Charity

A huge Amen to that children. Little baby (amen) in the manger (amen) king Jesus (amen amen amen) At the temple (amen) there they found him (amen) Teachin' the elders (amen amen amen amen) Poor Lazerus (amen) didn't bear it (amen) up a walkin' (amen amen amen) Yeah amen amen amen amen amen amen Lord Jesus (amen) up in heaven (amen) who'll be returnin' (amen amen amen) Amen amen amen amen amen amen Shout it children (amen) let me hear you (amen) hallelujah (amen amen amen) Sing it children (amen) sing amen (amen) amen one more time amen amen amen

Nice try Mike, but there have been so many posts since November of last year when I came to GSC that have explained such things to you. I only reply to your posts to brighten up the darkness you bring with your obvious animosity towards Christ.

What others do should not be your basis for truth (so don't point them out as if they are going to prove anything). The Scriptures are Mike and you have been shown many which you ignore and/or minimize because they don't agree with vp.

Mike, the following verses are to prove how wrong you are in your statements which I've marked in red above. First, look at John 13:13. John 13:13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. They are all in the book of Acts except for the first one which concerns Paul's prayer to Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 12:7b Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Acts 1: 23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen Acts 6:5b They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them. Acts 7: 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed (called upon), “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” These 2 verses show how Stephen’s prayer expresses a communion with the Lord that neither hatred nor stones nor the imminence of death can interrupt. Acts 8:15,17 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off. I stopped here but there are more and I think you get the message since they are all from Scripture. The rest of your post is what you think.

Of course Jesus prayed to the Father - he wasn't going to pray to himself! Have you ever noticed the context of Jesus’ prayer to God? It was one example out of three where Jesus is teaching the difference between people doing righteous acts so they can be seen of men to get their praise and doing them in secret BEFORE THE FATHER who will reward them in heaven. 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. “This, then, is how you should pray: “’Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, The context is the correct way of doing righteous acts before the Father. You cannot use the Lord's prayer to prove what can and cannot be done in our relationship with his son and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mike, It was God's plan to use the example of a body to show Christ's relationship with us - Christ is the head and you are a member. Why did God do this? What did He want to teach us about Christ? Question: When your hand accidentally touches a hot flying pan, why do you jerk your hand away? Answer: When we feel pain, such as when we touch a hot stove, sensory receptors in our skin send a message via nerve fibers (A-delta fibers and C fibers) to the spinal cord and brain stem and then onto the brain where the sensation of pain is registered, the information is processed and the pain is perceived. Once the brain has received and interpreted the pain message, it coordinates an appropriate response. The brain can send a signal back to the spinal cord and nerves to increase or decrease the severity of pain. For example, the brain can signal the release of natural painkillers known as endorphins. It's how a body works! https://mydr.com.au/pain/pain-and-how-you-sense-it/ https://www.nva.org/learnpatient/how-we-feel-pain/

I may be stating the obvious here but since Mike is sharing this article to teach us all what Christ is doing up there in the heavenlies, I want to point out the following: In the sentence above, the article is trying to tie our reconciling the world to God through Christ with Christ reconciling us every time we need it. The author may be using verse 20 to support this idea but since the idea is wrong, it doesn’t need any verse to support it. Christ is not reconciling us back to God every time we need it because we have been reconciled to God through Christ once and for all when we were saved. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in (union with Christ), the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: (which is) 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. Looking at verses 17-18, Paul is talking about the believers having the new creation and having been reconciled by God to himself. So the end of verse 20 cannot be addressing Christians. “We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God” is the appeal God wants the world to hear and accept through us as Christ’s ambassadors. This appeal also includes the truth in verse 21. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Easy as falling off a log .

This is all knowledge that's been taught for decades. It's good knowledge, but having 2-way communications between the Head (Christ) and his members (us) as a human body does and the book of Acts reveals, is not included. I guess it's not one of the things Jesus Christ is doing up there.

To those interested, here is a website https://thewaymagazine.com/the-daysman/ showing an article about the daysman posted on May 27, 2020 by the Way. At the bottom of the article, it says ,"This is a reprint from the March/April 2009 issue of The Way Magazine." It's very similar to the article Mike posted including the Job and 1 Timothy verses but adds a couple extra verses as well. This one however gives credit to how Bishop Pillai explains the daysman in his book, "Light through an Eastern Window" where the other one didn't.

Just a couple more thoughts about this article. 1. IMO, the banquet analogy in the first two paragraphs, though overplayed, made some good points about the accomplishments Jesus. 2. The third paragraph makes the statement about the great mystery, “It is this course that you and I partake of today — a completely new food made available by the ascension and exalted position of our advocate and mediator, Jesus Christ.” This seems to tie in with the “Old Testament and Gospels are for our learning but the Epistles are written to us” doctrine.

