Nathan_Jr

THIS. The eggshells. This is exactly what NPDs make you do - walk on eggshells all the time. All nine eggshells all the time. When I defended with no condemnation, completely complete, super-conqueror, I was met with rage and fury. Hypocrisy and contempt. Hell hath no fury like a dogmatic doctrine full of holes.

Really? All devil spirit access all the time? Maybe Mike can define it according to usage. Mike, what is the unforgivable sin according to victor?

"The stronger believer has a more renewed mind." Here the renewed mind is a conditioned mind shackled (strengthened) by belief. Not a free mind, but a programmed mind. The lie requires belief to wield any power or influence; but Truth requires no belief.. How did he define the unforgivable sin? What is the DTA class?

Concise and well said TBone. It's a fair reinterpretation. It's so subtle, but this is how the thief operates. In a diligent effort to make me obedient and renew my mind for me, I was taught, admonished with the same logic: imitate vic because Vic>Paul>Christ>God or Victor reveals Paul; Paul reveals Christ; Christ reveals God; therefore, victor reveals God. As absurd as this sounds, I still have the messages as proof. This sinister deception is real.

He can't teach Christian character because it's a hand too righteous to fit in his little withered glove. So much is revealed on every single page of this 200 page transcript. Victor HATES questions because he's afraid of being exposed. Those who are apt to teach are not afraid of questions. He reacts by deflecting and inventing and by offering word salad. So much bull$hit. It may be challenging for some to hear the obvious deception when listening to tapes, but to read it written on the page, it's glaringly obvious. His narcissism compelled him to record and transcribe everything. But by doing this, he got too far out over his skis, as someone so insightfully once said on this forum. Thank God for GSC.

In the Corps teaching on Romas in 1973 Loy Craig asks vic about this. I'm not sure if Craig is trying to justify victor or himself, but the exchange is revealing, in spite of victor's cryptic answer. And you can see vic getting annoyed with Craig for pressing him.

But the Constitution is a self-interpreting document from which we get righteous instruction for making three-fingered gloves for those completely incomplete people. Gloves for all without exception. It's so simple, if you just work it. Three-fingered hands fit perfectly in three-fingered gloves. Bless your little hearts. I wish you could read it in the original.

A Man's Search For Meaning has been on my list for a long time. No excuses. I wonder if PFALT is as hateful of Jews as PFAL. The irony of victor demeaning Jesus as a bastard Jew while revering the apostle Saul who claimed to be the Jew of Jews... oh, the pathological contradictions! The hate. The division. Gross.

It must be true. Why? Because he said so. Who said? The doctor, the reverend, the authority said. Why is he an authority? Because he himself said so about himself. Well, then. It must be true if he says it's true. After all, he's the authority according to himself. Victor said it, I believe it, that settles it. This is stupidity. Authority is not a good enough reason to BELEEEVE. Questioning authority is not anarchy.

Late Lament. Must be a coded psalm of wonderful truths, because ALLITERATION!! Man, when you know that you know about alliteration and preposition, the whole thing just fits in a bloody glove.

Right. Child-F-ing. Only religion can interpret away such a bloody glove.

Probably. Predetermined by a set of possibilities or causes? Authority is the 2nd weakest reason to believe anything, according to Peirce

Not at all. Insanity can be determined by chemical imbalance. This is sad. But insanity by free will believing in self-proclaimed authority is stupid.

One doesn't need to explicitly state a meaning that interprets itself in the original.

Right. But only religion and ideology can justify it. Religion causes otherwise sane and moral people to do stupid and wicked things.

A cycle of mind-F's? It's belief in ideology, in religion, that allows man to justify wicked deeds like slavery, rape and child sacrifice. This is why I don't believe in belief. Either I know or don't know. One must be "taught" how (H-O-W) to rationalize this kind of sickness. Abraham almost muerdering Isaac is a twisted horror story.

Then there's the twisted game Yahweh played with Abraham and Isaac. This wicked game of parents murdering/sacrificing their own children is a self-interpreting, recurring theme. So wicked.

Right. Wickedness. I would NEVER sacrifice my son for anything or anyone. Not for any ideology. Not for man-made theology. Not for self-interpreting stories written by superstitious ancient middle easterners. Not on a boat. Not with a goat. Scapegoating - there's a self-interpreting orientalism for you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat Vicarious redemption. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitutionary_atonement This man-made theological paradigm has ancient Jewish and pagan roots in gloved hands.

