Charity

I think I found my mistake. When I had asked what “scribe mode” meant, your answer was “grammatical experts” and added that these were the ones who wandered around correcting Jesus on various things like healing a man on the Sabbath. So then going back to your statement to me, “How about focusing on the other question rather than back into scribe mode on this,” I thought you were saying that I had been in a scribe mode which meant I was being like those correcting-grammatical experts. When I asked if this was what you were saying, I included John 5:15,16 because it had to do with your example of Jesus healing a man on the Sabbath. This is where I let my emotions take me over the top. Looking back, it would have been better to have simply asked if you were implying that I was in the grammatical-expert mode and if so, why. After going through everyone’s postings for the past 3 pages in search of the ones that were between the two of us, I saw how I probably did go into the scribe mode when I quoted Rom 10:8-13 in response to your questions. I also realize that I had detoured from what you wanted to discuss: whether confessing Rom 10:9,10 entailed a rote formulaic approach to the new birth as well as how you thought that PFAL’s version of the new birth was to go through a Rom 10:9,10 checklist thereby forgetting about or replacing Jesus. My apologies on both matters. I do feel that this is an important topic, so I will begin to respond to it in my next posting to you.

Chockfull, I don't know how we've come to this point? I feel bad about it. I'm going through all of our posts to each other from the last two pages to understand why you would ask me, "Is the only thing you are gaining from this conversation a series of hyper personalized perceived “accusations” or slights?" to which my immediate reply is no.

I think if you've read what I've written since I started posting on page 37 in this thread, you would know my answer to these questions.

I was very much like you Chockfull in my "need" to have the scriptures fit together (like a hand in a glove) as we were taught was of utmost importance in the cult TWI. As was often STRESSED, I very much wanted to study to show myself approved unto God, a workman that wouldn't have to be ashamed. I'm learning to loosen up on all this since being on GSC. I agree there is great value in scripture study and that this needs to be done along with prayer and discussion of scripture topics. The religious groups I've found on the internet almost always have a section detailing their "beliefs" which I think are the topics from which they won't on. However, from my experience with The Vineyard church (which is the only church I've spent time with after TWI), I found that most would openly discuss scripture topics without coming down on you and saying things like "you are very prideful because you don't believe in what our church teaches" as do those in extreme fundamentalism. I would agree they have "little minds" since I used to be one.

So when you said earlier, "How about focusing on the other question rather than back into scribe mode on this?" are you saying I was acting like a "grammatical expert?" who you then said were the Jews wandering around correcting Jesus on various things? John 5:15,16 talks about these specific Jews (who were also probably among the Jews who later on were screaming for Jesus be crucified). John 5:15 The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who made him whole. 16 And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. Just asking.

Chockfull, what does "back into scribe mode on this" mean? Also, to help me with answering your question from your previous post, I need to ask you about "The new birth is a personal matter." sentence above. How do you personally know if you have the new birth? What did you personally do to get it?

Interesting.

Okay, thanks

Good questions. The answer to the second one is no. The first one I have to think on a bit. I'll start with Romans 10:8-13 and get back to you. 8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart (that is, the message of trust that we are proclaiming), 9 because if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, Whoever believes in him will not be put to shame. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call on him; 13 for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Checking Bible Hub just now, I'm seeing that each of the "will be saved" above is in the "future indicative passive." This really seems like something for the "Doctrine" thread. Should we go there?

What ever happened with the RICO charges?

This is why I've come to believe that GSC is so important and pray that more who are still in the cult will be lead to it. Whoops I did it again (quoted OldSkool twice) . I'll go back right now and look for the posts sent to me previously on how to fix this problem. P.S. I love the happy face option above. (I took this one to mean silly me).

So this cult is considered a 501-c3 corporation. therefore it doesn't have to pay taxes on the money that fear-controlled members give to it (many I'm sure with a grudging heart) because it uses the words God, Bible, Jesus Christ, etc. WOW, to me, that sounds like a big no-no .

I was going to give a reply but I've changed my mind. I have to go to that "testing or training" site someone mentioned earlier because I'm not sure what to do when this happens. I'll submit my reply, and try to see if I can delete it so it doesn't show up. Sorry - "learning curve" and all that

When someone switches the topic over to "Doctrine," are others involved in the discussion notified somehow?

Grease Spotters get cagey - no way! Who would have thought this was possible? lol

So f'ing true! I'm really ....$ed off right now.

I'm just stunned and so disheartened. You wrote, "I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps." vp didn't pull any punches with you guys. You got it full blast. Does anyone know if it was this bad earlier on in the 6th Corps? Fear seemed to be full tilt when it concerned breaking a commitment to twi, (even more so when a salt covenant was made). I left the ministry 3 times and only once did I "fall apart" because of fear - that was when I left the WOW field. So many things about the ministry have suddenly become clear from being on this website. I have never used the word "cult" in my postings - I've always said twi or the ministry. I've described it as cult-like I think once. Now I understand why I read the word "cult" so often in many of the posts, often with the "f-word" attached to it. It really is that bad!

What is "Irish Eyes Internet" on the "Donate" page?

But sanctification is not a reward - it's what we received from God when we were born again as stated in 1 Cor 1:30, "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" So if a Christian is still born again when he/she leaves TWI, then he/she would still be sanctified. And if he/she is still sanctified, then 1 Cor 7:14 would still apply. Right?

There has been so much great stuff to think about from today's posts but I must admit, I'm fading away (getting sleepy). Apparently I posted the above without a reply from me underneath. Well thanks to a couple of you, I knew how to edit it in order to add my two cents. Okay, I think I'm getting it - the title of each "administration" is man made and they are nowhere to be found in the Bible. So what's written in Revelations is simply what's going to happen in the future. It doesn't need the title of the "Revelation Administration." Likewise, the Gospels are about the life of Jesus and does not need to be called the "Christ Administration." If you stop referring to administrations, you can then get rid of all the man-made teaching that goes along with explaining them. If I've got this right, it's not a problem letting that doctrine go. I forgot to include it in the quote above, but I love your line about Jesus not keeping it all to himself when the end comes. Reminds me of Raffi's "Sharing Song" that my students liked to sing. It beings with "It's mine but you can have some, with you I'd like to share it..." only in the above case, Jesus would sing to God, "It's mine and you can't have none of it." Too funny.

So they're basically saying that if you leave, you are no longer a Christian and therefore you and your kids are no longer sanctified. Unbelievable!

I should be receiving the book "Undertow" by Charlene Edge any day now. After I've finished that I would like to read Love Wins. I will check on the thread you sent me. Thanks!

Now that you've asked, I think that if they're not old enough or if they're mentally unable to understand and confess Rom 10:9,10 and get born again thereby becoming a member in the body of Christ (as is the case with my grandson), there is no way God would punish them like those who will be in the resurrection of the unjust. So that only leaves going to heaven, either at the gathering together or with the resurrection of the just. I personally prefer at the gathering together but either way, they will be resurrected to life .

This is very interesting because verse 24 does say “then” as in ‘at that time’, and not before. Until Jesus hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, until he has abolished all rule and all authority and power, until he has put all his enemies under his feet including the last enemy, death, and until he has put all things in subjection under his feet, verse 25 says he must reign. Then the son himself will also be subjected to God, so that God may be all in all. So first he reigns and then at the end, he subjects himself to God. What is all involved in his reigning? Is it only accomplishing the 4 "untils" listed above? Is he working on the 4 "untils" during the Grace admin or does he begin only after he gathers the body of believers? TWI did teach that Jesus was not a king and did not have a kingdom during the Grace admin. During that time, he was our Lord and the head of the body of Christ. Were they accurate on this doctrine?