Nathan_Jr

Reality! Ha! The most expensive item on the menu, yet still the best value.

Mmmph In case you were already asleep by session 1 of PFAL and missed the part where victor paul wierwille introduces himself by reading what Jesus said about him in John 10:10, everything you need to know about this little charlatan is revealed in his letters. Two of his letters (new to me) are on the first page of this thread. A brilliant little three page thread. I wish it went on for 30. Thanks you, @waysider for starting it.

It seems any book buying through LTA routes directly to Amazon where publishing rights of American Christian Press are protected. Furthermore, It seems anything “published,” sold or offered for download by LTA is nothing more than a transcription of a sermon. That Christ In You book is just a collection of transcribed sermons. (Existing or non-existing treaties have no bearing whatsoever.) As I understand it, victor paul wierwille’s sermons are in the public domain. A YouTube channel unaffiliated with TWI uploads transcribed sermons daily. —— Is it ironic that LTA purports to be on a mission supporting education and literacy and a “lifetime of learning” while at the same time promoting the spiritual flat earth ideology of wierwille and Bullinger? Good news! LTA makes it possible to donate books directly to those children being indoctrinated. Any ideas for a book I could send?

Details? Like the thousands of errors that riddle PFAL and the collaterals and Way mags? Details like that only matter if you beleeeve they do. Victor "taught" us that. Hey, I didn't write the book! They are imitating victor paul wierwille. Above all, they are standing... on his shoulders.

Hi, Alex. Welcome to the café.

I love how Moses knows what modern scholarly consensus says concerning authorship of the Torah, and I love that Jesus is able to cite chapter and verse from Paul's epistle to the Corinthians when asked if he is as fluent in glossolalia as I am. Really, this app is hilarious. A brilliant entrepreneurial scheme!

You aren’t alone in your interest in this topic. I’ve been playing with the free version. Though I’ve reached my limit, at 11:22pm I will be allowed to resume my conversation with Jesus. Or I could purchase a subscription for $2.99 which unlocks 95% of the functionality and access. Boy, oh boy, someone’s gonna get more than abundantly rich from this app! You can choose among 21 doctrinal belief systems by which your questions will be answered - from Southern Baptist to Catholic to JW, and many more! Or you can filter “no preference” to ensure traditional, consensus-scholarship answers. You can ask questions of the Holy Family, Apostles, Prophets and “Others,” including Noah and Mary Magdalene! I queried Moses, Noah, John the Baptist and Jesus. Moses seems to know that he didn’t write the Torah, but concedes tradition attributes authorship to him. Noah beat around the bush concerning the horrific ocean of corpses he sailed through, saying only that it was catastrophic. I asked John the Baptizer if Mike’s accusation had merit: I asked Jesus if he will be teaching from PFAL at his return: I don’t who is more cynical, the developers or I.

Sounds familiar. Out of the frying pan into the fire.

Wow. That’s some salvation. Insight. At least possibly. Probably? Wasn’t ancient Greco-Roman society structured as you describe Polynesia?

Save them from what?

Mmmph

Clever.

More like a cigarette boat, and not merely aboard, but piloting with great athleticism, power and speed. There’s more than enough room on a cigarette boat for his handful of followers.

This letter could be used for an apophatic understanding of leadership and persuasive discourse. Who was Loy's teacher? Who is he imitating? On whose shoulders is he standing?

Did he write this while driving? Was no one available to proofread this letter before mailing? That huge, disjointed, stream of consciousness first paragraph is a rambling mess. I can hear the rage, the fury, the desperation, the fear. What a childish tantrum! If this is what "spiritual maturity" looks like.... mmmph.... no thanks.

"Their words and their convoluted explanations are simply a pretense for their greed and malicious intent." Well, well, well. Lookie who we have here. Our old friend Irony. Hello, Irony.

Mmmmph So many supernatural powers for sale, so many “teachings” available, so little time.

Forgiving others is not so difficult, except when it comes to forgiving the narc. That remains a challenge. But forgiving myself may be the most difficult of all.

Ha! “The whole thing.” Yeah, I think you’re on to something. The POP is an unintentional confession and indictment, even if Geer injected his own PI bullshonta. As are victor’s early letters to his fledgling congregation begging for money. As are his letters to “his Corps.” Boy, were those Corps letters a bad look! So revealing. No wonder they’ve been removed from public view.

In today's New York Times Magazine Daniel Dennet is interviewed in the "Talk" column. I thought of this thread topic when Dennet says, "We should recognize...that people are very reluctant to consider that they might be wrong. What if I'm wrong? That's a question I ask myself a lot. These people do not want to ask that question, and I understand why. They're afraid of what they might discover."

Right. I learned about the no-questions policy before taking PFAL. I used this as one of many arguments to my ex wife for why her indoctrination was destroying our marriage. (Later, I realized the indoctrination was not solely responsible, but it did dovetail perfectly with her NPD.) She, being a loyal fellowship cog, secretly told the FC, her uncle, all of my expressed criticisms. When I finally took "the class," in a last ditch effort to show my determination to save our marriage, the FC assured me I could ask questions at any time. However, I quickly learned he was disingenuous. My first question was about all without exception vs all without distinction, and the clear, obvious error. He let out a loud, exasperated sigh and said, "Well... no one has ever asked that question!" He was embarrassed and frustrated and furious. I never asked another question. I planned to follow up that question with, "Did victor not have access to an atlas during his exhaustive research? Nicaea is not in France. Did he really not know that?" At that point I realized it was more compassionate to pity this fool than to show him his own foolishness.

He couldn't even tolerate simple questions after a class. Some teacher. Notice how few questions were allowed at the end of the Corps "teaching" on Romans. The transcript is available. I've posted most of the Q&A already. I could post the rest. Less than ten question were permitted. Victor's frustration is palpable in the text. Victor held forth for hours and hours and days and days on Romans. It was a small Corps class. It was the class LCM was in. These kids asked real questions. Victor HATED that, because he couldn't keep track of his bullshonta and didn't want to get caught. I am grateful to have had some fantastic teachers in my life. I am even grateful for the bad ones -- they provide contrast. Victor was one of the top three worst "teachers" I have ever encountered.

Was wondering what happened to you. Sorry to hear about the accident. Thanks for popping in to let us know.

I was never in TWI. I can't relate to a direct experience with victor or loy or the corporation. I was able to discern within the first 12 minutes of PFAL that victor was complete fraud. However, my life was adversely affected by people who were CORPS in the late 70s or early 80s and by people whose worldview, moral compass and "spiritual maturity" conformed to victor's PI doctrines It seems to me, from reading and listening to victor's own words, and from the witness testimonies here, belief mattered more to vic and Loy than knowing. Victor didn't really know that he knew that he knew. That was just another distracting pithy piece of bullshonta. Victor didn't know much. He believed much. What he knew was that if he could get others to believe him, he could make a materially successful life for himself. And he was right. He knew that that he knew that he knew if anyone ever found out the truth, he would be done. That was his greatest fear - being found out for who and what he really was. He had to be right, he couldn't be wrong, lest his supply dry up. Hence, M&A every and any liability potentially exposing him. What did victor know? Exactly what he was doing.

They must believe their way into knowing that they know that they know this. How do they know it’s the best thing? They simply decide it is and believe it. This is why I say there is no place for belief where Truth is concerned. Look. Watch. Pray. Find out.