Mark Sanguinetti

WordWolf started this discussion regarding God creating physical earth and life and NOT spiritual life or existence. I am very busy now with business. Any post I make here will be on topic with WordWolf's 3 starting posts regarding the creation of earth. I hope TLC at least understands that the devil is spiritual and NOT physical.

God did not create this spiritual being as the devil. God instead created this being as one of God's angles. God gives humanity and the angels, the free will to what ever they want to do. We are not puppets on a string. This angel was greedy and instead of being service oriented like God wants us to be, this angel turned to bad, while wanting to have the same authority as God or maybe more. Then when God saw that, God removed this spiritual being from heaven to earth. God in this age or period of time, uses this angel or devil to test humanity. At the start of the new heaven and new earth as read in Revelation 21. God will place the devil and the demons who followed the devil in prison to at least limit the devil from the deception of humanity.

God and Jesus Christ give people the free will to believe what they want to believe. As an example of free will for humanity, Thomas, one of the 12 original disciples, later to be called apostles, did not believe that Jesus was risen from dead until he saw Jesus in his resurrected body, while even needing to touch Jesus Christ where He had been nailed to a cross. John 20:25 25 ….So he (Thomas) said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe." (NKJV) Finally when Thomas saw Jesus, while even needing to touch Jesus Christ, he fully believed in Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior. John 20:26-28 26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" (NKJV) Maybe Raf, when sometimes reading his posts sounds like Thomas.

1 Timothy 1:1-2 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope, 2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. (NKJV) What ever people want to believe is up to the individual person. Paul also called Saul with his other Jewish name. When Jesus Christ appeared to him, made a major change from a hateful Pharisee, to a peaceful and humble person. When Saul or Paul was a Pharisee, he was even involved in a religious murder of a Christian.

Regarding Paul, who wrote the most New Testament scriptures. At least Paul showed humility in comparing himself to the original apostles. 1 Corinthians 15:9-10 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (NKJV) In addition, Paul was a friend of Luke, the medical physician, who perhaps wrote the second most amount of scriptures. 2 Timothy 4:11 11 Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry. (NKJV) Colossians 4:14 14 Luke the beloved physician and Demas greet you. (NKJV)

Since soap is used for physical cleaning. Soap could figuratively represent spiritual cleaning or purification through God and his Son Jesus Christ. The book of Malachi, the last book of the Old Testament, looks prophetic for Jesus Christ.

The word "fire" from the New Testament was translated from the Greek word beginning with "pur" and "puros" as a part of speech. The first part of the definition of this Greek word from VINE'S EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY is the following: (a) of the holiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistent therewith, Hebrews 10:27; 12:29; cf. Revelation 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 15:2; 19:12; similarly of the holy angels as His ministers Hebrews 1:7 in Revelation 3:18 it is symbolic of that which tries the faith of saints, producing what will glorify the Lord: (b) of the divine judgment, testing the deeds of believers, at the judgment seat of Christ 1 Corinthians 3:13 and 15: (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.) Since "pur" begins with the same letters as "purgatory". This could be why the Roman Catholic Church came up with the word "purgatory".

At least 100% FALSENESS. cman simply wants to type the last message when ever he types on a Grease Spat Cafe forum. As an example of falseness. In the biblical teaching book that I wrote, as I was leaving TWI in the last years of the 1980s, I began the writing of the chapter, "Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man". Then I handed to TWI people paper copies of this article. The main doctrine that I opposed was their hierarchy structure. In quoting from the current revised book chapter is the following: "Today we have false doctrines such as the pope being the Vicar of Christ, or that by our minds renewed to God’s word we take the place of the absent Christ, as was taught in the Christian organization I used to associate with."

Revelation 21:4 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." New King James Version In the new heaven and new earth things will be MUCH BETTER than it is now with even no wars. There will be MUCH MORE PEACE than we have now, especially between nations. Especially when Jesus Christ returns to earth and has MUCH more earthly or worldly authority than He has now in this age or period of time with the devil and demons able to whisper into people's ears for deception. I figuratively call the demons and devil, spiritual pixss ants or gnats. Miss spelling because I was not able to spell the word for when we go to the bathroom and do what we often need to do to remove liquid from our physical bodies.

In the new heaven and new earth. The bible says, we will have no pain.

Revelation 21:1-4 1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." New King James Version I wonder if in the current age or period of time that we live now in the current earth. Will this help us have no pain? I do not think this will help us have no pain.

It is OK and good to not be fearful of death with two future resurrections of the dead. The resurrection of the dead before the new heaven and new earth is quoted again from the New King James version with judgement. I consider this future judgment to be truthful.

Yes, any fear should NOT be from the phrase "lake of fire". Any fear should instead be from Revelation 20:14, "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." NKJV The next verse can be viewed favorably with people who did not see Jesus Christ in a favorable way during their life being written in the "Book of Life". Using common godly spiritual sense and even my brain, these will be peaceful and helpful people who did not commit crimes, such as murder. Clearly, Revelation 20:11-15 involves the judgement of God and Jesus Christ. Revelation 20:15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." NKJV The next verse, John got a vision of a new heaven and a new earth. Revelation 21:1 1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. NKJV The phrase "no more sea", could be only purified water in the new heaven and new earth.

