Nathan_Jr

Mike once argued it’s not arrogance if you can do it. He thought he might be quoting Babe Ruth who said something like, “If I can jump over a barn, is it bragging to say I can?” No. It’s not bragging. But you can’t jump over a barn! (Or control the weather.) Weather was all devil spirits with this fellowship. We have awesome thunderstorms here in the Deep South. Really powerful, electric, beautifully terrifying events. Always caused by devil spirits. The devil controlled the weather, unless it was a crisp, blue sky, sunshine daydream, then, I guess, it was the day the lord hath made.

No. Never did.

Surely, but that would be counterfeit fire.

Some who post here seem to be into geography. They may be aware of a phenomenon called the "Barksdale Bubble." It's a microclimate around Barksdale Air Force Base, fluidly defined by a perpetually alternating trough and ridge. Major, devastating systems seem to always pass just over or under the Shreveport-Bossier metro area - the course ominous and direct, yet dodging just north or south at the Texas line and resuming course around Minden. My whole life I never heard the term, but I was aware of the pattern. I learned the term when I was told our fellowship commander was responsible for this "Barksdale Bubble." This was proof that we were under his hedge of protection. And we should be so thankful. Now, I'm no climate scientist, but I'm certain the "Barksdale Bubble" has existed for hundreds, if not thousands of years. But why would he, by the "power" "taught" to him by that charlatan, protect an entire metro area full of unbelievers and devil spurts, but not protect members of his own family of beleeevers from murder? Or from a life sentence in prison? Or from Parkinson's disease? Could it be he was never taught how? H. O. W. Or, could it be that it's all pure, Grade-A bullshonta.

7th, "if it's the truth, what does it matter if he plagiarized?" Except so much of what he plagiarized isn't true or accurate. And I don't mean doctrinal positions -- that's a matter of belief, opinion, preference. Also, to plagiarize is to lie. The liar can't convey the truth - simple math. It's not the truth because victor says so. If one must dishonestly twist the text to say and mean what it plainly does not, it's not the truth. Test all things. We've advanced a long, long way in our understanding of Koine Greek since Bullinger and his Victorian sensibilities. Bullinger is outdated. There are better, more accurate lexicons available today. Not to mention easily reproved, corrected and refuted imaginations like the four-crucified stupidity.

Today I earned that victor not only ripped off Oral Robert's Fourth Man sermon, he claimed as his own Robert's personal story of preaching to the trees. WITAF! This is as petty and weak as his plagiarizing poetry.

"Stupider than stupid" = four-crucified stupid

WordWolf and others would have a better understanding of what Sky meant, but I understood it as an accumulation of cash at one event on one day, "the big meeting" -- where hermeneutical fallacies, contrived definitions and imaginary grammar flowed like...well, cash. Here's the quote from Skyrider's reply to Rocky in that thread... "As you noted, I wouldn't begin to guesstimate how much cash went undisclosed "under the table." I remember ushering and collecting horns of plenty at roa in the early 80s. You know, when wierwille did the big meeting and abs-push for all that twi had done for you. In each section, we collected the horns of plenty with cash only and were strategically told to take these to the OSC Building, thru the big door where they parked the fire truck. At the back of this room (out of sight from the general public).... there were like 8 clean trash barrels for us to dump the cash into. I do not remember seeing one check (only cash) in all the activity. Make no mistake... the security guys were watching all of this movement like hawks. I got the impression that they didn't even trust Limb/Region guys from sticking their grubby little paws into these horns and pocketing some money for themselves. What happened to these trash cans of cash. Well, I have no idea, but was given the impression that they were swiftly taken to the Finance Department for counting and safe keeping. All of it, cash. How would any one ever know if major sums never made it on the books? Whose to say that one (or two) trash cans of cash never even made it to the Finance Department? Everyone was glued to their chairs as wierwille opened his Bible and began teaching. Slick, nice diversion."

