Charity

Sorry, this post is long but mostly because of the footnotes below (which can be ignored), but I am trying to be thorough and accurate. You wrote: I spotted the pattern after Twinky and Nathan's wrangle, so when Charity set me up for a third time I asked her if she was going to do the same wrangle, before I answered to her setup. My question sailed right over her head… My corrections Mike: · You did not ask me that question at all. You asked me, “Why do you ask, Charity?” in response to 1my reply to you on a different thread. · Your question did not sail right over my head. 2I answered it. · I did not set you up and my questions were not a setup – this idea was in your head - it was not in my heart. You would have realized this if you had read the 3beginning of my post. Instead you sent me a 4snarky response to it. You wrote: …and she immediately found my answer falling short. Then WHY do you go back and forth for pages about "intellectual" topics (e.g., the "go-cart" analogy) when the posters obviously find your answers “falling short.” I did get personal in my reply to your answers because the topic was about having a personal relationship with Christ, our Lord and Savior. I suggest you use the disclaimer "Do not reply!" in the future if you want to end a topic prematurely. 1I wrote, “It would be nice to hear you talk more about the "ever present Christ, spiritually within us." What does this mean to you? Other than being inside us, how do you fellowship with Christ throughout the day? 2I am interested in hearing about Christ in your life without any mention of the collaterals. 3Hi, my replies are in italics. I am asking Christ for guidance as I respond. Looking back on what you wrote Mike, I see a pattern of you saying and doing things that sound and look godly but without a sense of warmth, affection, comfort or friendliness in how you speak about Christ in your life. You will see what I mean when/if you read my replies. It makes me think about my relationships with others throughout my life. Except for my very best friend in childhood, I kept an emotional distance from others. Even though my mother took good care of me, I never experienced a close relationship with her (except at her death bed) because most of her true self was oppressed because of my father's treatment of her. My relationship with my father was a desperate need for his love and trying to please him enough so that he would stop drinking (i.e., codependent). Only my children could opened up my heart to feel, give and receive such warmth. I have no idea if this describes any part of your life, but if it does, I can honestly say that within the past few months from being on GSC, my relationship with God and Christ has begun to change from an intellectual knowledge of them to a personal one. 4How'd I do on that, not mentioning the collaterals, ma'am? I haven't gone back to read my post yet [the one I sent you], so I'm hearing TV game show music in my head as I prepare to go read it. If you were my English Comp. 101 professor, and considering the brevity of my requested essay, what grade would you give me? Try to keep that grade separate from the grade you'd give me as a Theology professor would, reading the same mini essay.

Were any facts given by vp to support this assertion that “Christian” is a derogatory term given by the persecutors. Because they talked about the “Christ in” stuff they were ridiculed with the name."? According to Acts 11:26, "and when he (Barnabas) had found him (Saul), he brought him to Antioch. And so it came to pass that for a whole year they met with the church and taught a great number of people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." The word "Christian" has been used respectfully for centuries as a name for those who love and follow Christ. So even if there was a grain of truth behind what vp said, he could easily have chosen to continue honoring the name instead. His real reason for doing what he did had nothing to do with the origin of the name. I believe his intent was to derogate the name himself for self-serving, cult-like purposes like the ones chockfull shared above.

Sounds very similar to the things Harvey Weinstein did and he's in jail now.

Okay, so both the Lord [God] used in Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 in the article refer to the Old Testament verse, Joel 2:32 - "And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." (NIV) The NASB Lexicon shows "LORD" as the word Yah·weh which is the proper name of the God of Israel. Here's the thing though - when you read the above 2 verses in the Bible, the context of each tells you that they are OT quotes. For Acts 2:21 - the context begins with Acts 2:16 which says, "But this is that which has been spoken through the prophet Joel." For Romans 12:13 - the contexts begins with Romans 10:11 which says, "For the Scripture says, Whoever believes in him will not be put to shame. The article, however, does not do this and that's why it drove me nuts. Sentence #1 refers to Romans 10:9 (NT) - "because if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved." BUT sentence #2 joins both the New Testament (NT) and OT together - "This salvation ( NT) is available through Jesus Christ (NT) to whoever calls on the name of the Lord our God (OT) and believes (NT)." I believe this is confusing, inaccurate and misleading - a big Sentence #3 then quotes Acts 2:21 but does not reveal it's an OT quote - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved." Whether these 3 sentences were intentional in order to mislead the reader, I don't know. All I do know, is that while it drove me nuts. only with the help of the website Twinky sent, as well as me looking at the Hebrew lexicon and going back and forth from the new and old testaments multiple times, was I able to figure it out. Some others, however, might have simply accepted sentences #2 and 3 as a NT truth without realizing it just so happened to leave Jesus out. Did I just make a mountain out a molehill? Maybe, but for me personally, I was not a happy camper when I first read it.

Thanks Twinky, I just saw your reply and am reading the website now.

Not to belabor the point, but I don't remember it being this blatant before I left twi in 1986. Did it or did it begin with lcm some time after the "fog years? I mean, they've added [God] after the word "Lord" in Acts 2:21! ("And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved.") A simple check on Bible Hub's interlinear site, not to mention every version out there, shows this to be wrong. Sorry, but I'm just in a state of unbelief, but I'll get over it - where's my hot chocolate?!!!

I just haven't seen this type of blatant deceit before but then again, I haven't read anything by twi in decades. So this Lord [God] isn't new for them?

