Nathan_Jr

"What about the money you owe?" "For WHAT!?"

I'm reminded of an iconic scene from an absurdly wonderful movie full of iconic scenes.

You don't need to know what it means. I will know what it means for you. All you've got to do is BELEEEVE it.

Mike said: I see it as THE new administration, and so do others who have come back to PFAL. The return of Christ is intimately connected with the Christ in us returning to this Word. So, The Word is PFAL. That settles it. Gloves and doves. Diamonds and ducks.

Hold the farm! I found the answer! The Word is NOT the Bible, it's NOT Jesus, and it's NOT the Christ. The Word is PFAL

A curiously Aryan Jesus was rendered on velvet, framed and hung conspicuously on the wall of the set during the filming of original PFAL. Anyway, who wants to look at a bastard Jew?

Good questions. I suspect that alternatives require deeper thought, perception and awareness. Contemplation is incongruent with rubbing in by repetition. The Bible as the Word is the gloved hand. A three-fingered glove perfectly fitting a cartoon mouse.

Yes, I know. I think I’ve read that before. The yelling and the stick on the face. Wretched, abject wickedness. Contemplating these phrases, even for a second, causes inflammation in my central nervous system, leading to graphic fantasies of violent retribution visited upon those who uttered them. A late night visit. A knock on the door at an uncommon hour. A penance violently extracted, not paid willingly. And obedience implies believing. If you aren’t obeying, it’s because you aren’t believing. And if you aren’t believing, you’re out of fellowship. This will require corrective action.

Mark, Who are the true followers of Christ who are truthfully, not deceptively, teaching?

(I’m not raping you, I’m loving you)

Obviously not true. The deceptive, untrue followers of Christ written about in the Bible were the true followers of Christ, according to themselves. Everyone claims the truth and calls all the others liars. The exact same thing is happening today. "I'm right, you're wrong," the mantra of each and every TRUE proselytizer of Christ. Every true follower of Christ can't be right. It's mathematically impossible. But every true follower of Christ could be wrong. This is a mathematical possibility. 1John 2:26-27 solves for this problem.

Gosh. Really? I wonder if you took the time too read what I wrote? It's a longer post than normal for me. It was even longer, but I work hard at concision - obviously not hard enough. *Sigh* I'm open to learning from anyone. Even those who think they have it all figured out. I wonder if you've read anything I've ever written here? What an odd, galactic leap of logic that's required to form this conclusion! I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all.

This looks interesting to me. As usual, a promising recommendation, Rocky. Wasn't victor's phrase: scientific accuracy and mathematical precision? Either way, you can't put God in that small of a box. Well, you can. But it won't help you. And it won't fit, anyway. You know, the way a hand fits...

Kinda. But not really. It says nothing whatsoever about getting taught by the right mortal teacher. It says nothing about getting a "teaching from a true follower of Christ." The point, purpose and meaning of these verses show who or what is the only reliable teacher where matters Truth are concerned. It's right there in the verses. It's the whole point of the passage. You even highlighted the forms of teach. Can you see it? It's not coded. It's not a trick. Hint: it's not any man born of a woman with a dogmatic doctrinal class or a book or a tax exempt 501C3. The New Testament is a collection of varied perspectives teaching against each other, and ALL of them were the TRUE followers of Christ - so each one says about himself. Everyone is claiming to have the real truth but the other doesn't: Paul vs. James; John vs. Thomas; Mathew vs Mark; and so on.... There is something to be learned from each of these perspectives. Who is the truthful one? Which teacher will you follow? Who will light your path? How will you see the path when that teacher, born of a woman, is gone? So, when it come to matters of Truth, Love, that which is eternal, who will be your teacher? Whoever wrote the epistle of 1John offers an answer. Obviously, we can learn from one another. We can even learn from the liars. (Hopefully, we learn something about BELIEVING them - that's all they require.) But how will you know if your teacher is truthful? This is why there can be no authority in these matters. Contrived, systematic, dogmatic doctrines of belief can only illuminate the path they have carved for themselves. Their prophesy must be self-fulfilling and self-sustaining. Self-referential. Circular. Finite. Belief has no place where Truth is concerned. And that includes belief in a teacher so anxious to teach. Why are the religious teachers so anxious to teach? Why do they hold forth, write books, form corporations? One must find out for one's self.