I attended and graduated from a Roman Catholic high school. The religious belief of so called "purgatory" is much better than the ERRANT belief that people do not really die. When people breathe their last breath, most of humanity goes to so called hell for eternal torment with only a few people, perhaps because they were part of their denomination, going to heaven with eternal life. That ERRANT belief has a mindset of the 1st century Pharisees and their religious beliefs. For information on the history of the religious belief of purgatory, I recommend going to this web site. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_purgatory

Only John, the author of the book of Revelation, uses the phrase "lake of fire". Combining a lake which has water used for putting out physical fires can show us that the phrase "lake of fire" is spiritual and not physical. Another example that "fire" used in the bible is often spiritual instead of physical, was the original receiving of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost historically from Acts chapter 2. The word fire from Acts 2:3 is from the exact same Greek word "puros" in the phrase "lake of fire". Again, that should clearly show followers of Jesus Christ, that the word "fire" often represents spiritual from our heavenly Father, God. As long as we have brains and even want to use our brains.

As Wordwolf points out, there is no word "purgatory" in any version of the bible. If someone thinks there is, please quote from that bible version, the verse that has "purgatory". Using the actual bible, this involves the phrase "lake of fire" as listed using the New Kings James version in Revelation 19:20, 20:10, 20:14 and 20:15. The word for "fire", is from the Greek word "puros". This Greek word simply represents God and the holiness of God. Quoting from the New King James Version from Revelation 20:11-15: This involves the judgement of God and Jesus Christ God's Son at the second resurrection for people who did not believe in Jesus Christ. For people who will be judged favorably, they will be listed in the "Book of Life". The following chapter is Revelation 21 and the new heaven and new earth.

Regarding accusations, cman looks like the only accusations genius on this forum. For example, when he typed "I guess you boys are the beginning and end of all knowledge and wisdom. You know, there might be more than you think." It looks like he does not know or wants to ignore that there is more than he thinks also. If I had a question asked to me like I asked to cman. I would have answered it by even quoting from the bible the following verses. This judgement could be considered a supreme court. God and his Son Jesus Christ are the only geniuses for this type of judgement before the new heaven and new earth as read in Revelation chapters 21 and 22.

I wonder with regard to bad people who committed crimes such as murder with the thievery of money and other bad crimes with out being arrested and charged for their crimes. Right after their death, perhaps for 1 second, does cman think they are resurrected to go to heaven with eternal life? Or go to so called hell with eternal torment? Or something else?

If these followers of Christ, called Saints, were literally dead that were in graves, why did a number of Saints die in only a few years or the length of the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ?? Since this miracle was only written by a follower of Christ, who previously was perhaps a tax collector (Matthew 9:9-11) while working with the Romans. I wonder did only tax collectors have enough faith to see the power of the resurrection????? Using sarcasm!

Does cman also think that people who persecuted followers of Christ, for example religious 1st century Pharisees are also in heaven now??? In addition, people who committed crimes of theft and murder so that they could make much money. Does cman think they are in heaven now or in hell with punishment?? Honestly, I do not think either one. Instead I believe, like many people here, that they are in the grave or dead, awaiting a future resurrection of judgment as read in Revelation 20:11-15.

With regard to the definitions of Koine Greek words for the New Testament. I use references to the actual definitions of Koine Greek words often in my biblical book. especially in two chapters named: Chapter 6: Page 65 Age and the Greek Words That Begin with Aioon Chapter 14: Page 171 The Mythology of Hell That Contradicts Scriptures The basics of this chapter is that the word hell should be translated "the grave or the place of the dead", instead of hell which involves torment with pain, especially eternally. This belief began with Egyptian, Greek and Roman gods. Yes, other books should also be considered, if they are quoted from in the bible. Yes, bible text could be altered, especially if they contradict other scriptures. Regarding Matthew 27:52-53 "and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." (NKJV). This would obviously be a miracle. Why was this miracle only mentioned in two verses and not the other gospels and other New Testament scriptures?

Thank you very much for helping me laugh. With regard to the subject of Matthew 27:52-53. Instead of calling someone that this is the author of a biblical teaching book "not very smart" or "an idiot". I recommend that we address this subject, instead of criticizing a follower of Jesus Christ. Using my biblical study software program, here is a commentary on these two verses with legitimate copy right information at the end of this quote. Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [And the graves were opened] By the earthquake; and many bodies of saints which slept, i.e. were dead, sleep being a common expression for death in the Scriptures. Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [And came out of the graves after his resurrection] Not BEFORE, as some have thought, for Christ was himself the FIRST FRUITS of them who slept, 1 Corinthians 15:20. The graves were opened at his death, by the earthquake, and the bodies came out at his resurrection. [And appeared unto many.] Thus establishing the truth of our Lord's resurrection in particular, and of the resurrection of the body in general, by many witnesses. Quesnel's reflections on these passages may be very useful: 1. The veil being rent shows that his death is to put an end to the figurative worship, and to establish the true religion. 2. The earthquake, that this dispensation of the Gospel is to make known through the earth the judgments of God against sin and sinners. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

WOW, it reads like you are promoting death, perhaps even as a cheer leader for death. Sorry, but I am not a cheer leader for death or the grave.

That shows that people that call themselves Christian perhaps do not really need Jesus Christ to have eternal life. Simply implying that Jesus Christ was NOT the first of humanity to be raised from the dead to live eternally, shows an errant and deceptive mindset.

Here is a web site link which is a commentary regarding controversial scriptures from Matthew 27:52-53. Every follower of Jesus Christ should see and understand that Jesus Christ was the first human to be raised from the dead to live eternally. https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Matthew/chapter27/53