What the heck? Never seen this before. I spied something in the article "Reconciliation is Available to Whosoever Believes" (pg. 8 twi's latest mag). When did the Lord become "the Lord [God] in twi? The author wrote, "This salvation is available through Jesus Christ to whoever calls on the name of the Lord our God and believes." Then he quotes Acts 2:21 as, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved." Soon after he quotes Romans 10:13 as, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved." Is this a recent fabrication from twi's new research team? Later on, the article says, "Ananias initially had some concerns about reaching out to Saul as he had heard of his terrible reconciliation. But God reassured Ananias, and he responded obediently to God. This is then immediately contradicted when Acts 9:17 is quoted correctly, "And Ananias went his way and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, has sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost [holy spirit].” God is not the author of confusion, so what the h*ll is this?

I admit I have never watched The Blues Brothers but that is an incredibly entertaining scene!

I don't know if I'm just mentally tired , but I can't wrap my head around the above at the moment. Comparing it, however, to the simplicity with which twi sneaks their erroneous doctrine into the article "Abraham and Sarah" (found on pg. 18 of their latest mag) is interesting. In a number of verses, they give the definition of "faith" (which is a noun) as meaning "believing" (which is a verb). Examples: regarding Abraham in Rom 4:19, the author writes, "And being not weak in faith [believing], he considered not..." In Hebrews 11:11, the articles says, "Through faith [manifestation of believing] also Sarah herself received strength..." (bold lettering is mine) It's so subtle that I didn't even catch it until I got near to the end of the article where the author concludes, "Abraham and Sarah established a legacy of believing that continues to this day - both their names are recorded in Hebrew, chapter 11, which has been referred to 'The Believers' Hall of Fame.' You and I continue that legacy in our time as the children of Abraham by believing." (underlining is mine) Faith (or trust), as a noun, is something we have and our faith is in God who is faithful (reliable). Believing, however, is an action that focuses on us and according to twi's law of believing, it is what we must do in order to receive the promises of God. So twi's doctrinal error about "pistis" continues to pollute people's minds as in the old days.

Thank you OldSkool.

I agree wholeheartedly. Way to go Christ and OldSkool .

I think you are very uncomfortable with reading my post because you are very uncomfortable with intimacy even when that intimacy is with the one who suffered and died personally for you, the one who understands all the crap we hide ourselves in. This deep discomfort is because of fear Mike - it is what I lived so much in throughout my entire life - before, during and after twi. It took Christ a long time to be able to reach him, but praise God he has.

Even after I say there's no point in discussing things with Mike, I still feel the desire or need to shine some light and truth on what he says - not so much for him because he doesn't want to see it, but for others, especially new people, who read his posts. On my walk outside just now, I talked to Christ about all those still blinded by twi, those who are hurting in twi, those who have left twi but are still hurting and those who, like me, are beginning to heal or like others who are continuing to heal years after leaving twi. GSC is one way Christ can lead people into the way, and the truth and the life which is to himself.

Then again, Jesus might have done something like a Matthew 21:12-13 if he saw this. 12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

50 years ago, I would have eagerly bought into this and scooped me up one of those d*mn bronze desks. Now, I would put a wooden plaque next to it which said "Jesus wept." It' just all so sad when you compare what twi offers to the reality of Christianity being relationship based - not to a man or his books - but with God our Father and Christ our Lord.

Thanks WordWolf. This is so insane I've got to think there's a miniscule chance he was playing with us. If not, it does give me reason to worry big time about him.

Thank you for that bit of info . I had never heard of this idea before so I searched the word "orange". The orange book shows up a lot in "Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 Years!" thread. Very interesting - I'll catch up on the posts I've missed later today. It looks like I'll need a nice mug of hot chocolate for some comfort though.

Yeah, you got me. Just some rhetorical questions to bring things back to Christ and our relationship with him.

Hi OldSkool, I need to clarify something. When I said, "The sentences I highlighted in black makes me wonder for Christians who grew up spiritually under this paradigm and believed in it for many years, just how challenging it is to get out from under such a burdensome mantle of responsibility placed on to us through twi," I wasn't talking about physically growing up in the ministry. Sorry, my bad. I was referring to Christians whose walk in Chris began with their involvement in twi - when they learned early on that their relationship with God was all wrapped up in the law of believing in order to receive anything from Him. Regardless, may Christ lead all of us who have left twi into a relationship with the Father that is based on love. Jeremiah 31:13

It would be nice to hear you talk more about the "ever present Christ, spiritually with in us." What does this mean to you? Other than being inside us, how do you fellowship with Christ throughout the day?

I hope a loving 2-way relationship with Christ as our Lord is one of them.

One last thing Mike - where is Christ in all of this?

Regarding your last paragraph (which I find to be very powerful), I've noticed you often write about a personal relationship between us and God and Christ, with Godly love being the bond that holds it all together. The sentences I highlighted in black makes me wonder for Christians who grew up spiritually under this paradigm and believed in it for many years, just how challenging it is to get out from under such a burdensome mantle of responsibility placed on to us through twi. On a different thread, T-Bone shared this from the article, "What Does It Mean To 'Change The Narrative'? - Step By Step Parents" - "Basically, what this means is that our FEAR can be directly linked to our first introduction and mental images of the narrative we’ve been conditioned to believe as true." He also wrote personally, "To escape the mental prison of a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult like The Way International, I had to take it upon myself to change the narrative..." Twinky wrote about how a loving, community-based church helped her after she left twi. A lot of other helpful advice has been given by posters on GSC. I see though how necessary it is to keep the goal always in our sight as we work our way out of the past spiritual emptiness, and that goal is the true nature of Christianity as highlighted in red above. For me, this goal will be the wind beneath my wings. Thanks everyone