Charity

I was thinking of this a couple of days ago when I realized how in the past 2 weeks, quite a few good things had happened. After the latest change to my grandson’s meds by his neurologist, his seizures have become less severe and not as frequent so he was able to return to school part time. Because of his principal’s advocacy, the school board had approved one-to-one support for him. This is a very difficult thing to get. After graduating from college a year ago and many of his job applications being rejected (as well as a few unsuccessful interviews), my oldest grandson who lives with us got a full-time entry job in his field. I finally received a replacement for a medical device I need that was recalled two years ago due to a risk of causing liver damage. As a Christian, I would have believed and been thankful that all these blessings were from God. Since deconverting, I'm now simply thankful for the good things life brings our way, sometimes with the help of other people. And when I learned a couple of days ago I owed over $600.00 in income tax because something I thought I had corrected online apparently didn't go through, once I calmed down, I let it go as .... simply happens in life as well. The point is that it was great not having to concern myself with whether a god was or wasn't looking out for me based on whether I was or wasn't trusting enough in him.

Early blood testing showed my grandson was born with a rare gene deletion which caused him to require life-saving surgery when he was a day old and two subsequent major surgeries to completely correct a physical abnormality. We were told that as he grew older, autism may also be a possibility because of this deletion. Fundamentalist beliefs can cause people to refuse medical intervention for themselves or their children because it meant doubting god's ability to heal. I knew the physical reasons for my grandson's health issues but still fell a few times for the doctrine that certain illnesses can be caused by devil spirits. Not anymore now.

Hi Rocky, I've been thinking a lot about this line you wrote. At first, it seemed as if you misinterpreted what I had said because I've always had great compassion for my grandson's health challenges. But apart from this assumption about you, there was still something really bothering me, and so I googled "is there fear in compassion" and the website below came up. In it, compassion was defined as having two parts: "Sensitivity to the causes of suffering in one’s self and others” (Part A), combined with the “commitment to try to alleviate and prevent it” (Part B)." It also said: "However, when there are FBRs (Fears, Blocks & Resistances) regarding giving Compassion to Others, this is often due to fears such as: “I will lose something” / “Others will take advantage of me” / “I cannot tolerate others’ distress”. And this was exactly the thing that was bothering me. During those times when I thought my grandson might have had a devil spirit, it was very frightening because I didn't "belieeeve" I could cast one out and in that sense, I could not tolerate (handle, help with) his distress. And that's when, I realize now, that although I was with him physically, mentally I was on some fricking Luciferian planet far removed from the earthly reality that a sudden electric surge had disrupted neurons in his brain causing him to have a seizure. With that kind of delusional mindset, I wasn't as effective with the second part of being compassionate as I could have been. It is very distressing to admit this, but it's important because it's one way that the bible, which teaches there are devil spirits, is harmful. I'm learning that there are many other biblical teachings that cause harm mentally and emotionally. It isn't just the way twi taught "the word," it was parts of the bible itself. I'm reading a good book right now titled "The God argument : the case against religion and for humanism" by A.C. Grayling. One last thing, I want to share about the joy that my grandson has brought to my life. His way of being is unique to him and I have come to value every part of him - his way of finding pleasure in certain things, his desire to interact with us, his growth and development, how he loves to have his long hair brushed when he used to hate it. There is so much more I could share, but most of all, I love his smiles. The other day he was laughing with his mouth closed which I think was a new experience for him by the look on his face. You could tell he was enjoying doing it and the longer he did it, the more my husband and I began to laugh out loud with him. He actually had us in stitches before he was finished. https://mi-psych.com.au/fears-of-compassion/

You're not alone WordWolf - chockfull mentioned it a few days ago and penworks also brought it up recently. And you're right - a genuine update on DLM is what I thought I'd find when I opened the thread.

A not-so-great thought just came to me. The above reference I made about dancing and the manifestation of the spirit had absolutely nothing to do with a certain former twi production. I was thinking purely of the power of music and dance that I felt while watching these two clips.

Catchy tune! Speaking of dancing - wasn't this one of the manifestations of the spirit? I'm sure it was...

I used to disregard your posts about there being myths in the Bible as simply "inconceivable." But then, one crack led to another crack and .... then, there was a letting go. Thank you for your reply.

Is there even a spiritual realm? How would we even know? Wasn't it the unexplained events in the physical realm that gave birth to the earliest Egyptian's mythologies?

Checking for understanding. You're saying the spark of the divine in the biblical authors' writings was from God and we can find places where that spark appears because of how they subjectively inspire each of us. Am I paraphrasing you correctly? I think we all could put some inspirational words down on paper? Some might say they come from meaningful personal experiences, and others may say they were inspired by God - He put the words on their heart to write. Would the two different origins make any difference to the reader? Should they?

