mj412

it would be no different than a 14 year old girl marrying a much older male. these cases often have to go to court and be heard by a outside party to be granted a license and not so many states even allow underage consent anymore. the thing that bothers you is the young boy with older man image, and of course we assume parents LOVE their children. I am not talking about allowing abuse no one is. if you do not think parents should have the right to sign off on underage children to marry it is a completly seperate issue that goes for girls and boy minors and nothing to do with sexuality. abuse can happen in any marriage YET flourishes without it as well! YOu think your going to stop sexual abuse by stopping homosexuals from being married? If a parent had evil motives of somhow allowing their child to be abused as you claim is your fear they certainly would NOT be asking the STATE for a license to do so they would just do it and hopefully found guilty of child abuse . You think with a over 50% divorce rate marriage fixes anything in our society? It doesnt. but what it does allow is for the laws and rights of the children to be protected and heard and that is my biggest reason to allow these families to be married. That and the spousal priviledges of social security and medical benefits, retirement etc.

my mother was married at fourteen . my sister thirteen. My other sister 17. all these marriages lasted longer than many "of age ""marriages. this perspective does happen to be what town you may live in as far as how "wrong" you may think it is. None of them were pregnate, but today that is the reason many "underage " marriages are allowed and they often must go to a judge for a third party to grant consent for the license. so the answer is then teen babies without a famly? I worked in one "red neck" lol town where every single teen had babies I said babies and to not have a child by the age of twenty was a strange weird thing .. it is normal today to have babies as a teen (did I say ok or best for anyone ?) but the president is addressing the "baby daddys" issue with encouraging marriage . should minors be having sex? well ya know ? fix that on another thread it is a seperate issue all together.

If I hear you your saying a same sex marriage will encourage sexual abuse betwen a minor child and an adult. that is your concern... Minor children can not marry adult or even have "consentual" sex by law with an adult(any person over 18) a 17 girl/boy can have consentual sex with a 18 year and agree to it and that 18 can and often is arrested for RAPE regardless of how the minor "feels" about the sex. A minor child does not have "the right" to consent to sex with any adult and any adult willing to engage in an act of sex with any minor regardless of circumstances can and often is aressed for statutory RAPE! If your concern is a minor childs parents giving consent to a homosexual marriage COME ON !! that is not in every state and a parent would of course consider the childs own sexuality first and as the other poster told the story of her daughter many homosexuals know they are homosexual from a very young age. WE assume in this country parents love their children. If that is your issue then take that particular law up with the states that allow parental consent for both homosexuals and hetrosexuals. so is the problem the fact parents can give consent to an underage marriage or the fact they are homosexual? Sexual abuse is going to happen it always has and always will, how does allowing two adult consenting to sex have any thing at all to do with sexual abuse? that is ONE HUGE LEAP and we as a people are so much wiser than to consider your reasoning. these are two seperate ideas and issues. open the door to these things by saying America "allows" same sex marriage? And your solution is that it is better to keep it in the dark and not ask for a legal definition or standard? homosexuality will not end just because they can not get married, and sexual abuse of minors will not end just because they can be married. I hear you saying If we do not allow homosexuals to marry it will make people think twice about being homosexuals ? I do not agree. Marriage is honored in our society in many ways ,(we all heard President Bush sing the merits ) Yet how does that IMPACT the number of people having sex without being marriage ? not much .

laleo you can agrue against gay marriage for what agruement? social stability? why would that fail or succeed any less in a gay marriage? Why can you sympathize against gay marriage? Is it because of bible laws? Well that would not hold up as fair considering the divorce rate amoung hetros either . I am serious wondering. what are you thinking? I think they should allow the legal rights of marriage to homosexuals , mostly for the children to have rights when they get divorced or die. for medical benefits and for social security for people with long standing relationships.. it just seems fair to me. Gods law can be seperate for so many laws we have in place today , I do not understand other than somehow you may think we can police how someone choses to obey the bible or not and we can all be a witness to how ugly that gets. I would not any part of that agenda anymore.

