Mark Sanguinetti

Wordwolf, no one here is required to answer every question or comment on every person's post. Apparently, my posts and biblical information is more important than I thought when I originally posted them because I am now getting a lot of quotes and comments on them. Wordwolf, in your last post you are again placing negative comments on my posts, while ignoring my actual biblical content here. You are now doing what you are accusing me of doing. For example, your comment of "your phrasing was slanted". Can you at least try now to get back to this biblical subject here? My short comments verses your longer comments only take up more wasted reading time for the few readers here. And yes, you also have posted biblical information on this web site. Please get back to actual biblical content here which is 1 Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14. For commentaries on these three chapters here are links: 1 Corinthians 12 1 Corinthians 13 1 Corinthians 14

Wordwolf, you often read the context of posts, but as it relates to my post of any accusations, I have not been the person who has started negative posts that you call "personal attacks" seen at the end of post #433. Instead I write comments on biblical verses while directly quoting from the verses. This is seen here in post #419. Then I get negative comments from another poster here that says, "I don't see how this follows logic", from post #424 and "that's not relevant" from post #428. So then after my comment on this following his. I get a less negative comment so I ignore it. Now I am getting a negative comment from you. Fortunately, now Raf is posting NO negative comment to my posts and instead a favorable one and is seeing them originating only as biblical verses followed by comments. Now I am agreeing with Raf. I hope this is O.K. to do. Please don't consider agreeing with another poster now as a negative statement.

So then Oakspear you sound like one of the people that believes in eternal torment for a lifetime of sin. This belief originated in pagan religions. Egyptian had some of this and then Greek philosophy added to this. So apparently you also believe in ancient Greek philosophy. Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Here is a link to some historical information on the origin of the belief of hell. The Origin of Hell-Fire in Christian Teaching Here is another link with some historical information as to the origin of the belief of the hell myth These articles are not biblical studies. Instead they offer some historical information. Here is some more actual biblical information. Oakspear very likely won't believe this. Perhaps in part because I wrote the commentary following the verses. However, other people that have read it have liked it and agreed with it. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. NIV God has delegated all things pertaining to the church for the salvation of mankind under Jesus Christ his Son. We see in the above verses in Adam all die and in Christ all will be made alive. Since we have death for all of humanity, even Jesus Christ, we have in or through Christ all in the future made alive. This order of life after death is Christ first being raised from the dead. Then when He comes those who belong to him or the followers of Jesus Christ being raised from the dead. For an explanation of this see 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Next we see all dominion, authority and power destroyed with Jesus Christ reigning as King or ruler until He has put all, and this includes even his enemies, under his feet or rulership. Then the last enemy to be destroyed is death. In the original Greek the word for destroyed (katargeoo) means "to render idle, unemployed, inoperative, to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish". Death cannot be destroyed by there only being no further death. Death can only be destroyed and put to an end with the addition of a general resurrection. When death is finally destroyed this means no more death for humanity with all being made alive. When Jesus Christ finally reaches his goal of all or everything under His lordship or rulership, then Jesus Christ will turn back this authority to God his Father, so that God will or "may be all in all". This means all of humanity under God's commandments and with God's character, the foundation of which according to Jesus Christ as seen in Matthew 22:36-40 is to love God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.

The word translated everlasting in Matthew 25:41 and 25:46 is the Greek word aiōnios. This is Strong's number 166. This is related to the word translated a number of times in the noun form as age, which is aion in the Greek. Did you click my link above and see the many usages of this word with a time limit. The descriptive adjective used word is aionios. A definition of aionios is of or belonging to the age or ages. Since aion or age is often seen with a time limit then aionios can also mean enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. This related word could also simply refer to that which comes from God and relate to His purposes over a period of time or a number of periods of times or even eternal. It is important to understand that this word could refer to eternal or a period of time that has an ending. Click the link above and clearly see this. If you want information on this then read my article, which also cover 1 Corinthians 15. This chapter was written by Paul who had more knowledge than other biblical writers.

1 Corinthians 14:2 New International Version For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. New Living Translation For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. English Standard Version For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. Oakspear, since I just posted the above verse on speaking in tongues, do you want to now ignore this verse? What do you believe about speaking in tongues from this verse and other verses? Believe whatever you want.

