mj412

yet trefor how do ya know for sure?

I always thought that was what the offshoot stuff was all about ex-wafers pretending to still being in the cult! it works for many they enjoy it . it is to close to insanity with a bad picture reception for me tho.

also another couple where made fellowship coordinators and they had been gone at least five years and just returning back and the BC told me lots of people where coming back . I do not know if they had been marked and avoided tho ... or if they just went back. but then they did get M@A after I had left the second time I ran into them at an off shoot meeting. this is just to funny only a ex twi person could possibly understand what I just wrote. lol but it is true. lol life.

I have spoke to the current leaders in this area Oak . She and her husband profusely apologize for all the error of the past leadership and can go on and on about how mistakes where made and people got hurt and the wrongs that where done. too many still in know the actual truth of my scandal and so they really can not deny I was screeeewed by twi in a cover -up... yet it is always in a tone of them they go on about how the house must be kept clean and the problems are now gone. in the past there was problems you see but they were dealt with and they no longer belong in the household...it is clean and kept clean now ya see. ya right ha . so now they are perfect , even if mistakes where made you know with those "other people" that where in the same dam cult and no longer are. haha all the mistakes where made by folks no longer involved you see.. ha

maybe it is about not being orgainized but I went to Limb meeting a decade after being very seriously marked and avoided and It was never metioned. I went to fellowship I went to picnics I went to limb meeting and not just one ALL of the differnt groups around in this area and no one ever said anything to me , and some of the same people clearly where around when I was marked and avoided and atteneded the Limb when it was announced so they knew I was me I was not being sneaky or anything. although mnay more had since left . just last year I went to a way thing and was loved to death and I can and have at times telephoned the leaders. we often fight and agrue so I do not know how much longer that will fly cause I truly po a wife of the LC this last time and have not called since or plan to. but I was always welcomed or I thought . even after being marked and avoided publicly . call your limb leader and ask if your marked and avoided and what your status is if you really want to know. I never asked I just started going to a fellowship near my house. I spoke and introduced my self and I have the same name as always to the ordained clergy at the Limb meeting and I was asked if I was going to go to the rock a few months later and declined. I wonder what my status is now at headquaters! nah not really it would probably hurt my feelings if I called up and they said they didnt like me anymore or something.. this is a hoot something to think about. I know the other person involved in my scandal was also dammed and marked, I asked what that meant at the time and the LC said it "was much more serious trouble" I was never "dammed" by the way. but he called up HQ and spoke to whoever they could and put him though the old hold on and switching people routine and he never got any answers. I am to chicken to call myself. ha but true.

lol yep your cracking me up! I still get twinges of that mind in me. lol IM ok and clam up when Im really not gotta be strong in the Lord ya know! but it isnt funny it is freaking self destructive isnt it? I remember one of the last conversation I had with the LC that marked me , He screamed as we spoke of the situation and I asked him what he would do in my shoes. He said and I will never forget this it was the end of the game for me . 'WELL I WOULD JUST TELL GOD TO>>> calling all the shots as the mighty leader he was that even God heeded his command. I realized then I was not going to find a place in the way ministry when I softly said with so much sadness and sorrow knowing it was the end of all ends of my love in twi. I said I really am not in a position in my life to tell GOD what to do and/or how to do it but I will be sure to pray to HIm for an answer. I was marked two days later and cried for almost twenty years over it.

I have read the story of the guy who comminted suicide , that is a type of mental pressure the way may have generated over folks . but the thing is we did leave many of us did one way or another because the line just got to thick for life in and of itself to please the way. I tell ya I was nuts for a while after I got marked I thought people where in my apartment when I was not home like the LC and BC that marked me!! can you say they drove me NUTS????? paranoid afraid of what they were capable of doing??? mind games. I was in a mess... a real long reaching long lasting mess . and that is what it was mind games only. I think some would do just about anything at some point to please our thoughts our own minds on what what we wanted to believe was right or wrong to belong to the cult. but it was mostly just how we thought at the time. yes we could have been thrown out and that was such a big friggin deal and a honest threat for everyone nearly everyday . so every person had to get to the point the choice would no longer be twi or themselves. when I think of force I think of guns and knife and crime not the fact you may be asked to leave a small insignificant group of idiots in OHIO> sorry for the misunderstanding.

insurgent behind what exactly? heh I should scoop the cat box sound like more fun thanks.

