Nathan_Jr

The choreography and music for “The Renewed Mind is the Key” are superior to AOS. A low bar, I know, but that song and dance just crushes AOS. It always makes me smile and laugh — joyful noises. Additionally, that “Renewed Mind” show seems to really be moving the YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou+YourBelieving over the world — 698,000,000 views on YouTube!

Actually, I don't know what they are. No one one knows, like no one knows the meaning of San Diego. There is no authoritative definition of earfoam. If you are in a small group, you can make up any definition you want. I'm not in that group, so the earfoam will just have to sit there like a duck, undefined.

Foam pads that cover headphones.

If they don't fit, you've got to MAKE them fit. This is fundamental. Maybe you weren't paying close attention the first time. You haven't fully absorbed this kernel.

Reminds me of Thomas Merton, a Trappist monk and prolific author who connected with Buddhists in Asia. Are you familiar with him? In his final letter he wrote, "In my contacts with these new friends, I also feel a consolation in my own faith in Christ and in his dwelling presence. I hope and believe he may be present in the hearts of all of us."

Right! I've heard victor do the same in his "sermons/teachings." It seems to come down to the "We know, you don't, because you've been mislead, but it's not your fault, we have the truth like it hasn't been known, and we will teach you, but hold your questions in abeyance..." tactic. It's an early move in the indoctrination to separate the seeker from reality. "Nothing is real. You've been deceived. Stay with us for your protection. Forsake your friends, family and discernment. No need to even think for yourself anymore. We will do it for you. You want those crowns, right? Ok. Good. Keep those questions in abeyance."

That's fine, too. I like to look at several versions, including the Geneva. (I haven't checked out the Matthews Bible, yet.) I'm not tied to any version. I find it all very interesting, but I'm not dogmatic about any of it, as you know. The older English versions require additional tools like the OED, if one is to understand that older English. It is helpful to understand what words meant to those living 400 years ago. The English language has changed. This is my only point. The Greek stays the same (99% of the time), but study in 1583 carries a different meaning than it does in 2023. Going back to the Greek is important, too. Obviously? I wish I was proficient in Greek.

What is this work?

I heard my fellowship commander throw a lot of snarky, condescending jabs at the KJV translators. I’ve heard the same from off-shooters. Of course, the jabs were delivered with exasperated, patronizing sighs. The OED can help anyone discover why the translators made those decisions. English was different at that time. One must understand what words meant during the Elizabethan period to understand the KJV. We shouldn’t anachronistically project modern usage onto 16th century England - not if we are interested in scientific precision and mathematical exactness. Throughly and study are two great examples of what I’m talking about. Charlene, did anyone ever explain to Victor his mishandling of Elizabethan English? If so, what was his response? (I love reading the KJV. It’s beautiful. However, I prefer a modern, literal version like the NASB for understanding, study.)

Or the actor could just stand in silence on stage and do nothing and wait for his cue. (Like a duck.) Is the actor FORCED to flub lines?

Either the YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou+YourBelieving says what it means and means what it says, or it does not.

He didn't mean complete the way you or I or billions of others would use it. Not today. Not in 1967. Not in 90 CE. Somewhere in the collaterals there must be victor's own private definition of complete.

I have never forbidden anyone from using their imagination and arbitrary whimsy. Language changes. It's the only constant of language. Not sure if evolve is the scientifically precise or mathematically exact word. But, hey, word choice is a personal matter, I suppose, like word meanings.... or genus species identity... or race identity. Hey! Use your imagination. Go buck wild with it! No one can forbid you that.

Yep. It's not research at all. That is clear. Inventing definitions is required. That is also clear. Got to MAKE it fit. No one missed it.

The OED is so helpful, maybe essential, if one is using the KJV as a study Bible, it seems to me. Elizabethan English is different, as you know. The OED shows this. It provides definitions and usages for that period. Divine revelation is not required to sort out throughly and thoroughly.

An alleged atrophy of free will is NOT why people are so easily blown about by every wind of doctrine. It is the inquisitive mind, not the will, that is atrophied. It's a lack of discernment, a lack of curiosity. It seems nobody wants to find out anything for themselves. Every one is so eager to be spoon fed. No one has the patience or stillness of mind to simply look to see what is really going on.

