and their deceptive Material Prosperity teachings. This I understand got even worse under Craig Martindale. Other people may know more about the details of what was taught than me, but I have heard that Martindale did not even allow people to own their own home. Unless I imagine it was completely paid for or at least I hope this was at least allowed when a home was completely paid for. However, owning your own home even with some debt should be O.K. also. As long as it shows good business sense and the debt is not to high and people can afford the monthly payments. So is having to rent and pay a monthly rental expense better than owning your own home with a monthly loan payment? Obviously that would depend of how high the monthly loan payment was and how long it would take to get the loan completely paid for. Obviously the goal should be making enough money to completely pay for your home in full and not having to rent every month. Of course TWI and their greed simply wanted people to sell their homes so that they could get more money in so called donations with a percentage of the sale price of the homes going to them. Anyone with this mind set has pure greed and nothing more. Biblically from the Old Testament God and others wanted every family to own their own home and/or property. Of course, we should have the same thing today.

I don't have time to post very much here, but I did buy a copy of The Genesis Question written by Hugh Ross. The man shows logic and reason in his evaluation of scripture mixed with science. He sees the limitation of words in the biblical Hebrew language in communication. This can cause a lack of understanding in later years after it was originally written and understood. Ross sees days as written in Genesis chapter 1 as not 24 hour periods but long periods of time which could even be in harmony with some parts of the theory of evolution. Here is information on the Hebrew language that I found on the internet that verifies my above statement on the limitations of the words in the biblical Hebrew language. http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/introduction.htm Biblical Hebrew has a very small vocabulary (about a quarter of the size of that used by Shakespeare and approximately 1% of the 660,000+ words contained in the Oxford English Dictionary). Of these, many only occur once or are proper names and can be safely looked up when the need arises. Hebrew has no formal recognisable cases (like Greek, Latin or German, with their nominative, accusative, genitive, dative etc.) and very simple word order which can be rearranged for emphasis. Although reading right to left this aspect of Hebrew learning is quickly mastered. The alphabet has just 22 letters - all consonants and all one case. The additional vowel marks above and below the consonants are not needed for advanced reading and after all were not added until some 5-6 centuries after the New Testament era. Each Hebrew letter actually represents an early pictographic symbol, e.g., Beth (as in Bethlehem - 'house of bread') was an image of a house or tent and so also the letter name itself is the Hebrew word for 'house'.

Here is part of a commentary that I have written and posted on the Internet that looks entirely in harmony and in agreement with Twinkies posts here. Another very important aspect of unity in the body of Christ is spoken plainly in 1 Corinthians 12:21-24. 21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, New International Version This is so contrary to the way worldly political institutions are run whether they be governmental or religious. In fact, with some religious groups, the leaders are so glorified that it chokes the spiritual life out of the common believer. This glorification may be gratifying to the flesh of the leaders, but in reality leaders should be esteemed only for their work and service to the church. Additionally, the members of the body which seem to be ordinary and unspectacular are very necessary. Because the functions and jobs that these faithful believers fulfill are not normally esteemed, we should compensate for this lack and esteem them highly. The reason that we do this is covered in the next verses 25 and 26. 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. New International Version Each member should have the same concern for one another. When one member suffers, every member suffers with it. When another member is honored, every member should rejoice with it. When this occurs there is no jealousy or other carnal reason for division in the body of Christ. The body of Christ will be a truly unified one with each member having a purpose and a part. 1 Corinthians chapter 12 Commentary

I am glad that people here on GreaseSpot Cafe oppose a liar like Victor Barnard, but again I am amazed that people around this person or that knew this person and knew what he was doing when he was doing it, but did not see this as wrong and harmful and oppose this person.

Waysider, do you even believe there is a God let alone a God of this world? Do you even believe anything in the bible? Do you even believe Jesus Christ ever lived and died and was risen from the dead? Are we even allowed to quote from the bible at all on this site anymore? I am glad you at least hope Victor Barnard gets brought to justice. However, the person is using the bible and religious authority to be able to have sex with under age girls. I am giving my view that the bible opposes this. I am amazed that people around this person did not see this and oppose this person at all.