I think people feel the pressure to conform in a cult . it is the word forced which to me implies a lack of other choices . other choices where available . so to me that is not forced . concerning the abortion part . but oh YEp yeah baby you can get kicked out I did and several others when they defied leadership consel. that is what twi turned into and that was the bottom line for everyone was it not ?

Tom no I suppose some would not imediately think of an abortion when taking pfal and learning about breath life, yet that was the reference given to those who sought consel regarding what to do with an unplanned pregnancy. I agree they never taught abortion , yet as often the case in twi the bible teachings are the standard of how to make a decision in life and the breath life teaching was taught to explain when life began. I understand what your saying about people going into the wow program and not understanding what the he11 the way ministry believed or even taught, many did go into the wow program gung ho for something they had no clue about!!! and got hurt . but I do not think at the corps level people were as ignorant they were involved to a maximum level and by that time jumping hoops and ponds heh for the way ministry and very aware of the outcomes of some of the leaders decision for others and wanted a piece of it. "sold out" remember? thank you for trying to explain to me tom strange it helped some. I have a problem with the term "forced" I do not believe anyone was forced to have an abortion if not for nothing the bottom line they could have left the program which is what many did opt to do. consequences and not being able to impress who ever you felt you should not with standing. At some point everyone on this site cracked and said Im leaving or I wont do it and were FORCED out I know I was. to me force is when they call a limb meeting and say she/he is no longer allowed to speak to you or attend any function with the way. But not in an abortion I do not believe anyone was M@A over the decision to have a abortion or not. to be labeled a less than believer for sure as clearly twi stand was pregnancy was not to be a issue in commintment to God or the organization. yes maybe the people pleasing trip took a hit if you defied somones consel on what they thought you should do and yes that may damage your rep in the group. but to say somone was forced to have an abortion or kicked out of the way ministry because they refused to get an abortion is an allegation I do not believe. I saw to many leave those programs and return later still trying to please their rulers . I personly was involved in a scandal and a cover up was protrayed to save a person reputation in the ministry . I was simply marked and avoided to make it all go away and to shut my mouth up about the facts I could prove. but an abortion is a medical procedure and ya know as much as I understand and I do understand the pressure to comply with what floated the boat , to say force was used is a little misleading . to say a person felt unable to go outside of the cult and seek different consel I would believe. due to mental inability at the time.

If this thread is some how morphed into a support group for those who feel victimized by a abortion and now feel a need for compassion and love in their regret and sorrow and I missed it . sorry in advance then. but as far as what old man started this thread about at what point is life a life and how and what twi taught concerning it was what was interesting to me .

ok explain this to me please Oak or anyone. I do not see the problem.. abortions happened alot we all agree , people were conseled to have abortions we all agree. Hope R. shared that LCM taught abortion was not murder in an advanced class in a previous post . VPW clearly taught breath life in the PFAL class. it was taught as Gods words and all good believers wanted and attempted to believe pfal. and/or teachings from the way. I understand what oldiesman is asking about at what point does a life become a life in other words if an abortion is approved of and the child could "take a breath" if given a chance and I wonder as well and would have liked to have heard some posts about that issue. that I understand but the fact abortion was given as an option and was even taught as a choice for woman in life without the consequence of sin (murder) was always pretty much a given and never changed . The part I do not understand is this and I need someone to explain clearly IF a person does not agree with what pfal taught as breath life and wanted to go into a program that the twi had for ITS FOLLOWERS (meaning its doctrine and leaders) why would they do it? Why would they seek consel from something they do not believe as truth? As I said before if it is about someone changing their mind about what they once thought and now do not well that happened to everyone about one thing or another. I see this as twi teaching something and then following through with its practical application in real life so naturaly abortions happened amass it was taught from day one that pregnancy was not a life. what is the problem then seriously? where is the wrongness or the lie or the evilness? not in whether abortion is correct for you or not it is a personal thing as I stated before between peole and their beliefs. But twi always taught it never claimed they didnt teach it and actualy helped others participate in its application... where did they lie about anything concerning this? if ya think abortion is wrong you do and you have every right. YET clearly twi never did and still does not and never claimed to believe such. So how can widespread abortions be such an outrage or shock to those who chose to listen to the teachings or consel?