Thank you, Charlene. The Walter Cummins quote supports a recently asserted apologia. Research is for verification, not discovery. It's a verification ministry, not a research ministry. The research should support victor's imagination. (The apologist said this with a straight face.) And the "endorsement" directly following Walter's! Throughly vs thoroughly. Wow. Did you have an OED at the research department?

Well, answers are available. What does the YourBelieving+YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou say about it? Reading into it whatever you want is fine as long as you call it with your mouth exegesis. Don’t call it eisegesis. Don’t do it. Doooooon’t do it! We were “taught” inventing definitions of words and corrupting what YourBelieving+YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou says is necessary to MAKE it fit like a glove. Remember, Paul left his cloak behind, but he didn’t forget his gloves. Gloves are most important - the glove is the key. We were “taught” the conclusion must come first. The proof, the common sense, the logic, both intellectual and spiritual, are never that important. The proofs appear important, but they are merely apparent. The glove is the conclusion. If the hand doesn’t fit the glove, don’t blame the glove! Don’t do it. Dooooon’t do it! Surgery, not tailoring, may be required. Cut off a finger, add some filler, whatever. We were “taught” it MUST fit, so MAKE it fit! victor paul wierwille “taught” defecating in the mouth of God is problematic only if you believe it will be. We were “taught” to imitate victor, to stand on his shoulders. Most “grads” missed these “teachings” the first time. These “teachings” were never fully absorbed.

"I'm reading along in [YourWalk+YourBelieving+TheBible+ChristInYou] and another "budget"..."

The lake of fire is just a figger of speech illustrating with mathematical exactness the literal meaning, according to usage, of the scene I described.

The white horse will be saddled with bags filled with the collaterals. Jesus will teach from PFAL. And the music of AOS will provide the soundtrack.

If you try hard enough you can MAKE it fit. I can appreciate various genres of music, but I separate my appreciation from my preference, though sometimes they are aligned. Some of my favorite music could not be considered great. Jerry Garcia was NOT a great vocalist, the quality of the band's performances were inconsistent, often abysmal, and it could be argued that they never really improved, though they had decades to do so. But I love the Grateful Dead's music, nonetheless. Classical music and Jazz played a big part in the soundtrack of my youth, because that's what my dad liked and it was ALWAYS playing in the house. To compare the music of AOS with great classical composers, to call it one the greatest compositions of the 20th century, strikes me as an opinion from someone who has never listened to great music nor tried to understand what makes great music. As the logical errors literally leap off the pages of PFAL and the collaterals, so do the pretentious affectations of AOS. It is cringe. It's not for me.

"It has always been my opinion that AOS had the best of the best music. I have thought of it as being some of the best music of the 20th Century." These are challenging, if hilarious, sentences to read. They are telling. I invited my son to join me at the movies last week. He wasn't keen on the particular film because his mom saw it and she said it was not good. When pressed, he admitted she didn't like it because it depicted some human behavior she disagreed with -- she hated it because of this. It was an opportunity to teach on criticism -- criticism of film, music, architecture, food, coffee... whatever. I quoted the excellent essay On Connoisseurship by the wine writer Matt Kramer, "A Connoisseur is one who can distinguish between what he or she likes, and what is good. The two are by no means always the same."

This is a good, very brief look at a deep, nuanced and important issue to consider. Where do our thoughts come from? Do we by our own volition generate thoughts? Or, do thoughts just arise? What can we control? Think about a movie. Any movie. It doesn't matter if you've seen it or not. Pick one, any one. Ok, got it? Now, where did THAT come from? Of the hundreds or thousands of movies you know, why did that one emerge in your thought? Did you choose it? Why Casablanca instead of Forest Gump? Here's another one. Try to stop thinking. Clear your conscious mind of its contents. By your own free will make your thoughts stop. You will notice the harder you try the worse it gets. We are all conditioned. The script is there. Thoughts seem to arise on their own. It seems to me the first and most liberating thing to do is pay attention. See it. The topic of this thread is more complicated than it appears, and I'm not finished considering it.

Yep. There she is. I knew I heard her. I just KNEW it!