Oakspear, you are misunderstanding the word fire and the many biblical usages. Here you are only looking at the usage in verse 41 as it relates to the devil and the devil spirits. You are also misunderstanding the word age, which is often written in biblical usages of a limited time period. Usages of the word Age with a time limit So are you one of the people that believes in eternal torment for a lifetime of sin? So how can we have a God of justice with that belief? This present evil age has a time limit. Life is eternal only as it relates to God who is eternal.

So when you hear people speak do you understand every language? For example, if you are in a foreign country? Here is the first usage of tongue in the New Testament. This is Strong's number 1100 Mark 7:32-35 32 Then they brought to Him (Jesus) one who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech, and they begged Him to put His hand on him. 33 And He (Jesus) took him aside from the multitude, and put His fingers in his ears, and He (Jesus) spat and touched his tongue (gloossa). 34 Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him, "Ephphatha," that is, "Be opened." 35 Immediately his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue (gloossa) was loosed, and he spoke plainly. New Kings James Version Above we see clearly the usage of the word tongue (gloossa) as a body part used for speech.

Matthew 25:42-46 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting [aiōnios] punishment: but the righteous into life eternal [aiōnios]. KJV Matthew 25:46 can be used to promote the pagan concept of eternal torment for a lifetime of sin. However, the context is the more simplified doing good works of feeding and clothing the poor or people who need it the most. As we know eternal torment for simply not feeding or clothing the poor does not follow the love of God and a number of other verses and godly concepts. Or as Mark 8:4, states in a question to Jesus, "Where can we get enough bread to feed them?" Here feeding all the people involved a miracle of God carried out by Jesus Christ. Should we be punished eternally for not praying and believing for a miracle of God? Or for not spending all of our own money to help feed the poor? Torment in Matthew 25:46 is the Greek word (using my very good biblical software) kolasis, which is Strong's number 2851. According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon this means correction, punishment, penalty. Yes, punishment and penalty is involved in this. However, correction is also involved with God through his Son Jesus Christ having the goal of correcting mankind from its sin nature or in this case lack of ability to help our fellow man. The only other usage of kolasis, translated punishment in the entire New Testament is read in I John 4:18. This verse reads as follows: 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment (kolasis). But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. Here punishment, also called torment, involves fear. Fear is the Greek word fobos, Strong's #5401 and according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, fear means dread and terror or it can mean reverence and respect. With 46 usages of fobos (fear) in the New Testament, we can see both usages. When using actual reason and logic, we should see the goal of correcting or improving mankind so that we all will help our fellow man.

Because of a busy as a bee work schedule, I don't have time to answer questions and make a lot of statements. However, regarding the question of eternal punishment. I have written an article showing this is NOT a true statement as it relates to biblical content while studying the word "Age", which is the New Testament word for a long period of time. Yes, reading my article will take time, but not as long of time that I spent writing this article with link below. Age and the Greek Words Aion, Aionas and Aionios

Raf, this is under doctrinal. Therefore adding of scriptural information is part of this. People or spiritual beings add deliberate deception all the time. And yes, part of this can be to control people with fear. As an example of deliberate deception, the first biblical deception in chapter 3 of Genesis is the statement, "You will not surely die". Do people at least see that with the life of our physical bodies there is also decay resulting in death? And not decay resulting in a new life? Since this deception is done through missed information from the bible, In order to remedy this deception, people need more accurate and truthful educational information from the bible. Otherwise, a person that believes in the bible, unlike yourself, could believe in errant deceptive information.