right we thought we were God controlling everything in the universe! that is sad because ya know what if someone really did need another christian to love them through a hurt or a sorrow or just hard times.. people got to the point they were afraid to love one another when we needed one another the most.. sad really . because I think that is what Jesus Christ did best while working with his people and actualy asked us to Love one another as He loved us .

the one that I still struggle with is . Is it available? like it is already asumed if you said no YOU have a big problem . it made me co-dependent I tell ya it did haha . a answer was determined by who was asking it . because the why it may not be available was never good enough. today I use Can you ? Like can you please shut the door? "No I can not shut the door" ok then and life goes on with respect for one another. Instead of Is it available for you to shut the door? and now I better have a darn good reason why not (like my arm is falling off for example) or hear about my failure to believe I could shut the door.

I agree it was widespread and abortion was not something anyone thought was worth thinking about just a solution to a very common problem in the way. I know alot of people had sex and got pregnate we for the most part were all young and horny I know of many many affairs single married etc. It was widespread and everyone knew it I would think a tape of the YEAR or even decade would have been generated to stop the why the abortions where so rampant. sex is addressed clearly in the bible if not abortion... but NOOOO it was never really confronted as a big problem I think because if the way would have stopped all the sex and affairs happening in its hey day very few would have stuck around as long as they did.. seriously, it was that bad and accepted. maybe I saw it because I was single young and pretty but I tell ya the way ministry believers where some of the most sexualy active folks I have ever encountered in my life and proud of it and I think VPW and the cf and sex class encouraged such behaviours along with it is all grace and if you can handle it doctrine . What it surprising to me is the fact twi had always claimed the breath life doctrine as truth so to be aghast or even surprized at the suggestion abortion was an option for an unwanted pregnancy does not make sense to me at all. do I think they made the exodus teaching up to cover for their consel that an abortion is an option ? no I do not. but I think they took it to an extrememe measure without much intelligent or compassionate thought involved in many many cases. When LCM was talking about the teens having sex at the rock and that is a problem I busted a gut .. Im telling ya cant see the forest through the tree or what? so what has really changed I thought that now the off spring of this mess is repeating its very self??? started to get a little scary didnt it?

If your confused Rascal let me help you in any way I can . IM happy and glad you do not want me to leave and I understand it is just that Im not good enough to be read by you now. hmpf. Because I "make little sense" and" you find it difficult to respond" when asked for a specific facts concerning your accusasions of me which have been numerous on a very personal level. As far as your energy level and the "badgered" problem I am only responding to the posts written here that address me personly. you do not always have to end up a victim of some sort with every conversation if you do not chose to be. I will say your last post is written in a maner that is much clearer and to the topic and Im glad you where able to clarify your thoughts in such a way on this thread.

Rascal are you marking and avoiding me? done that already . I have no need to carry on in our rather pathetic discourse , but I wish you would at least clarify some of your attempts to discredit me and my respones in this thread with facts and specifics instead of just accusations and name calling. your not defending yourself against me the way I see it you do not want to defend yourself against what you say about me when called to be accountable for what you write . so you want me to just go away instead. It is called passive agression and I am not the least bit intimidated by the game anymore.

houseis a rocking where did that group think come from ? I do not think it was a man or a woman at the top they did indeed organize the group and allow a structure to form that flourished the ideas... But the twi used ego as its source.. A God like feeling of super power abilities was given in the mind of those who participated in the group and of course the more the heiarchy of power prevailed the more work and loyalty was invested in the group. the higher on the heiarchy the more powerful you became. I think people want power in this world and prestige and the ability to tell others. in short I think people want to play God in this world and twi gave them an areana to beat the band for it !

oh Rascal if you do not see the love for you on this thread you are in denial . that is what grease spot is -in my definition a large part of what grease spot is helping and supporting one another. is that now a bad thing for you? you scream as if it is. (FREINDS) as far as your accusation of me behaving "inapropriatY" do you care enough to be specific or is is just another general sweeping insult you notice and have a need to claim as truth for a group , like maybe perhaps . do you want to apologize to me for calling me a liar and being proved in error ? not needed at all but it may change the tide of your reality and what and how you write your posts . and as you accuse me of discrediting your contribution to this thread I would indeed ask you to show me exactly where I did that. be specific Rascal it helps.

