Charity

The following is the third and fourth verses used in the article “Spiritual Athletes for God: Philippians 3:13,14: Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” Once again, I do not read that Paul is calling himself an athlete of the Spirit. I see him pressing toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. The NIV says, “I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” You get to decide from the context which is more accurate. Here are some of the verses from chapter 3 – reading the whole chapter is even more enlightening. Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! (vs 1) For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—(vs 3) What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ (vs 8) 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. 15All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body (vs 20,21)

The following is the second verse used in the article “Spiritual Athletes for God: ”Philippians 2:16: Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. Again, I don’t read in this verse that Paul is calling himself an athlete of the Spirit. He speaks of not running or labouring in vain. Here are a few snippets from the whole chapter on Paul’s instructions to the believers and information about their relationships with one another. (NIV): then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. (vs 2) In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: (vs 5) Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (vs 9) and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (vs 11) continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. (vs 12b,13) as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain. (vs 16) But I think it is necessary to send back to you Epaphroditus, For he longs for all of you and is distressed because you heard he was ill. Therefore I am all the more eager to send him, so that when you see him again you may be glad and I may have less anxiety. (25a,26,28)

The following is the first verse used in the article “Spiritual Athletes for God:” “I Corinthians 9:24: Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. I don’t read in this verse that Paul is calling the believers athletes of the Spirit. I see him comparing believers to someone who runs in a race in that we both run and we both run with a goal of obtaining a prize. In my opinion, I think it’s best to read the whole chapter on how Paul conducts himself as an apostle and see what you learn from it yourself. However, here are a few snippets: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. (vs. 2) Have we not power to eat and to drink? (vs 4) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. (vs 14,15) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. (vs 17,18) I am made all things to all men that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. (vs 22,23) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (This is explained in chapter 10.) (vs 24-27)

Your post got me to go back and read the article again. I'll share more tomorrow but I learned more about the five verses in this article by going back and reading them in their context - a lot more than looking at Greek words used to bolster twi's doctrine of us being athletes of the spirit. Whether it has to do with my time in twi or not, my habit has never been to just read the Word without looking up the meaning of every third of fourth word on Bible Hub. After reading OldSkool's posts about just reading what's written in scripture, I'm beginning to see the benefits of doing this because it keeps the flow of God's word moving - like what you call "a gentle reading." It's easier this way to hear what the Spirit wants to teach me. Now when I want a better understanding of a verse or passage, I'll read it over a few more times, instead of immediately racing off to see what a commentary or website has to say and it's been pretty cool. I'm not saying it's wrong to have a desire to study scripture. I'm saying that I needed to balance this with simply reading the scriptures for the joy of it and for what God wants me to see and learn from them.

So, lcm added more wrong teaching to what vp had already taught incorrectly?

Godly sorry might be something to consider as well. Paul spoke about the godly sorrow the believers of the Corinthian church had after receiving Paul's first letter to them. Sorrow means to experience deep, emotional pain (sadness), i.e. severe sorrow (grief) which is probably why verse 10 says there's a worldly sorrow that produces death. 2 Cor 7:11 lists how much good came out of their godly sorrow: diligence/earnestness; clearing of yourselves (an apology); indignation/anger; fear/alarm; vehement desire/longing; zeal/concern and revenge/readiness to see justice done. Paul then says, "In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter." It's important to note that the word "guilt" is not used.

In 2 Tim 2:3-6, Paul uses 3 metaphors back to back – 1) a good soldier of Jesus Christ, 2) a man who strives is crowned only if he strives lawfully (athletic metaphor) and 3) a husbandman that laboureth. What’s interesting is what he uses each metaphor to teach in the following verses. 1) When talking about the armour of God in Ephesians 6, Paul uses this metaphor to explain how we are to “stand against the wiles of the devil” and “having done all, to stand.” 2) When Paul uses the metaphor of running in a race, the article points out that the context is receiving rewards at the Bema. · 1 Cor 9:24 - but one receiveth the prize and verse 25 - Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible · Phil 2:16 - that I may rejoice in the day of Christ · Phil 3:13,14 - I press toward the mark for the prize 3) Paul writes about “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.” Why Paul used these particular metaphors to teach these particular truths is something to consider.