Hi Raf, I read the answer OldSkool gave later on in this thread to your question in the above post. When I went back to check my post to you on page 77, I saw I had omitted this question in my list of things you had said about the Bible. Your question was very much on topic and I should have included it in the list. This was not fair of me to have done this and I apologize.

When referring to 1 John 2:1-2, the article says, "The office that the ascended Christ fulfills in this case is again dealing with forgiveness and reconciliation of the sinner and God similar to that of the daysman." However, there is no mention of reconciliation in this verse. We were reconciled to God when we were born again. This verse is about Jesus Christ being our advocate for the sins believers commit after being reconciled to God. The article also says, "Jesus Christ not only brings the sinner and God back together in a tender, loving, heart manner; but this reconciliation is legally sound." This sentence implies that the “tender, loving” relationship between sinner and God broke off because of the sin and that Jesus Christ, our advocate, was able to bring it back to us. Yet Romans 8:35-37 says that nothing will separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. It is the believer who sins who is being brought back to God and his never-ending love through our advocate Jesus Christ. The differences are subtle but I feel they leave the wrong image in our minds concerning our relationship with God. Verse 9 of this same chapter also adds, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”

The whole part of the article beginning with 1 Timothy 2:5 is inaccurate. You cannot relate both the daysman analogy and this verse to a believer breaking fellowship with God. First, 1 Timothy 2:5 is quoted. Next, the title of this part of the article is “He is Our Mediator.” Then comes the analogy of the daysman. Immediately after ending this analogy, the next sentence connects it to our relationship with God by using the word “this.” Quote: “This is tremendously revealing when applied to Jesus Christ, as he can personally relate to every situation that would cause a believer to break fellowship with God.” A few sentences later as well as in the last paragraph, it reverts back to “man” and men” which was included in the 1 Timothy verse. Quote: That is why calling Jesus Christ a daysman, a mediator, between sinful man and God is so meaningful. Quote: “This relationship of daysman emphasizes the tenderness, the concern and the love involved between God, Jesus Christ and men.” Note: Men - not the believer is the context of 1 Timothy 2:5 is below. 1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. I believe that the truth of this verse (which appears at the beginning of this piece of the article) is being used out of context to support the inaccurate teaching that Jesus Christ is our mediator. He is our Lord and Savior and our Redeemer.

This last paragraph looks promising. No way to know how it will be explained until the next installment is revealed. Fingers crossed.

On top of the time vp actually spent on doing all of the above is the time he spent thinking about them before, during and after - his persistent cravings and lustful desires, his devious and cunning planning, his sick anticipation, his self-proclaimed conquests, etc. Someone who commits so many abhorrent acts for so long without repentance has spent a huge amount of his mental energy dwelling in darkness. As a narcissist, his need to be the center of attraction and to feel superior had to be forefront in his mind. It's hard to think that his new man ever saw the light of day.

You are right about “return” and “second coming” not being in scripture although Heb 9:28 comes close when it says “[Christ] will appear a second time." The reason I asked for a Bible verse for the “absent Christ” is because of the context of my post. It’s on page 77. I had listed the ways in which you talked about the Bible in your recent posts, so at the end I asked, within that context, if this particular phrase was in the Bible. I’ll have to learn how to list posts one under each other and then write a reply to them. I should have included your post about authority in there as well.

Page 70, on Feb 2. "We all agree that Christ is, in some way, absent. In what ways? Well, physical presence, but it would be silly to think that is all. He is also absent in his authority. If you and I have a dispute in that we think he means, we cannot go to him to resolve the dispute. So how do we resolve it? By spirit? Sure, except my spirit tells me I'm right and your spirit tells you that you're right, so how is the third person, who is neither you nor I, able to ascertain who is correctly interpreting the will of God in Christ? Easy. The Word takes the place of the absent Christ. (I hope I haven't misread anything.)

Raf, one way that has been discussed about Christ remaining present is concerning the relationship and fellowship we have with him since he is the head of the body to which we belong. So when one considers how messages are sent back and forth between the brain and the parts of the human body in order to function, it makes sense to me that there is also a necessary 2-way communication going on between Christ and the members of his body. The whole area of Christ communicating personally with believers by way of the holy spirit is new to me but I know from the book of Acts that he does do this. OldSkool lays this out clearly from scripture on page 70 of this thread. I simply want to learn more about how it works so I can apply it in my personal walk with Christ. I am in no position to judge what others are saying Christ told them to do, say or believe. The only exception to this seems to be if it contradicts what the Bible says, but then how useful is this if there is no consensus on what the Bible actually says. (I did read about how personal prophecies given to specific individuals in CES were harmful. Obviously, in hindsight that was a big and those involved can choose to learn from it or not.) I do not know how Christ is dealing with all the division within his body, but I do know it is our responsibility to obey 2 Timothy 2:15, “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.” NASB Will there ever be complete unity in the body of Christ about what the Bible teaches? No, not as long as Satan is still the god of this world. So in the meantime, the discussions on GSC about what one thinks or believes regarding a topic go on, and they will continue to be proven helpful to others.