Here is an article on one of my web sites on this subject of hell. The Biblical Teaching of Hell

Below is information that I have written from one of my web sites. This is the equivalent of a commentary. I likely have posted this before here. Perhaps more than a year ago. 1 Corinthians Chapter 14 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue (gloossa) speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. King James Version The biblical usage of speaking in tongues over the years has been very controversial among Christians and especially in various churches. Plenty of Christians do not understand what speaking in tongues is nor do they believe in it. Others believe in it, but sometimes do not speak in tongues at churches without a great deal of confusion. With this in mind we are going to do a short study of speaking in tongues purely from New Testament scriptures. First of all biblically the Greek word for “tongues” here in 14:2 is the Greek word “gloossa.” From the Thayer’s Greek to English lexicon it means literally the tongue as a member of our physical body, which is the organ of speech. Tongues (gloossa) can also represent a language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations. To see this let’s look at scriptures, which use this Greek word. Mark 7:32-35 32 Then they brought to Him (Jesus) one who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech, and they begged Him to put His hand on him. 33 And He (Jesus) took him aside from the multitude, and put His fingers in his ears, and He (Jesus) spat and touched his tongue (gloossa). 34 Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him, "Ephphatha," that is, "Be opened." 35 Immediately his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue (gloossa) was loosed, and he spoke plainly. New Kings James Version Above we see clearly the usage of the word tongue (gloossa) as a body part used for speech. This should clearly tell us that tongues as inspired by the Holy Spirit can include our actual tongue body part with the speaker in control of his own. Next we will look at usages of tongues (gloossa) used for speech as inspired by the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:3-4 3 And there appeared unto them cloven (diamerizoo) tongues (gloossa) like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (gloossa), as the Spirit gave them utterance. King James Version Holy Ghost above from the King James Version is the same as Hoy Spirit in other versions. In Acts 2 we have for the first time the Holy Spirit, which Jesus promised to give to his followers. Here we see the Holy Spirit coming to Jesus’ twelve disciples looking like divided tongues of fire and sitting on each of them. The Greek word used for “cloven” is “diamerizoo.” “Diamerizoo” is normally translated divided and means to divide or cut in pieces. From this we see a vision or a painted picture spiritually of what occurs with the receiving of the Holy Spirit. We see the Holy Spirit being individually given, but we see every individual gift of Holy Spirit interconnected. In the vision it starts off as one tongue of fire, but then is divided separately among recipients. This is harmonious with Ephesians 2:18 which states “we have access to the Father by one Spirit”, and Ephesians 4:4 which states “There is one body and one Spirit…” With this they were each filled with the Holy Spirit and the first thing they did was speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance or as the Spirit enabled them. This was prophesied during Jesus’ earthly ministry for example, Matthew 3:11 quotes John the Baptist, “He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” It is interesting that at this time we had a festival known as Pentecost or the feast of harvest. According to Acts 2:5, we had Jews in Jerusalem at this festival from every nation with multiple languages spoken and understood. What was noticed by these people from other nations was that there were 12 Galileans speaking foreign languages, many of which they could not have known. People from Galilee were not known for their linguistic ability or knowledge. Some of these listed nations with languages are as follows: Acts 2:8-11 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians… King James Version Then continuing in verse 11, “we do hear them speak in our tongues (gloossa) the wonderful works of God.” Or stated with more detail, these people of many nations heard the disciples of Jesus Christ speak of the magnificent, excellent, splendid, and wonderful works or things done by God. And this was spoken in a language that the speakers themselves did not know and therefore did not understand. Yet it was all done with their own vocal ability. Next, we see that tongues is also words that “magnify God.” Acts 10:44-46 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God... New King James Version Here we see for the first time Gentiles also receiving the gift of Holy Spirit. Gentiles is a term used by Jewish people to refer to foreigners, or any other people who were not part of the Jewish race. And like the twelve original disciples, who were also Jesus’ apostles, the first thing the Gentiles did after receiving the Holy Spirit was speak in tongues and with this magnify God. Magnifying God is declaring or deeming as great or to esteem highly, to extol, to laud, to celebrate God’s greatness. To summarize from the scriptures we have covered including 1 Corinthians 13:1, the chapter before this and now 1 Corinthians 14:2 we see that tongues or speaking in tongues is the following: 1. From Mark 7:33-35, the physical human tongue as used for speech. 2. From Acts 2:4, speaking inspired words from the Holy Spirit. 3. From Acts 2:11, speaking the wonderful works of God. 4. From Acts 10:46, speaking words that magnify God or declare that God is great. 5. From 1 Corinthians 13:1, which also uses the word “gloossa,” speaking a language either of men or angels. 5. From 1 Corinthians 14:2, speaking mysteries or divine secrets directly to God and not man. As we saw in Acts 2, sometimes people can understand what is being spoken in tongues, but this is rare and could be considered miraculous. Speaking in tongues is speaking to God a hidden or secret thing as inspired by the Holy Spirit. The fact that these people of different nations heard the 12 apostles speak in their own native individual languages is phenomenon, and a reverse effect of that which occurred at the Tower of Babel when God confounded the languages. See Genesis chapter 11, verses 1-9. That everyone understood in their own different language in Acts chapter 2 does not normally happen, but apparently this phenomenon was a sign of the importance and significance of the receiving of the Holy Spirit as promised by God. If someone speaks in tongues or speaks in tongues with interpretation, it is possible for someone to know the language or tongue if it is a language of men that they know. However, the person speaking in tongues according to the scriptures will not know the language otherwise it wouldn’t be a tongue described as a mystery or divine secret to the speaker.