I am amazed that this person Victor Barnard was able to get away with so many lies. Do you people know the source of lies and people believing the lies? They are demonic spirits. Lucky he did not try that with me. When I see liars I sometimes get very angry.

Thank you Waysider. Arf arf and woof woof.

Now I am crying. Does that mean just because I have faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ who I love that I don't get to relate to a dog? Well, I will do both anyway. Love the truth and doggies. Woof woof.

This was when you implied that dogs eat vomit. But then maybe like myself you also are part dog. Please let the doggie part of me have the final word in our debate. Woof woof.

Actually, if I ever post a new thread here it would be regarding this new knowledge that I have studied. Obviously, this would be posted in the doctrinal forum. And Raf, please don't criticize and find errors with dogs now. I loooove doggies. Woof woof. Maybe if what is being preached by people like you regarding the theory of evolution is true I might be part doggie or part monkey. Maybe this is why I start my day eating a banana in my cereal. :P Christian Universalism

I have not studied the book of Genesis enough to be a knowledgeable person on it. I am merely pointing out my desire and ability to correct doctrinal error. However, this always takes time and extra work.

Sounds like you are talking about yourself. In contrast, I also at least tried to correct an errant doctrine pertaining to Personal Prophecy with one of the way offshoots. They did not listen to me and eventually this resulted in a money losing lawsuit. To read this see the following text and click the link below it. This is the post that Mark S did on an email that he sent to 3 board members in November, 2000 Mark S's Email

There you go lying again about doctrines that I have accepted. Many doctrines that I have learned I have re-evaluated from the scriptures to see if what I believed was truth or error. If you don't see this then you are the equivalent of spiritually blind. Were you ever even in the way Ministry? There main doctrine of error was Lording over God's heritage through their unbiblical Way Tree hierarchy of Power. I corrected this in the article I just posted a link to. Again if you don't see that the Way Ministry main doctrine of spreading their falsity with power and authority was their Way Tree Power Structure, then you are either blind to the fundamental problem or never participated with the May Ministry at least when I was involved in the 1970s and 1980s. I corrected this errant doctrine. The Lordship of Jesus Christ

And Raf, please don't continue your deception with me. I can recall you saying or implying that I merely accepted the doctrines of the Way Mininisty. In reality I might be one of the people on the planet who have done the most to correct errant doctrines and replace it with truth. I even wrote an entire article in the 1980s on the fundamental error with the Way Ministry that of the Lordship of Jesus Christ and how they used unbiblical hierarchy of religious power to promote and try to enforce their deception. Here is a link to this article. http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-of-jesus-christ-page-1.html

I get a lot more errors from one of my puters than from a book of the bible. If you think you are more truthful than what is covered in the bible then you are playing the role now of a demonic deceiver.

If you think I am ignoring the errors then you are in turn ignoring the truth.

Raf, if you don't believe you can find any truth from the bible I really don't care. However, in order to find truth I have to actually study something and this takes time. I posted two biblical articles that I see as biblical truth, one of which I wrote and one which I know the subject of very well. Sorry, but I do not have time to study the book of Genesis now and test it for truth also.

Again this is the Doctrinal section of this forum. If you want to post in opposition to the doctrine of the bible then you are allowed to do this. However, anyone that is actually searching for truth, studying something that they see as untruthful would be counter productive in their actual search for truth. How can anyone get truth by studying something that they see as not truthful? Maybe they think that truth only comes from themselves.

Raf, you are being dishonest here. You want people only to read the bible and be opposed to its content. What about if someone reads sections of the bible, for example the writings of the Apostle Paul and agrees with its content? Again, I am sorry for getting off your topic of the book of Genesis. I have not studied this recently and will make no or limited comments on this at this time. However, you are in general promoting that the content of the bible is false and untruthful. I do not agree with this and clearly see this as false. The only falsity is in its errant interpretation. I have spent the last few weeks writing an entire biblical article on correcting some of this errant view. If you are interested here is the link to this article. http://www.christian-universalism.info/agegreekwords-pg1.html And Raf, you have been false with me in previous posts here saying that I was here to promote Way ministry doctrine of old. I have done much to correct errant Way doctrine as has Wordwolf.

This is literally the doctrinal section of this forum. Perhaps you don't want to see this. And yes the bible does involve doctrinal.