Hi Twinky, When OldSkool began this thread, he was referring to the article which used the phrase, "we are spiritual athletes" in the first and last sentences. Your reply was right on with the topic and interesting to read. Now I may be misreading the meaning of your last statement but I think it extended the topic to include the awful AoS production. (I found it interesting that this article did not cover the Ephesians 6 verses about the armour of God probably because it would have dragged the article on for too long or maybe the current twi wants everyone to simply forget vp's inaccurate interpretation of it. Who knows?) Anyway, Mike shortly afterwards brought vp into the discussion and said something I'm not sure is true. He wrote: At that time he reported that well before AOS got into production, circa 1984, VPW went to Emporia and was bringing up questions as to the validity of the athletes metaphor. (Not the production, but the metaphor itself - then Mike went on to talk about vp's concerns about the production. So my question now is did anyone hear that this was the case - that vp was doubting his interpretation of the armour of God? If so, then I think it would be important that GSC readers get to read about it.

Hi MarieP and Annio and thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and hearts, I was never in the corps but was in twi for 12 years. During that time I went wow (1974-1975), took the advanced class and led both adult and children fellowships. I too taught the law of believing and the great principle about how we operate the spirit of God. I spoke of what Jesus accomplished for us but failed to speak of the joy and power that having an actual relationship with Christ brings (because I didn't even know about it myself). My greatest regret is for all the hurting people I talked with and my main answer to their pain was to take pfal. I did not love them with the love of God. I’d faithfully share John 10:10 with them but not Luke 4:18 where Jesus defines the abundant life he came to give to people. I had more faith in a class than I had in the spirit of God working in me to minister to someone’s needs. I've confessed to God of how sad and feeble of a Christian I was to them. I think it speaks of your relationship with God, Annio, that you were able to show compassion for the abusers and forgive them. I wonder though, why it is often harder for us to accept God’s forgiveness for ourselves? Understanding the role I played in what went on around me in twi and sorting through my feelings about the role leadership played in messing things up spiritually is important to do. But when I consciously or subconsciously added into this mix past traumas and insecurities I had before I even knew of twi, figuring things out became more complicated and confusing. One last thing, if at times who I thought I was and what I thought I had while in twi was based on following man made doctrine and not the truth of God’s Word, realizing the worthlessness of it all was a hard pill to swallow. So was the realization that the “issues” from my past which I thought were gone had really only been covered over because a cult like twi cannot bring deliverance nor healing. It’s all been a lot to deal with but for me the answer has been to go back to Luke 4:18 and get to know Christ personally so he can be the one to teach me and heal my broken heart and deliver me from captivity and open my eyes to the truth and set me at liberty from my shattered life. This is the process that Christ wants to continue working on with me and it has been the most effective and rewarding. Being on GSC was where it all started for me. I hope you both will continue to post as well.

T-bone - an awesome example of God's power. Mike should forget about budgets and doors and spend some time reading the Psalms of David and see his praises for God during the good times and the bad. This was the man who stood up to Goliath as a boy, survived all of Saul's attempts to kill him and never lost a battle. Even though in the Psalms David often cried out to God in his distress (who wouldn't blame him), he also gave praise and glory to God in whom he always trusted to give him the victory. God is so much greater than the devil!

What did he think - that all the moms were following the Scout motto "Be prepared?" Like they never knew when a batch of cookies might be needed. Sadly, it's just another painful image only this time about the rod of correction debacle.

What a graphic and eye opening metaphor about the law of believing debacle OldSkool. Nicely done !

When I was a teacher of first grade students (6-7 years old), our school board supplied resources so that we could teach resilience, having a growth mindset and later on even mindfulness to the kids. The important part was helping them to apply this knowledge throughout the day when problems or challenges occurred both inside and outside the classroom. The goal was that if this was reinforced each year as the kids grew older, it would stick with them after they graduated. A lot of students at the first school where I taught came from pretty rough backgrounds so I think it was a godsend.

I really appreciate the scriptures that you shared T-Bone, especially in Ezekiel. Thanks.

