Nathan_Jr

Invisible Touch, Genesis?

If I say "I believe," it is this definition I mean. I believe until better evidence or better argument is presented. Belief is ALWAYS temporary and dependent. It is never held tightly. The first two definitions more accurately apply to beleef.

And I should say, if one wants to find out if there is that which has no name, that which is eternal, one may very well find out for oneself. In this finding out, one shall see that belief has nothing to do with any of it. But, please, PLEASE, do NOT believe me.

Victor paul wierwille, NaRd., valued belief above all action (without exception, or, if you prefer, without distinction). He taught believing is something you do, faith is something you have. So, works-dependent, not faith-dependent, salvation was the foundation of his theology, doctrine, dogma. Beleeeve in four crucified, let the Greek language and the textual evidence be damned!! Just look around you today. Pay attention. Belief is the source of all division. In spite of evidence and facts and reason and logic, billions of people cling to their beliefs. Children are abused and murdered everyday because of belief. Genocide has always been justified by belief. Belief is the bedrock of theocratic fascism. (I'm feverishly resisting stepping over the precipice into politics!) Science is improved by better science. I believe something to be true until I no longer have to - until I know, until I see. I respect anyone's RIGHT to believe, but I don't have to respect WHAT they believe. Notice, the more you know, the more you question; the less you know, the easier it is to be sure of your stupid, stupid beliefs.

I’ll tell you what’s behind those ideas. BELEEF. Who requires you to beleeve? The ideologue, the politician, the propagandist, the grifter, the charlatan, that’s who. The liar needs you to beleeve. Only the liar will preach the importance of beleeving above all else Belief has no place where truth is concerned.

I know. I’m a shameless opportunist when it comes to the use of “four crucified stupid.”

Not just stupid. Flat Earth stupid. No. Worse. Four crucified stupid - the stupidest.

I can count on you, Waysider.

To see as a child. To see as a child before cultural, political and religious conditioning. To see without judgement. To see without beleef. To see what actually is. So, to see purely, completely, serenely. To see everything with awe and wonder. This is real liberty and power. This is the new birth, again. But it may only come as a glimpse. Don't ask me how. I cannot say and I would not say. It can't be uttered. But we all had it once. (All without exception, or, if you prefer, all without distinction.) This can't happen while clutching, clinging, to dogmas, doctrines, presumptive conclusions and beleefs.

Ok. But isn't something required of you to be saved from the one who loves you? Isn't there something to do first before receiving this saving love? Conditions must be met, lest wrath come down upon thee!

It is not unconditional. The love comes once the conditions are met. I don't think TLC believes it's unconditional. Even poor victor didn't "teach" unconditional love.

Reading through Romans chapter 2 again - it's been awhile - and all I can say is, Wow! I wonder if victor paul wierwille, NaRd., ever read this chapter? I wonder if he had, could he have been persuaded to start obeying truth and stop defecating in its mouth?

Thanks, Charity, for answering my question. Saved from the wrath. Got it! Were all those passages (without exception or distinction) written to me, or are they merely for my learning? Would you please cite chapter and verse? I'd like to look at the context and examine the Greek from which the phrase "obey the truth" is rendered. Such a curious phrase, obey the truth. I suspect it's an awkward translation or else a figger of speech.

No idea, but I suspect it was a tremendous demonstration of desperate clutching and clinging to beleef.

Not a Real doctor

What a bittersweet song, Human!

“If it doesn’t fit, ya just gotta MAKE it fit.” — victor paul wierwille, NaRd.

"Good fun, good food, good fellowship, and GREAT Word!" Is GREAT Word TWI's answer to Loy's HOT Bible?

Saved from what?

Well, it depends on which gospel you read. Mark - a young man Matthew - an angel Luke - two men John - two angels For me, these differences are interesting, not problematic, but for inerrantists…well, there’s work to do! Victor paul wierwille would have you cross out the words and verses with the strongest manuscript attestation, perform lexical magic tricks by inventing brand new Greek grammar and definitions, and, ultimately, rewrite it all according to “the original.” And along the way he would conjure figgers of speech where none exist just for the mmmph factor. See, kids? Fits like a palsied hand in a bloody glove. Just tremendous!!

Except when it is. One of my favorite pericopes on doubt and belief is John 20: 19-29. Whoever wrote GJohn was writing against the Thomasine community. The author composes this scene intending to make a sound argument for believing without evidence: "Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” But, by my lights, the author of GJohn misses his mark and unintentionally proves the antithesis. Because Thomas doubted, because he investigated, he was the only disciple to touch the incorporeal resurrected body, the only disciple to whom Jesus vouchsafed this knowledge. Thomas saw. What he saw he surely could not unsee. The other disciples merely believed. A powerful, unintended lesson on how doubt and inquiry can lead to astonishing spiritual insight.

Gaslighting. Also, a convenient cop out for abusive charlatans like victor paul wierwille: "I can't help but to lie, cheat, steal and rape. It is my nature."

And Acts 13:34-37. He was raised from the dead, incorruptible, glorified, holy with a life more than abundant. Whatever the life, if Jesus was raised, is he dead? Which is the more valuable life? Which life is more desirable? The one subject to decay or the one that will never decay? What was sacrificed if Jesus is living gloriously and more than abundantly?

"..since Jesus is still alive and well, and leading and guiding us in perfect harmony w/ the Holy Spirit.." This is a conventional, even essential, Christian maxim, right? Even the pseudo-Christian charlatan, victor paul wierwille, "taught" Jesus is sitting, alive and well, at the right hand of the Father, right? Albeit, far, FAR away in a distant, inaccessible realm, hence his AND his Father's absence. If he is alive, he didn't die. Not REALLY. And if he didn't die, he wasn't sacrificed. What kind of payment is this if Jesus is still alive? It seems more like he just took a long weekend off. Genuine question: How does this work, theologically?

Thanks for doing this, WW. Looking forward to pages 3 and 4, or else an unbroken hyperlink to the file. Your post is especially timely, as Chris Geer's name has been showing up in my feed lately -- Invoked by survivors and current sycophants alike.