This reminded me of the vivid imagery in a post from Skyrider. Couldn't remember the title of that thread, but I found it very quickly when I searched that unforgettable phrase, "trash cans of cash."

Conditional salvation can't come from unconditional love.

Does love have space for jealousy and wrath?

I'm perfectly comfortable with not knowing or understanding what you believe. I qualified what I said with "I think..." I can only go by the words you write here. I can only go by the words victor spoke and wrote. Either those words form coherent ideas or they compose a salad. Victor claimed there was much to do to garner favor from his god. Victor said belief is what you do, faith is what you have. Gotta beleeeve before you can get his god's love. And there are other things to do to get extra love (rewards). Conditions.

Invisible Touch, Genesis?

If I say "I believe," it is this definition I mean. I believe until better evidence or better argument is presented. Belief is ALWAYS temporary and dependent. It is never held tightly. The first two definitions more accurately apply to beleef.

And I should say, if one wants to find out if there is that which has no name, that which is eternal, one may very well find out for oneself. In this finding out, one shall see that belief has nothing to do with any of it. But, please, PLEASE, do NOT believe me.

Victor paul wierwille, NaRd., valued belief above all action (without exception, or, if you prefer, without distinction). He taught believing is something you do, faith is something you have. So, works-dependent, not faith-dependent, salvation was the foundation of his theology, doctrine, dogma. Beleeeve in four crucified, let the Greek language and the textual evidence be damned!! Just look around you today. Pay attention. Belief is the source of all division. In spite of evidence and facts and reason and logic, billions of people cling to their beliefs. Children are abused and murdered everyday because of belief. Genocide has always been justified by belief. Belief is the bedrock of theocratic fascism. (I'm feverishly resisting stepping over the precipice into politics!) Science is improved by better science. I believe something to be true until I no longer have to - until I know, until I see. I respect anyone's RIGHT to believe, but I don't have to respect WHAT they believe. Notice, the more you know, the more you question; the less you know, the easier it is to be sure of your stupid, stupid beliefs.

I’ll tell you what’s behind those ideas. BELEEF. Who requires you to beleeve? The ideologue, the politician, the propagandist, the grifter, the charlatan, that’s who. The liar needs you to beleeve. Only the liar will preach the importance of beleeving above all else Belief has no place where truth is concerned.

I know. I’m a shameless opportunist when it comes to the use of “four crucified stupid.”

Not just stupid. Flat Earth stupid. No. Worse. Four crucified stupid - the stupidest.

I can count on you, Waysider.

To see as a child. To see as a child before cultural, political and religious conditioning. To see without judgement. To see without beleef. To see what actually is. So, to see purely, completely, serenely. To see everything with awe and wonder. This is real liberty and power. This is the new birth, again. But it may only come as a glimpse. Don't ask me how. I cannot say and I would not say. It can't be uttered. But we all had it once. (All without exception, or, if you prefer, all without distinction.) This can't happen while clutching, clinging, to dogmas, doctrines, presumptive conclusions and beleefs.

Ok. But isn't something required of you to be saved from the one who loves you? Isn't there something to do first before receiving this saving love? Conditions must be met, lest wrath come down upon thee!

It is not unconditional. The love comes once the conditions are met. I don't think TLC believes it's unconditional. Even poor victor didn't "teach" unconditional love.

Reading through Romans chapter 2 again - it's been awhile - and all I can say is, Wow! I wonder if victor paul wierwille, NaRd., ever read this chapter? I wonder if he had, could he have been persuaded to start obeying truth and stop defecating in its mouth?

Thanks, Charity, for answering my question. Saved from the wrath. Got it! Were all those passages (without exception or distinction) written to me, or are they merely for my learning? Would you please cite chapter and verse? I'd like to look at the context and examine the Greek from which the phrase "obey the truth" is rendered. Such a curious phrase, obey the truth. I suspect it's an awkward translation or else a figger of speech.