Hi Twinky, Question: What did you mean in your post? There's no end to those willing to abuse - and to be abused.

How Not to Deal with Mike Note to self: Don't get on the hamster wheel. Note to self: Okay, I got on it again but at least this time my head didn't feel like it was going to explode. All right, I won't get on the hamster wheel again. Note to self: Okay, okay, I got on it again but only because he must stop working so hard on his believing to get it to become real believing. Man, it's like he's carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders . I was just trying to help. All right, I won't get on the hamster wheel again. Note to self: Destroy the da@mn hamster wheel! So the next time I'm tempted to spend an hour of my time typing out a reply, I'll climb through some twisty tunnels, eat some hamster pellets and sleep in my nice red hide away instead. Moral of story: When Mike starts out by saying he wants feedback about some wacko theory of his which you know he's not going to accept but instead push vp and pfal - put on the headphones and blast away with Don't be Fooled Again !

Mike, you wrote a long post for others to think about so I hope you're willing to actually read the replies. The above bold font used on what you wrote is my doing.

When comparing what OldSkool, Skyrider and Chockfull shared to how Mike is endeavoring to understand the scarcity of miracles, the difference between the two is striking. How does his one hunch “that we grads have not yet really graduated to that level yet” fit in with what they experienced? When referring to the universal scarcity of miracles (according to him), how does his “very odd idea that God has limited Himself to a “budget” on miracles SO THAT the devil can be limited to the same a budget on producing lying signs, miracles, and wonders” fit in? I know Mike is putting it out on GSC for us to consider and I will go back to read his explanation of Daniel 10, but you can see how complicated his thinking is on this topic of miracles. I wonder if he did hear a miraculous voice telling him to do something, how applying such a complicated formula would delay his actions resulting in possible harm coming to him.

Your personal relationship with God right after becoming His child makes me curious as to who ministered the Word to you at the time. This bonding between you and God seems to have been pure, uncontaminated by man-made traditions or rules. Your acceptance of Christ came without “need-to-do next steps” and the subsequent guilt and conditional feelings of love to burden you. What a breath of fresh air to see you experience this. Also, the wonder of your trust in God that when He spoke to you, you immediately obeyed his voice (which in turn saved your life) is so precious. How things must have changed when you took on the heavy yoke of twi. And now to see that you have regained your relationship with a loving and passionate Father who cares for you, his child, is very inspiring.

Hi OldSkool, https://thewayinternational.com/operating-the-gift-of-holy-spirit/ According to the above website, Twi teaches that "the nine manifestations of holy spirit operate under a "basic" principle and this "great" principle, according to them, operates in this manner, "God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act or as you speak out." (Underlining is mine.) Their "great principle" is not only inaccurate and harmful, it is full of pride as you spoke about in your post. According to James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5, the opposite of God resisting the proud is that God gives grace to the humble and being humble is to accept that God's miracles are according to His ways and purposes. Mary did not pray or believe for a miracle that she would become pregnant with a son who according to Luke 1:32,33 "32 ...shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." But God had a purpose in mind and knew Mary was humble as stated in verse 38 "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." God knows our hearts and just as with Mary and OldSkool's dog Bella, some miracles are God acting in power to fulfill His purposes without any human interaction. In other words, there was a purpose for both these miracles and that's why God did them. Awesome sharing OldSkool!

Thank you Rocky. As to what you said about my feeling safe enough to be personal on GSC, this has been true since the first time I posted on the Absent Christ thread. It was and still is the understanding and empathy shown by many of the posters that has helped me to open my heart to what I dealt with in twi and to all Christ has been doing in me since being on GSC. What you wrote about emotional inheritance is intriguing. I can see how it most likely contributed to my desire to be part of twi when I was 18. I’m wondering as well how this inheritance is playing out in my life now. I’ve just placed a hold on Atlas’ book at the library – I’m fourth in line. Thanks for mentioning it. It is noteworthy to me how you continue to learn so much from the books you've shared on GSC as part of your own working through things that are on your heart and mind. You are a man on a journey . (Use the space bar before the yellow dude and you can make him walk .)