you know? Reality check! God says we are NOT to divorce other than having sex with another, the solution in this problem is to KILL the cheating spouse! If you want to Mix God in the marriage license business and approve of a lifestyle..hello! hetrosexual marriages fail and fall short amass. Gods says divorce is wrong wrong wrong , yet now allow the pages fly about how we live in GRACE ! and blah blah blah a double standard is in deep with that reasoning. people twist the scriptures to mean what works for them for example Husband of ONE WIFE, means ONE Wife not one wife and three ex wives hmmmm..now now yes but we live in grace will be the rebuttal yeah we do and I judge no one about what that may mean including the unpopular breaking of the law of homosexuality, to me it is the same , but many feel it must be different but it isnt written as such in the bible . God does not allow for divorce ,and has serious penalties for having sex with another within and without being legaly married,yet people sugar coat this with cultural acceptance, and attack homosexuality like it is a bigger sin than fornication, or cheating on your spouse .

why is this page so wide I have to move it to read it?

lol

i know people feel as if they are the ones on a mission from God and doing Gods work and it feeds many areas of the ego. Yet the bible clearly says it is God who gives the increase . Yes the question can be presented as to how can I learn if there is no one to teach me? I think clearly Jesus Christ says He is the authroity on being the Saviour of Mankind now and He sends the holy Spirit to teach Gods people all things.. If we are called before the foundation of earth was made to be children of God as the bible states how much "difference do you think pfal class made for HIM? not you and how exciting and feel good and powerful but God ? I was born again long before pfal , yet I have spoken to those who believe pfal was the link for them for finding God , yet many struggle a great deal with personal spirituality and are quite lost without the"keys" taught to them by a organization or man. I believe accepting Jesus as Saviour is not nearly as complicated or religious happening as many seem to think. It is a Father calling His children home simply without pretense of any one of His being gifted beyond any other. I think twi helped me in searching for the truth tho, I am still very thankful for the zeal of wanting bible knowledge I got from being involved. But I know the bible says God increases the body of Christ and His will be done and we are called before the foundation so if my life is on an island with a soccer ball God will find me and I will have the choice of accepting Jesus as Lord with out another person or a bible or the pfal class. I believe Gods Love is massive and He is more than able to find His children and save them to the utter most... that high feeling of being the great one for God by running the pfal was part of the cult mind set.. of belonging to something better , of being better, of people pleasing. clearly it was NOT a magic ticket to the kingdom as witness of the pfal grads who now deny or wonder about their own spirituality or if they are into the idea anymore.

If you have not spoken to people involved in twi or "felt" the need to run a class it is dificult to describe... when I went to classes I thought people were getting born again and recieving eternal life and that was a good thing for mandkind and serving.. I also admit to serving "leaders" somehow thinking God would love me more and give them more power or some ridiculas idea. today I think it was about building an empire of people power and manipulation of the masses for evil gain . I speak to my friend who is loving Twi and will for life and I truly believe he and his wife think they are serving the world by being "In the household" they do believe God loves them more than other christians , people are less than them in Gods eye and their own. so the fact they show up in the same space anyone eles does is "serving" them by correcting them and telling them how they are wrong in life mostly. hah it is very true it is a grandiose attitude of righteousness . they consider it loving God first and truly believe they are saving the world.. In a practical sense I did see people help one another out in my early years , babysit their children so they can take a class, fix the car so they could take a class , clean their house so a class could be run... etc... sponsor people for the corps... give a ride to a class and receive a reward for "undershaeparding".. I never saw anyone volunteer to love anyone just for loving someone.. in fact if someone had a problem or a need they were often condemed for such...or full and deep denial was involved in making sure only those with ears to hear knew about the situation... I would not recommend twi for a serving ministry they focus on education and "household obedience" more than helping mankind, but in their ideas it is the ultimate need of mankind to be able to be part of the household.. better for God you know than anyone eles.. I truly think they believe anyone who isnt part of the household deserves bad things to happen to them which to me is the opposite of serving another.

Mike what if your wrong? it isnt possible is it? cant be. and if a mistake happen it doesnt matter because it was not you it was your flesh... doesnt count. this is just frightening . We are to be accountable for one another in the body, I do not say to any body part "I have no need of you ". yet you do. you say they are not worthy . you sound very self righteous, the problem with this approach is no one will want to hear what your saying.. you can brag all you want on the numbers that read your posts but the POINT is what are they saying about your writings? it doesnt matter to you may say you just give the message but then BAM suddenly it does matter to you when you tell Zixar people listen to you more than him..... hmm which way is it? that is so twi, twist it all around of course your job is to give the message and save the souls your Godly. It does not matter if they believe it or not. Then say well look at me they read my posts far more than yours and it matters now!!!! as leverage of power.. hmmmm they read your posts but few go along with the program Mike. get real get honest.. for yourself . sure it is about attention.. negative or positive attention is attention... but really what is it you have accomplished? you may be doing harm , you could be wrong . does it even matter to you?