There were a few times when I actually thought my non-verbal, autistic grandson may have had a devil spirit(s) because of how physically agitated he would become sometimes and then, especially, when he began to have seizures. The seizures had become myoclonic in nature where his head would jerk severely downwards and forcibly hit whatever was in front of him. He had regular black eyes, bruises, cuts and bumps on his forehead and face. I've let go of those thoughts since deconverting. Doing so was like coming out of a freakish h..llhole where I feared not being able to cast out a devil spirit from my own grandson and entering a bright and sane place where such thoughts mean nothing because devil spirits are not real - they don't exist! (Since then, my grandson's neurologist changed his meds, and he no longer has those extreme jerks.) During this time, a friend wanted to encourage me to trust God again and shared how their teenage son prayed for God to remove demons from someone appearing to have a heart attack and the person instantly was delivered of their symptoms. I had no way of knowing if the healing was real or not, but I did know how off-putting the story was to me. It only reinforced my determination to never go back to that "world" again.

I'm a bit confused by your posts. For there to be any foreshadowing done by God, wouldn't the following ideas have to be taken as truth: - the God of the bible is true - the fall of man is true - the need for a messiah is true therefore, the foreshadowing of this messiah by the God of the bible is true?

Hi Oldiesman, I should rename the title of this thread to "letting go" instead of "losing" one's faith. I have listened to quite a few interviews on Harmonic Atheist and when this topic comes up, the answer is usually "nothing" happens after death. Another answer is maybe reincarnation based on research of memories of a past life by some people. The pain/fear of letting go of the belief in an afterlife with Christ where there is no more tears, death, sorrow or pain and where one is reunited with loved ones becomes a non-issue when one sees that the Bible was authored by man alone. What is left is not living a pitiful life but living one with all your heart, strength, mind and soul for the here and now.

Thanks. I listened to an interview yesterday about how the verses used in the Gospels to show the fulfillment of OT prophecies about the Messiah are not accurate. The Rabbi Tovia Singer appears to know the Hebrew bible very well. He was pretty critical of how NT writers took Hebrew verses out of context as well as misinterpreted and/or changed them so they seemingly look like they've been fulfilled in Jesus. This makes sense with what you are both saying above. For anyone interested, the website is below. (I have only listened to the video - I have not studied it yet.)

Yes, but I heard it taught in twi without, I think, any mention of Oral Robert. The thought just came to me that this topic was discussed on GSC and with a search, it shows 160 places where it has. So, my question was how did the continuity of this idea make its way all through the OT. This is one of the points that was used to show God had to have been its author.

Yes, I also see that Genesis 3 is a story and a lot more than just that one chapter as well. What I still wonder about is how the man-made story called the "red thread" of the messiah was kept going through all the years of the OT writings. Any comments or suggestions?

To clarify, it is obvious that we have free will. My point for the above statement is that Adam and Eve had a perfect and loving relationship with God until Lucifer entered into the picture. Then, they were tempted by the great and cunning tempter and chose the fruit over God. The issue for me is why in this biblical record was there even a need for Adam and Eve to make a choice. More precisely, why did God need to put the forbidden-to-eat tree in the garden in the first place? In a perfect world like the garden of Eden, would needing to obey someone be a necessary part of proving your love for that someone? If so, that would make the definition of love obedience. I ask these questions because of the firm belief Christians have to argue that Adam and Eve chose to disobey God thereby putting the focus for the corruption of the world on them and not on God who designed the whole scenario to be set up this way in the first place. Mankind became nothing but degenerate sinners, impure and evil instead of imperfect (to varying degrees) human beings, and God became their glowing necessary savior. IMO, Genesis 3 is either a true record of a god which continues to demand obedience to this day, or it is a story that ancient mankind came up with to explain the pain and suffering in the world.

Raf, below is a website on the death of Stephen in the book of Acts. It’s from the website called Vridar. It references quite a bit the book “Acts and Christian Beginnings: The Acts Seminar Report Paperback – Sept. 23 2013” https://vridar.org/2013/11/26/the-fiction-of-stephen-the-first-martyr/ Was there one or two resources you looked at when researching this topic?

I haven't found scripture that mentions 5 days yet, but here's one that mentions 2. Exodus 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. I have skimmed through 6 commentaries on these verses; 3 of them only talked about verse 20 and the other three had different "justifiable" explanations for verse 21. It's too much to stomach.

Wow - I found your thread from 2014 which garnered over 600 replies. I'll check it out. I also found your thread "Ten Years of Unbelief" which I plan to read after replying. As horrible as the curses listed in Deuteronomy 28 are, the support of them by apologists is just as disgusting. I think verse 63 in that chapter says a lot: "And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goes to possess it. It's not that I think as a mere mortal that I have the right to criticize a biblical almighty and creator God, it's that I no longer believe that such a horrible god truly exists.