Raf, You have questioned both Jesus Christ’s authority (Quote: He is also absent in his authority.) and his present lordship (Quote: Jesus IS present in his lordship, directing the affairs of the church in Acts. But what about NOW?) I say that just because we can’t go to him in person to resolve a dispute or because two churches disagree on a point of doctrine does not mean Jesus’ authority is absent or puts in doubt His lordship NOW. This is not just my opinion, it is what the Bible says. You spoke of the Bible in the following ways: · Seriously. The scriptures teach what they teach, whether I accept it as gospel or reject it as fantasy. · I believe the Bible teaches what it teaches. · I think one can look at the Bible fairly and come to a conclusion about what it teaches, even without believing it. · It's only the Word that can resolve disputes · Someone has to be wrong! Who judges? It has to be something outside the populace. The Word? Hypothetically, yeah. · If it serves no other purpose shouldn't the Bible define Christianity? So what does the Bible teach about the Lordship of Jesus Christ? Every Epistle Paul wrote to the church has the same salutation of “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” except for two where Paul switches things up a bit. Colossians 1:2 “We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” and 1 Thess 1:1 “To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.” Jesus is as much Lord now as he was in the book of Acts. The word “Lord” means master and a master has authority which is what the Bible teaches. Ephesians 1:20-23 …he (God) raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. The head controls the body whether it’s a human body or the body of Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of his body NOW. The word “Lord” also means a person exercising absolute ownership rights which is what the Bible teaches. Romans 14:8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Jesus Christ is Lord. It’s decided. It’s settled. There is no doubt about it no matter how many disputes and disagreements there are among believers and among churches? Do you a scripture that says Christ is absent or that the Bible takes the place of the absent Christ?

First of all, thanks T-Bone for your reply - it provides a lot of food for thought. I like how you pointed out from scripture the theme that we are on a journey. As you mentioned, It’s great to have the freedom to choose your own destination and also to have the “HOW to” directions to keep us out of the ruts. There's so much you can glean from this analogy. I’ll have to keep an eye out for more verses like these. The thing that stood out the most to me in Ephesians 3 is what did Paul mean when he wrote that God will strengthen and empower our minds through His spirit. I think about the kind of mind Paul must have had to not only endure all the persecution but also to carry out the incredible ministry God gave to him. Here and in Eph 1:17-19, Paul is praying for God to give this power, strength, wisdom, understanding etc. to the believers, so I wonder where prayer fits in with all this. It's a lot to get into especially when vp basically boils it all down to applying the great principle. All I know is that my mind can use some strengthening from God so it looks like this is my chosen journey for now. Eph 3:16–19 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power(enough strength), together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. (NIV)

There is another version of "Sow a..." which adds an extra line. “Watch your thoughts, they become your words; watch your words, they become your actions; watch your actions, they become your habits; watch your habits, they become your character; watch your character, it becomes your destiny.” ― supposedly by Lao Tzu

Kayne West makes my point for me - dancing is a lot cooler without a toothy grin on your face.

I'll see your 2 cents and raise you 2 more. wierwille: Eph 4:17-19 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed. __________________________________ Eph 3:16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Paul writes in vs. 16, “in your inner being” which refers to our minds. Our minds are where God strengthens us with His power through his holy spirit. In vs. 17, it says God’s reason for strengthening our minds is so that Christ may dwell in our minds (our “hearts”) through faith. What I remember about "the renewed mind" was that it meant putting the word in our minds. Do you think Paul's prayer in these 2 verses ups the ante to say there's more to it? Like, it's just not what we do but how He then adds to it. Here's another verse. Eph 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart (mind) may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Oops - I obviously wasn't paying attention. I watched 20 seconds of the second video and saw it was the same dreaded song with different dancers. Without checking the titles, I ignored the other three because the same creepy dude was front and center. Anyway, I realized my mistake after reading OldSkool's post. Poker Face has the best music - even made the dancing a bit more tolerable.

Yeah, that kind of makes me run out the door and never want to hear those words again. Not the strength and power I was picturing in my mind.