Since "believing implies obedience" (Life Lines), and the dead no longer believe, they are not only not alive now, they are disobedient. The Dead Are Disobedient Now.

If you say so. I’ll keep my queries in abeyance.

Oooh... like the way engravings on bracelets vouchsafe credentials?

Sure. You can also see it pointed to in Asian and Persian scripture and poetry. And, yes, old or ancient writings are not necessarily better, truer or more important because of their age. But the dilettante will disagree.

Thanks, Raf. The errors and contradictions in the Bible are only problematic for inerrantists. This is something I understood before taking "the class." I think I've been pretty clear about what inspiration of scripture means to me. But maybe I haven't. Truth is pointed to in the Bible AND outside the Bible in other scripture written by other people at different times. Truth is not confined to one collection of writings from one place in time. Whatever path I am on is exactly the path I need to go down. I DO need to go down it, whether or not the proselytizer or I like it or want it to be so. I don't know this because of discarded "faith." In fact, without "faith" I couldn't know this or accept it. Doctrine is of man's whimsy, arbitration and opinion. This is not a problem as long as we pay attention and are aware of the inherent limits. Teachers and teachings can be helpful pointers, but, ultimately, one must find out for oneself, otherwise the path will only be illuminated by someone else... has nothing been learned here? Sorry... huh??

This is true. Not pulled; rather, ejected, projected, spewed. Victor's God, it seems to me, is very flawed, egotistical, shallow, incompetent. Kinda like victor himself. Victor made God in his own image. God is in the publishing business? God wrote some books a long time ago? The Bible is God, written by God, interpreted by..... well, itself....which is God, the Bible, the Word, the Will? Really? Bull$hit. Or maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I just need to get taught more, have all this rubbed into me through repetition until I believe because believing implies obedience.

Authority implies authorship in a way, right? Why grant authority to one ancient book? I can write a book, then I will be the author. I will be an authority and so will the book I authored. There are some astonishingly beautiful poetry and prose in the Bible. Especially, the KJV. Some truly moving passages that affect me profoundly. I think the Greeks or Romans called this quality the numinous. Scripture and poetry and prose from all over the world has affected me in this very same, knee-buckling way. Same for music and nature and rare moments in time with loved ones. It seems to me, and I know nothing, that contriving authoritative, dogmatic, systematic theological doctrines from any scripture tips one's hand that he just doesn't get it That he is a dilettante. He is a teacher of how (H-O-W). Those that can't do, teach. (I hate this cliche because it's so often untrue, but in this context it fits like a....)

Can you try to rephrase this sentence? I don't understand what you mean.

I just think we need to always pay attention to the claims of authority. Trust, yes, but only as far as it can be verified. Who is the authority and why is he called that? Says who? So what? Oh, he says so of himself by himself? So what? The music coordinator says so? Are you f#cking kidding me? He calls himself Reverend? He calls himself Doctor? Yogi? Guru? He wrote a book? He has a class? Good for him. Bless his little heart. I need an automotive authority when my car needs service. I need a medical authority if I'm having surgery. And so on... But for matters of the Spirit, of God, of Life, Truth, Love, of that which is eternal (the Word?), there can be no authority. One must find out for one's self. Dogmatic doctrines don't even come close to any of this in my experience. I am no authority. Please do not take my word for it.. It's so easy to find someone who knows, the authority.... (hint) he's the one with the right doxy.... no, not that one.... the other..... yeah, that one. I know next to nothing. And I embrace this not knowing.

I was 'taught" that the Bible is a dictionary. Literally. A Greek and Hebrew dictionary, precisely. With a straight, smiling face the "teacher" "taught" this. He was a dilettante, also.

My fellowship father-in-da-word, and all those who deferred to him, often asked, "What does God say?" Of course, this always (without exception) meant: What does the KJV Bible say as it interprets itself according to vic-paul? God is so limited that he could only speak to the handful of literate men of Iron/Bronze Age Near East? And not only to the elite of that time and place, but only then again (after six others) to a dilettante charlatan of mid 20th century Ohio? Who or what is this God?