Now in your post 260 you quote some, but leave out lines of my post to promote your own views which disagree with others. You are acting now like your serpent of the book of Genesis. Here again is my actual post. And then you don't answer my questions. The answer to the deception seen in the book of Genesis is "You will not surely die". And today in churches they often think after death people go directly to heaven. Did Jesus Christ go directly to heaven after death? No, instead he is the first to rise from the dead to have eternal life. If people after death go directly to heaven or as the deceptive figurative serpent states in the book of Genesis, "You will not surely die". Then why do we need Jesus Christ at all?

Now you are assuming that we can change the way things in the bible are written to meet our own views. Instead some additional scriptural analysis should be included. And this would include how things were communicated in one time versus another time. For example, no mention of the devil in the Old Testament. For the KJV version 61 references of devil in the New Testament. And regarding your usage here of the word "blind". Do you at least see what the first and greatest deception that was promoted? And this deception or as you have worded as 'blind" is still promoted today by Christian churches. I will even give you a hint as to what this is. "You will not surely xxxx" And what is taught today in many churches after someone stops breathing? Where do they say they go?

Now it looks like you may be assuming that everything written in the bible is literally true and actually took place. No, not everything that was written in the bible needs to be literally true to teach and communicate spiritual truth. People get truthful thoughts and false thoughts all the time today also. Does that mean that one needs to literally see a serpent in order for the devil to deceive people today and in past times? Again for that culture at the time, which was perhaps written by Moses, painting this sender of this deception as a serpent would expand the negative thoughts pertaining to the message, the deception used and the sender of the message. Again, think about this TLC. Do all things written in the bible need to have literally taken place in order to teach spiritual truth? Or can some scriptures be written in figurative language and teach spiritual truth, perhaps even with emphasis?

Many languages are used for communication. And yes, the story from Genesis with the serpent is figurative and not literal. It does show us that words can be used for deception and false information as used by the figurative serpent representing the God of this world Satan or for truth by God the Father. Serpents were likely looked down upon with dislike in the time period of the writings of the book of Genesis. And they can not literally talk. If this would have been literally true then the serpent would have been avoided and run away from or had large rocks thrown at it and smashed with a bat and destroyed. Who likes a serpent well enough to talk with one? And yes, this is the views of someone who likes dogs and cats and wants to always pet them. And now with additional editing, I looked up snakes in my biblical software under Nelson's Bible Dictionary and it says: "Most snakes in Palestine were non-poisonous, but the Jewish people feared and hated all snakes". And serpents were the snakes most negatively seen.

And Spectrum49, I will do some editing to my commentary and might include the Greek word "idios" and its definition. You have made a very good point about the misleading or vague use of severally from the king James Version. And I understand from another post that you are from Noo Yawk. Did I pronounce that correctly in your part of the state? And as I am typing this I am wearing a historic black baseball jacket with GIANTS on the front and NY on the right upper sleeve. NY stands for Noo Yawk or at least this is how I pronounce it. And my hope today is that I get you to giggle. Thank you for your input.

I cover a lot of detail in my commentary, but not every single detail with every single Greek word definition. And yes, your understanding of idios as seen in the Greek is correct (pertaining to oneself, one's own, from Thayer's Greek Lexicon). Also it is God through the Holy Spirit working with man for the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. And yes, man's desire is part of this. We are not the equivalent of robots or puppets.