Since this entire forum arose out of religious and spiritual abuse, and we're in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible, I'll try to illustrate within a biblical context. John 20 is about Jesus appearing to the disciples in the upper room after he was buried. This story is obviously told from John's perspective, and either he or the later scribal editors were trying to make a point about Thomas and how it's better to believe blindly. But that's not the lesson revealed to me. Only because Thomas doubted was he vouchsafed the truth of the resurrection by Jesus himself. Only Thomas, of all the apostles, touched the incorporeal body of Jesus. Only Thomas went beyond BELIEF to true knowledge. Only Thomas, the DOUBTER, was awarded this astonishing understanding. He didn't have to BELIEVE it, he KNEW it, he found out. This is what I teach my son. Doubt everything and everyone (especially those claiming to HAVE the Truth.) Endeavor to find out for yourself, and you will. Maybe the author of John or the later scribal editors didn't like Thomas for some reason, or they were jealous of him, or he was out of fellowship and undeserving of spit. I don't know. But the lesson I get from this story was surely not their intention. It interpreted itself this way in spite of the scribes' intentions.

Of course, we are all conditioned, but there was a time when we were not. Can you remember back that long ago? Before you decided that you were separate? And even physics tells us that we are not separate - we are all stardust. We are conditioned by culture, by media, by TEACHERS who make great claims for themselves. (Knowing an observable fact like fire burns or walls can't be walked through is not conditioning. Or it's not what I mean by it. These are observable, actual FACTS.) Can we observe that we indeed are conditioned? Not judge it, but just look at it, see it for what it is. We can. Contrary to what vic preached, we CAN go beyond what we are taught. This requires rigorously honest self-awareness, self-examination. Belief is not knowledge. Is it? Belief is not awareness. Is it? I try to pay attention to these questions. Victor made a HUGE deal about BELIEVING. So, I want to find out why we have to believe something? Why can't we find out for ourselves and KNOW? I'm comfortable to first admit that I Iknow nothing. Only from this position can I know anything at all. I tried to address this on an another thread where I mentioned Charles Peirce's essay "Fixation of Belief." It's in the public domain, but Peirce is not pleasurable to read, because he writes like the academic scientist he was 120 years ago. "Fixation of Belief" is his treatment of how and why we come to believe. He presents four methods we use in ."fixing" our beliefs or resolving doubt. In ascending order, weakest to strongest: 1. Tenacity. If a doubt arises about X, take a particular position on X, constantly reiterate that position to yourself in a way that you begin to believe X, then shut out anything that might cause you to doubt X. [David Agler] 2. Authority. Victor said it, that settles it, I believe it. 3. Agreeable to Reason (a priori). We simply think through whatever doubt we have until we happen upon a belief that seems right to us. [David Agler] 4. Science. The scientific method.

BRILLIANT!!! I'm laughing so hard, I just ....ed myself!!!

Jesus said: That which is veiled from you shall be unveiled for you. - Logion 5 Gospel of Thomas A promise.

Thanks for these excellent articles Bolsh and T-Bone. Much to contemplate here. Confirmation bias. "Habit patterns." One must be trained, programmed, indoctrinated, "taught" to BELIEVE coincidence is pattern and correlation is causal. When one can observe freely, free from conditioning, one can see what actually is. BELIEF is NOT required to see what is true.

So funny! I didn't have a particular K&P sketch in mind, but I love their dark satire, and I was imagining vp's narrative as a 1st draft from which they could work. The BS translator suits that little charlatan. ALSO, I imagined vp's fictional story as a Family Guy cutaway. if one can read vp's narrative through a glass of Light, one can see the darkness of his lie. Satire is one way to shine the Light of Truth. Victor doesn't scare me, he doesn't teach me, he makes me laugh - I appreciate dark humor. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy." John 10:10 Victor opens PFAL with John 10:10, but almost no one recognizes that by this verse he is introducing himself.

Thanks Word Wolf. That's it. Absolutely hilarious to read!! From the opening sentence comparing victor to Jesus to the last sentence comparing victor to Paul where the entire Far East will be opened, it reads like fiction, like a Key and Peele parody. It's laughable! Maybe, later, I will do a full treatment of this piece of work, line by line. (BTW, India is not devoid of Christians. On the west coast there is a significant Christian community that claims a very ancient tradition going back to the apostle Thomas, my favorite. But that's a topic for another thread.)