my children are now at the age I was when I thought the way ministry had all the answers. my kids are educated and successful and independent people, leaders and able to accept and hold responsibility for themselves and others. yet Im sorry age brings a courage and wisdom youth just does not have yet. not ll but many of the people involved in the way when I was in had not even begun to grow up and realize what being a grown up was or is. twi just fell into the slot of wonder, niave and idealism of youth for many. but then some of us grew up . uhoh

I have no idea what people think do or believe Oak. I was referring to her statement about in which she used caps that she never using the word coward and calling me a liar and I being the one to use the word.. I showed her the post in which I was referring to in which she used the word coward. You also make thigs up or infer mistruth Oak in which post did I ever call Rascal a liar? ( I write this as an edit you put Mj and where adressing the above post to me that is why I answered personly I do not see the mj at the top now who are you speaking to Oak? ) hmmmmm. although Rascal has had a # of hissy fits concerning who or what I may think and invoked her friends and support system at me. not once have I said Rascal is a liar. although you claiming such will icite a mini riot of habit patterns of behaviour many use still today. Rascal has claimed: When facts are presented they are denied , slander and name calling and a questioning of the intregrity , yelling screaming and horror stories and twisting of the facts and name calling. having a group support that will rally around you and say your right and can not possibly be wrong just because they know ya and have met ya and that is all they need to know to attack and belittle the person and twist the facts, even those who have no idea what is going on will help your cause if the right names get involved. acccusations unfounded and refusal to address the orginal topic and instead twist the topic for their own gain and attention? not to metion the gossip and slander behind the scene. is that what happened to you? I bet it seriously did . it is how you and your group operated on this thread. to a tea. it is ugly and hurtful and your still doing it. im sorry this happened to you and efected your life so deeply. As for me If it looks and acts like a cult it just might still be one and your right it happenes. rule #1 I guess do not make the wrong leader ( I would use the word victim instead really) angry at ya Right? lol

The one about no condemation in christ Jesus kept my mouth shut for quite a few years as well as the fact a persons ministry could be ruined and you will be blamed and punished for it if you spoke "evil" , even if it was the honest truth of a brother or sister.

I think alot of things could have had more compassion and honest education when it came down to telling people what to do in life, abortion, divorce geez I know one couple that went for marriage conseling to adjust to the fact the wife had an affair with a leader and fell in love . to help all get used to the knew arrangement and marriage GEEEZ. this is the part I am confused about.. many of the biggest victims of bad consel sought consel to the max. I know of families who wouldnt pee without ten phone calls to make sure it was the right decision if you ask me they kind of asked for it and also encouraged folks to give advice and act as Lord over their life . not all but it was often a power play to tell someone you spoke with a who is who on the way tree personly about a matter . I never understood that part of how the way people thought. probably why I was M@A . hahaha

Being M@A got me out of a cult quite quickly to which I am thankful. no one would speak to me so I was not dragged into years of who was right or wrong and began a new life with gladness and Joy in knowing God and much love. I doubt I may have ever left if I had not been M@A. I do not know. Yet when I went back in after being gone a decade things were very clear on how it is not so much a person involved or one act of abuse or choice made in foolishness or error but a group mentality of oneness and power over others that give a sense of self rrighteousness and belonging to something big and powerful that was just so clearly a cult. that is true a person could have the choice to believe what the bible said was truth for them or what twi said was truth amd bottom line that is exactly why many got M@A and/ or left twi. that is not anything just about everyone at grease spot cafe has not experienced in various degrees. Rascal I will end my discussion with you as you can clearly read where you called the leaders in the way cowards from the above post. then accused me of lying about it . and no I disagree I do not think abortions were presented as a sacrafice to God in the way ministry. do I think consel was sought and given on what was taught in the way concerning breath life ? yes and that was a pregnancy was not a life until the child took took a breath. The corps program was all about making leaders in the way ministry and that is who you say you sought consel from regarding your pregnancy . Of course they will state what they believed was what the bible states as truth , and you bought it as truth or did it believing it was not the truth from the bible anyway and I am courious if that is the case then why? breath life was taught in the foundational class pfal .

yes that is the perfect answer for this question karm. true love I gave up true love, not for "the word" but for the way ministry . but i got it all back!!!! yes.