That's interesting cman because God could have locked Lucifer and the fallen angels in chains forever at the time of their rebellion just like Revelation says he will do for a thousand years. What was God's reason for letting Lucifer remain free? The bible doesn't give one, but here's the thing. Adam and Eve didn't turn their backs on God's goodness and disobey him all on their own? They had no "sin nature" and did not know evil so they would have no reason to do so. They, and all of their descendants, could have known and loved God as well as enjoyed God's blessings. God could have delighted in them just as we delight in our children. (And no, they would not have been robots, otherwise those with eternal life in a future place where there is no more sin would also be robots.) But that apparently wasn't good enough for God. He needed and therefore demanded their obedience and that's where Lucifer comes in. Only when the serpent deceived Eve (which he was very "gifted" at according to Gen 3:1) did his temptation result in their sin. Even though I used to believe this, I am so tired now of hearing how sin and death came into the world because God so loved mankind that he gave them free will, and since man chose to disobey God, what happened as a result is totally their fault.

How about these: Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform (complete) it until the day of Jesus Christ: Phil 2:13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. Phil 4: 19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. And because of the above promises, here is my favorite: Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power. Here is something written recently by someone who believes in this verse and says they have seen this power in their life. It is part of a prophecy they are giving from the Lord. Oh, to have the faith of this person. (Btw, what is spoken about faith is according to scripture.) "But if you have faith in God, you will command the impossible, and you will need to do just that in the work I am sending you. I am sending you my Children to gather the sheep that remain, for many will come to me in these last minutes and I will not deny them, but I passionately search for them still. Open your mouths in faith and stand for me and minister to my Children. I have told you how to wield my power, but you refuse my instruction, so I will tell the forgetful among you once again. Why do you sheepishly ask a spirit to leave its host with stuttering lips and using my name Jesus Christ in a faithless manner? Do not use my name in vain! Command the spirits in my name with great faith and have faith in the words that I will give you, and the evil spirits will depart by my power through you! Why do you timidly ask sickness to leave when you should speak to the sickness in confidence in my name and command the impossible in my name and heal the sick.

Warning: Getting personal here Although I have been feeling relief from not having to please a god anymore so he would answer prayers, I woke up this morning feeling an emptiness knowing that he was no longer my source of love. Not wanting to get up, I laid there and came to realize that the only option left was to love myself – not love me because God loved me, but to love me as in “it's all up to me now” and surprisingly, this was okay with me. My core belief of being unlovable since childhood was always the reoccurring great need in my life for seeking after God's acceptance and love. Now, accepting that I am the sole person responsible for loving who I am seems to have come with an unforeseen benefit. The emotional connection I had to my childhood pain is no longer there. Here is why I think this happened . For a while now (and for periods over the years), I felt guilty for not trusting God enough, not walking by the spirit or power of God enough, not speaking his word boldly enough, etc., and all of this meant, according to Paul's epistles, I was not being "enough" for God . It was the exact same guilt I had as a kid for not being "enough" to make my dad want to stop drinking. I realize now that my two reasons for guilt had melded together in that the spiritual guilt reinforced my childhood guilt. Pretty deep, eh . Coming to believe recently that the epistles, with all the hype of what we are called to be and to do, were not inspired by God but written by a man. This blew up my spiritual belief of not being enough. Being free of that guilt allowed me to see there was actually nothing left of the self blame I carried as a child. Thankfully, freedom is no longer needing to . (I'm also thankful for the little emoji guys to help me tell my story.)

You're saying then that because the bible says he was sent by God means he was a manipulator just as God was. Cool - I can definitely see this. I've been listening to videos about how much Paul included teachings of Plato almost word for word in his writings which contradicts his saying that what he taught was not of men but by revelation from Jesus Christ. It's called "Paul or Plato? The Bible's Shady Origins" by Justin Best. I don't want to spend a lot of time researching whether the many examples shown on the video are accurate, but other videos have also focused on issues with his writings. A deconstruction of Paul's epistles is one way to see how the bible is not valid as a source of truth.

Justin Best begins talking about Paul at 60 minutes into the video. He credits his deconstruction of Paul with his eventual deconversion. He also talks about the following people whose works he studied and some of whom he has had conversations. Has anyone come across these names in their research? Dr. Richard Carrier: wrote Jesus from Outer Space and On the Historicity of Jesus Tovia Singer: an American Orthodox rabbi who teaches how Jesus could not have been the Messiah Dr. Dennis MacDonald: proposes a theory wherein the earliest books of the New Testament were responses to the Homeric Epics, including the Gospel of Mark and the Acts of the Apostles Homer’s Odyssey, inspiration for book of Mark, Paul copied Aristotle, Plato 1:40:00 Thersites the Historian: a youtube channel connecting Jesus with Thersites

I've heard a few different people take issues with Paul's epistles. Have you learned something about him or his writings that makes him out to be a manipulator?