Nathan_Jr

No doubt. Victor also wrote and uttered thousands of astonishingly nonsensical and poorly constructed sentences like this.

Oh no! Not the ECN folder! Don’t do it…. Dooooon’t do it… …. what? Not enough time? Of course not. (Whew!! That was close!)

You think wrongly. My advantage is that I look at them with a clear mind, a mind free from conditioning, free from indoctrination, free from expectations, free from conclusions, free from emotion, free from beleeef. Emotion doesn't need to be suppressed. That's childish. That's not how I deal with emotion. I'm not on a ride and I'm not hooked. I take no free rides. victor did, though. He took a free ride on the backs of so many. He thought he could freely spit in the face of a messenger of God. Look what happened. He paid the ultimate price. There's your fruit, unchanging.

I did, indeed, mean 1971. The transcript of the "teaching" on Romans with Q&A is from 1973. The errors just LEAP off every page. No need to look for them. They will find you. Also, CF&S syllabus and film from 1975. All are evidence from the alleged golden years before things went from bad to worse. It's hard to read them without flinching, cringing, laughing or vomiting.

That’s right. Thanks. I wouldn’t want to be off victor’s words. His own words reveal his depravity and stupidity.

Right! That, too! What is “in depth spiritual awareness and peception”? Is that on the green card? Advanced Class?

From all the unvarnished history told and examined in this forum, it should be impossible to logically separate the Corps from victor. Corps is of the seed of vpw. LCM is of the seed of vpw — oily head and all. To deny this fact is to, well, be in denial. This denial comes from a lack of “in depth spiritual awareness and perception.” This denial is a manifestation of willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty. And I’m inclined to beleeve it is no coincidence that the advent of Way Corps came a few years AFTER the founding of Sea Org. Way Corps is to vpw as Sea Org is to L. Ron Hubbard. Victor learned from whomever he could. If it was right on with effectual indoctrination, isolation, control and supply exploitation, he kept it. If it wasn’t, he dropped it. Hey! I didn’t write the book.

I have the complete transcripts of AC72 and AC79. Both taught directly by Vic. They include Q&A sessions at the end where vic “answers” questions. The questioners are named. The transcripts are fascinating and astonishing primary sources of historical evidence. No matter how hard one tries, they can’t be whitewashed. They can’t be misinterpreted. They can’t be misunderstood. I could send them to you, if you want.

^^This can’t be repeated enough. It’s true, even if you don’t beleeeve it. Hey! I didn’t write the book.

This is a real risk to consider. When I first came to GSC ten years ago, I thought it was pro TWI because of posters like Mike and Johniam and Jeaniam and others. It was a huge turn off and kept me away for years.

"Direct revelations are for special believing for miracles" This is an essential cop out in the huckster's bag of tricks. (Sine qua non.) It's so convenient. It fits like a glove full of bullshonta. "Will you please cast out that spurt?" "Not without revelation... I mean, I know how (H-O-W)... but, but... I'm not doing anything until I get revelation." "What about Johnny's withered hand? Can you heal that?" "I can, I mean, I know how (H-O-W), but I won't, unless l get revelation." "Oh." Come on people!! F cking bullsh it!!!

It shook me to my core, as well. I remember reading your story last year. I cannot forget it. I cannot forget victor paul wierwille's ironic false prophesy about Skyrider's parents, either. But I trust, which is to say, I super-special-believe, which is to say, I have believing faith the size of a mustard seed, which is to say, I bet my life that on THAT day some will be looking around for victor and this limb coordinator. But they will be out of sight, hidden, absent, because they will be inside the mouth of God scrubbing it clean of their defecate. That's the extent of the revelation (twice=established) on which I place my bet. What happens to them after they finish cleaning their filth from the mouth of God... well, that's God's business. I'm not placing bets on that. I know this: I would hate to be them on that day.

Faith = trust, letting go, surrender Belief = clutching, clinging, adhering

Only Thomas was permitted to put his hand in the wound. Only Thomas touched the incorporeal body of Jesus Christ. Only Thomas was vouchsafed an understanding that transcends all belief. Thomas found out. The rest had to believe.

If I remember correctly, among all 114 sayings of Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas, belief and believing is never mentioned.

You can't fix stupid, indeed. And I don't pretend that I can.

Of course. Sure. So? Right. The church in Rome. The body of Christ in Rome. Indeed, there are. Victor "taught" a lot of things. He "taught" a lot of error. He was wrong about Romans 13. For centuries charlatans, hucksters and autocrats have manipulated this chapter for their own selfish desires. Charlatan hucksters like victor twist the chapter in a vain effort to legitimize their lust for control and power. Nobody? So what. Doesn't make the honor righteous. Well... I'll let this speak for itself.

I don’t think it has really devolved into politics. Not REALLY. But it does appear to have taken a turn into a cave well lit by torches and occupied by terrorists.

You’re setting up your straw man as a false dilemma. I don’t believe any of what you suggest I believe . Romans 13 can be understood within Paul’s historical context — Roman imperial cult. What he’s saying in that chapter was for the 1st century Roman ekklesia (always ‘assembly,’ never ‘called out.’) not for 21st century Mericans. Find out what cult meant in the Roman Empire of Paul’s lifetime. Find out about the beleeeved divine status of emperors and their families Find out about gods EVERYWHERE during that time. Everyone honored and paid tribute to local and imperial gods, even Jews did — honor is not the same as worship.

It helps to bolster the case for historicity. This is how historians do history. But wisdom literature and scripture need not be historically accurate to effectively articulate Truth. Reading the Bible as a historical document to confirm historical facts will be problematic. But is this why one reads the Bible? Is historical fact the fruit? Or is there a deeper, higher fruit?

Nope. He was not a born again Christian. Not even might have been. He was born Jewish and was into TM. I'm not surprised you don't know this, even though you claim him as a hero. Andy Kaufman made a career of exposing and throughly eviscerating charlatans, including "Christian" hucksters like victor paul wierwille. If you want to find out about Andy Kaufman, you should search again. Or, if you prefer, re-search. Pentecostal Christians in the West aren't the only people on the planet who speak in tongues, whether counterfeit or authentic.

Yep. Boy, golly, does it ever! Sounds like victor paul wierwille and his oily-headed seed boy, loy craig martindale.

“It's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves.” Frank Kafka, The Trial (Hey! I didn’t write the book.)

Hey! I didn’t write the book. I didn’t coordinate the music. Did you see The Omen? Cookies don’t lie. It’s true, even if you don’t believe it.

The logic Mike employs is the same logic Victor employed when he squatted over and defecated into the mouth of God. It's a comedy show for the devil . He's laughing his foot off. Ask johniam.