I can see that what you said about "TWI-mindset desires to control the power of God" was quite evident in Mike's initial post on this thread. I remember when I got back home after taking the advanced class, I immediately heard of a gentleman in our fellowship who had just passed away. I literally was all set to go and raise him from the dead but my wow coordinator from a few years back was with me and stopped me. I can't remember what her reason for doing so was. But that was my first thought of what to do. I'm not saying now that the ac put that idea in my head because I have since forgotten what was taught in it but it does reflect that mindset of controlling the power of God. I imagine the frustration and disappointment you described -"So I was up…then down…up…then down…up…then down" might also have been due to the hype and dubious teaching of the law of believing. When it comes to the healing of my 8-year-old grandson with non-verbal autism, I see it now as a walk with God to understand his ways and purposes and trusting his eternal love and goodness that whether in this life or when Christ returns, he will be healed.

I can see how for EVERYONE, God healing George of the congenital limb defect in his one arm would be a spectacular miracle - I would have as well. But I think that the expectation by everyone that God would do it at that specific part in pfal speaks of a misunderstanding of what a miracle is. A miracle is according to God's plan and purposes - not according to ours. Where was George's prayer in all of this? By your own words as outlined in red above, George HAD it! The desire for this miracle was obviously in the minds of everyone else, but was it in George's? Did the believers talk to him as if he needed this miracle to live a more than abundant life? Another thing is that there was no mention in your story, especially in the green high-lighted part, about giving any glory to God should such a miracle had happened. I'm pretty sure there would be many who would have given the glory to vp and pfal. I believe there is a lot of unlearning about miracles and healings that need to be done.

You are so right OldSkool – thank you for pointing this out. The deliverance you experienced in your life is a testament to miracles happening in this day and time. Mike’s opening post on this thread said, “We did not see any such spectacular miracles. Maybe there were some, but word seemed to not get around much about them if they did happen.” (Previously, he was referring to a miracle that never happened [as far as he knew] to George who had a congenital limb defect in one arm.) T-Bone wrote in the post before yours, “By leadership and groupthink I was prodded…motivated to crave power…but all the hype of the ministry classes and their dubious content left me frustrated and disappointed.” (I will reply to Mike’s and T-Bone’s posts to share my thoughts directly with them.) ______________ I've now realized that I had narrowed my definition of a miracle to the ones physically seen throughout the Bible, but the following websites define a miracle as such: “A miracle is an event that is inexplicable by natural or scientific laws and accordingly gets attributed to some supernatural or praeternatural cause.” Wikipedia "an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs" https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › mira... "an unusual and mysterious event that is thought to have been caused by a god because it does not follow the usual laws of nature" https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › miracle “an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.” https://www.dictionary.com › browse › miracle ______________ What happened to Saul on the road to Damascus – the bright light, his conversation with Jesus and his sudden blindness - was a “spectacular” miracle witnessed by the men who travelled with him. But I think just as miraculous was what Paul said in Galatians 1 concerning this event, “ 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen.” How did God accomplish this other than the work of the holy spirit in Paul’s life? Every time someone gets born again, it’s a miracle. Is not every time God works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Phil 2:13) a miracle according to these definitions? Maybe if we recognize these extraordinary internal events also as miracles which happen every day in believer's lives, then we won’t find such outwardly signs of miracles as recorded in the Bible so far-fetched or outside our reach.

I want to emphasize that I do not believe the word "believe" in verse 19 has anything whatsoever to do with the law of believing. The word "believes" means to trust and the one we are to trust is God. T-Bone had written earlier on this thread, "what I acknowledge is that God is all-powerful, and that He is limited only by His own designs and purposes – and we should not assume we know all about His designs and purposes." I agree with T-Bone. The manifestation of faith needed to do miracles and healings is dependent upon receiving revelation from God and this revelation is dependent upon God's plans and purposes. This revelation from God could be what Paul is praying for when he says in Eph 1:17 "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" What Paul is praying for must be God's will which means God wants us to desire these things which will glorify Him. The fact that it all seems just out of my reach makes me wonder why that is. Sorry, I know I'm getting a bit personal here but it is what it is.