Charity

As suggested on this website, I started to read the gospel of John this evening in order to get to know Jesus and how he lived. John 5:23 really stood out because it related to my earlier post of today about Christians I knew in the past who worshiped both Jesus and God equally because of their belief in the trinity, and how I instead began to exalt God much, much higher than Jesus because of my belief that Jesus was not God and my desire not to be an "idolater" like them. John 8:31,32 says, “Then Jesus said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you continue in my word, then you are truly my disciples, 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 5:23 speaks the truth on this matter. In it Jesus says, “so that all will honor the son just as (even as) they honor the father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.” God the father and Jesus the son (not God the son) are both to be equally honored (respected, esteemed, admired). What peace this brings to anyone who wants to build a relationship with Jesus such as moi! (that’s “me” in French). I'm Canadian by the way.

OldSkool wrote: For me, my entire perspective changed on everything in life when I realized that Christ wasn't absent and that he can be a very interactive Lord with each individual in his body, depending on relationship. Recently, when my heart's perspective does begin to shift from an absent Christ to a present Christ, I find I become very emotional. It’s like something inside me wants me to experience these truths (not just think of them) but the strong reaction I feel is so intense that I shut down. The reason for this is most likely past childhood trauma which led to a lifetime of self-loathing and feelings of unworthiness. I have tried (and failed) many times to deal with these through counseling, self-help books and my involvement in the way. I feel now however that it is something Jesus is going to have do for me. So this is where I’m at right now – talking to him.

WordWolf wrote: vpw was unable to teach us about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus The first time I went to a fellowship at the Vineyard church in my city, their worship team of musicians and singers sang “Holy and Anointed One.” Most of the people there sang along with their eyes closed, their hands lifted up and their faces showing their love for Jesus. I found myself not even being able to mouth the words without crying my eyes out. Never had I sang a song “to” Jesus before – only about him. I knew the tears were coming from a deep (but buried) longing to experience his love. I have tried to copy and paste the website for this song but it doesn’t come up when you click on it. If, however, you want to google “holy and anointed song” and pick the shortest version, you can hear it. If you do, can you imagine vp doing the same as the believers did in that fellowship (eyes closed, hands lifted up, face showing a love for Jesus)? Impossible. He would never humble himself enough to do so.

T-Bone wrote: “God NEVER intended for Jesus to be worshipped as an idol.” chapter and verse please... T-Bone wrote: “God NEVER intended for Jesus to be worshipped as an idol.” chapter and verse please... For me, the teaching that Jesus Christ is not God tied in with how Christ eventually became absent in my life. In the past, I had observed how trinity-believing Christians used each name (Jesus and God) interchangeably in their teachings and prayers (often within the same sentence). They gave God and Jesus the same amount of recognition and adoration. When I stopped believing in the deity of Christ while in the way, these believers became “idolaters” who were breaking God’s commandment of having no other gods before Him (Deut 5:7). Since I didn’t want to be an idolater like them (no way, no how), I began to prioritize God above Jesus in my spiritual life. Over time, this exalting of God and demoting of Jesus led to having the absent Christ. After that, when I would read verses like Col 2:6,7 “Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him, 7having been firmly rooted and now are being built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, overflowing with thankfulness,” I gave mental assent to them only – yeah, yeah, yeah. It's apparent to me now how insidiously the adversary worked within the way ministry to negate verses like these which clearly declare the importance of Jesus in our lives right now.

I've only read the first page of this thread and I'll probably share more later but the phrase that still "haunts" me is "The Word, the Word and nothing but the Word." Maybe this has already been mentioned previously - I don't know. It's not just the words in the phrase I remember but also how emphatically VP would say them, often with him holding the Bible up in the air. As a result, I spent hundreds of hours studying the Word, reading what was said about the Word, listening to tapes about the Word... during my time in the ministry (1974-1986) BUT I had spent next to no time in a relationship with Jesus. Even after leaving the ministry, I continued on this "intellectual" journey but an emptiness was always there. I've spent a couple of weeks on various GS forums, but the mention of Jesus on this first page was emotional for me to read. Thank you for sharing on this topic.