the Wizard of OZ is a story of growing up to me. of becoming your own person of finding yourself, of going through the "teen" years... no matter what age. In the end it is to be home again in your comfortable bed with those who have always loved you by your side wondering if your ok?? Dorothy tells about her journey to find her way back home (herself) and states" he and she and you where there all along but you couldnt have been, could you???? to me it the story of seperation and coming home to yourself. it is a masterpiece. for me it is a rich story about how difficult growing up can be.. and many found that path while in the way Ministry . It is better to grow up than to age. we like to think we are all brave pioneers going roads never before seen with risk and dare . YET those who had the most influence in our life those we trusted and loved growing up were really always with us on the inside helping us chose what path to take to find our own self. Home is where we long and love for and it is always and always will be about what is inside our own self.

lock the clutter post!!!! lock it down ! put it in its place be proactive! haha ok then.

?

Im ok working but have a job interview on monday that would be much better... thank you for your prayers. why did your post get locked?

happy birthday Mr. Strange .

yep people need to make the choice that is best for them. i also know a child that had a sever reaction to her shots and is very low functioning now. people do not think TB is in the Us and it is. I know the horror storys of parents trying to cope with polio . it is still alive in third world and we live in a global age I thin education is in order before you take the risk . either way you decide to go .

well now garth is in there but he cant see me it has the white page agin

explains everything Kit! thanks, just in the nick of time for happy holidays !

STOP IT !!! Im a christian girl and I want to be able to keep my sight !! I think im going to send out some extra christmas cards this year and get back in touch with some old guys I know who trashed their marriages in twi ... just in case your right.

oh no ! im single this could be bad ... oo geez are you sure it can get worse?? not funny Zixar not for where I stand anyway .

Well that was a drama .. sorry but it is the truth . I am serious about this cult stuff it is no joke to me ... people need to understand for some it isnt going to be a time in life you got over and can now live happily ever .. people im telling you some of us can not. the way impacted my life to the degree it did (not because of years involved) but because of the seriousness of the evil people I allowed to manipulate my life. in the name of bible research and fellowship. [This message was edited by mj412 on December 05, 2003 at 16:28.]

no not always ex. that would be nice. In my case i had serious life long consequences because of my involement in the way, that will never go away .. and has impacted my life and how I think and yes what I do. it always will unless I decide to run away from everyone I love or deny what happened happened which I cant do because then I would live a lie. I think in my case Im more paranoid than the average ex-wafer, who can laugh and say hey now I was in a cult but im good now. because i will have to answer to the life long consequences.. and in my case they are life long .. I cant get away from my "past" i can learn or change or move on but the reality of the damage done goes with me on a very persoanl level every single freaking day without fail.. that is my reality. that is why I want the return to happen as much as I do . I can not get away from this crap I can not and I am blamed for what happened and most do not even know ... the story. at Greasespot I find some relief because I can think I am not so freaking damaged as is told me to me on a daily level by those consequences but in the real world it is a heavy load few if any can or will understand.. that is why I still fellowship with those in. my friends still in are the only ones who freaking know what happened in my case and I can only share the pain with them.. so that is my sorry *** life.. i know you have shared your story of the motor coach , and im glad you do to help others. I tell ya ex mine is worse but not to lessen your pain.. mine is much worse in getting over the pain in fact it cant be done and that is why those who speak to me that still fellowship in the way give me any respect at all and I can and do shut their crap up real quick.. the price to to high tho. the price is and was and till the return my life. [This message was edited by mj412 on December 05, 2003 at 16:02.]

it will always get better!

George Aar what I did kind of has alot of say in who I am.

I know I am careful when I say cult because sometimes people think your NUT!!! go figure . the relationship realy begins to go down hill , at least it does for me. When I talk to my friends that are in I often hear lalalala instead of the words they are saying , sad but true lol . I have a hard time hearing what they say I dismiss them as insane and why would somone who has never even been sucked into hell and back not do the same thing if we so generously offer our history? my friend was also in a cult and we share stories his sounds like it was a nicer religous cult than mine .. so I think you must consider who and what power the person your telling about the cult has in your life, before deciding they will understand or not .