Here are some very helpful for understanding commentaries on 1 Corinthians 12, 13 and 14, written by someone named Mark Sanguinetti. Who is that? 1 Corinthians 12 1 Corinthians 13 1 Corinthians 14

It looks to me like the Way Ministry got their teachings on adminstration from EW Bullinger's book "How to Enjoy the Bible". This book may have been misread. I have only read parts of this book as instead for bible study I use my bible software and look up information myself. However, as an analysis of Oikonomia from this book at least Bullinger as read on page 79, figured out that oikonomia "was used of the management or administration of a household". Did Victor Wierwille and other people involved see that???

Steve read my short post again and don't leave out the definition of oikonomia. Please don't misread this short post. It does not disagree with your posts overall. It is simply easier to read. And please don't leave out the words management and manager in my post for your analysis. NT:3622 oikonomia, oikonomias, hee the management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of others' property; the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship: Luke 16:2-4 NT:3623 oikonomos, oikonomou, ho the manager of a household or of household affairs; especially a steward, manager, superintendent Luke 12:42 (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.) Above using my very good biblical software is the definition of the Greek word that Steve Lortz mentions. These are two related words or the equivalent of the verb form and noun form. Another words one is management. The other is manager. This is just to simplify and is in harmony with the words usages. About 15 years ago I tried to explain this to John Schoenheit also. I like him and think he can be a good bible teacher, but on this subject he should have read this with an open mind. Here is the ONLY usage that relates to a period or in this usage periods of time. Ephesians 1:10 10 That in the dispensation (oikonomia) of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: KJV It basically states that in the management by Jesus Christ of the times after his resurrection that he will eventually gather together all in Jesus Christ. He will eventually do this because Jesus is the saviour of mankind. This will be in the future and will require the fullness of times. And adding to this here is the definition of times, which is the Strong's number 2540. See below that this is a measure or portion of time and these measures of time could be larger or smaller. And this is plural usage of time or times. NT:2540 kairos, kairou, ho 1. due measure; nowhere so in the Biblical writings. 2. a measure of time; a larger or smaller portion of time; hence, a. universally, a fixed and definite time: Rom 13:11; 2 Cor 6:2; (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000 by Biblesoft) And Steve I am only quoting ONE usage of this word oikonomia. If you want to make your point again, which I do not disagree with then quote other verses.

NT:3622 oikonomia, oikonomias, hee the management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of others' property; the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship: Luke 16:2-4 NT:3623 oikonomos, oikonomou, ho the manager of a household or of household affairs; especially a steward, manager, superintendent Luke 12:42 (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.) Above using my very good biblical software is the definition of the Greek word that Steve Lortz mentions. These are two related words or the equivalent of the verb form and noun form. Another words one is management. The other is manager. This is just to simplify and is in harmony with the words usages. About 15 years ago I tried to explain this to John Schoenheit also. I like him and think he can be a good bible teacher, but on this subject he should have read this with an open mind. Here is the only usage that relates to a period or in this usage periods of time. Ephesians 1:10 10 That in the dispensation (oikonomia) of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: KJV It basically states that in the management by Jesus Christ of the times after his resurrection that he will eventually gather together all in Jesus Christ. He will eventually do this because Jesus is the saviour of mankind. This will be in the future and will require the fullness of times.

WOW Twinky, it looks like you found some really smart trees as seen in that YouTube video. And trees that look like they can even walk. And if this thread gets moved. I wonder where it will be moved to? Humor, In the Kitchen, Open, Soap Opera???? But perhaps Humor if we can get people to giggle enough.

Maybe year2027 thinks in the future both computer hardware and software can be placed inside trees and even apples, while turning them into robots. I hope he at least sees that trees would have a difficult time moving and walking. However, when he first mentioned apple here perhaps he was referring to an apple computer.

Hi Steve: I use some very good bible study software. It has a lot of reference material to help with analysis that takes much less time than going to a library. Plus you can even copy and paste to one of your written documents. For years I used it in Windows XP only. Lately though they indicate on their web site that they have coded this to be on Windows 7 and also on a Mac computer. Here is a link to there web site: https://biblesoft.com/