Hope R.

My leftovers have taken on a life of their own. I'm saving them because my daughter has a science project due in January.... Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Socksie - I was thinking about all those ECU guys who were actually in college right before TWI. I know Bob M. got his degree and was a math teacher for about 5 minutes, but not sure if any of those other dudes finished - like Duke or Ian M. for example. VP grabbed a lot of the 2nd & 3rd right out of college - he needed "leaders" to get more leaders. Kinda like a pyramid scheme in a way - wasn't it? I still haven't finished my bachelors, mostly because, even close to 50, I have no idea of what I want to be when I grow up. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Song - you da bomb! I didn't know JACK! Seaspray - huh? Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

I change my font size without the plus sign. I think the plus sign makes it bigger than the text you see here. Font size = 2size> That's just a plain 2, not +2 - plain 2 doesn't change anything. font size = 1size> should make the text smaller. The other thing I like to do is separate my responses at times with a That's (HR) with the usual greater-than and less-than symbols around it. It's easy for me to remember cuz it's my initials! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

I got my older daughter a bright red "keytar" on eBay! They're the funny little instruments from the 80's - they're keyboards that you hold like a guitar! Took a long time to find one - they haven't been made since 1987! Leave it to eBay! I got an XM Satellite Radio - which I really wanted - now I have to get it installed, but I'm gonna wait until after the Christmas return season dies down. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Wordwolf - Thank you so much for that Reader's Digest version of the Mike threads. I had been reading your other synopsis of his threads which you wrote a while back, but even they got too long for my short attention span! Song - I didn't mean to imply that the people who misspell are ignorant, wierd, creepy or stupid. I merely said that I personally have had trouble understanding some of the misspellings at times. Moi. Me. It's me oh Lord. Mea Culpa. It's my problem - not theirs. Do I mispell? Knot if eye kan help it... but sumtimes... Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

You can also site the scripture in Ecc 1:9 which reads: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." But c'mon - jot for jot, tittle for tittle use of words and teachings that have already been printed in someone else's work? It's not a matter of "no new thing". It's a matter of claiming something to be your original work that simply isn't. If VP's works had the same "look and feel" as say B.G. Leonard or J.E. Stiles' works - we may be able to come to the conclusion that he read them, formulated his own thoughts and opinions, did his own research, and then wrote it down. BUT IT'S WORD FOR WORD FOLKS! Check out some of John Juedes' publications. I don't agree with some of his methods, but facts are facts. Wierwille Borrows...A Challenge to the Originality of His Teaching on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" J. Juedes, Personal Freedom Outreach; (PFO) Journal, 1983, 3 pp Overviews the work of J.E. Stiles and prints Stiles' writings next to Wierwille's writings in parallel columns, showing VPW's plagiarism. Will the Real Author Please Stand Up? John Juedes & Jay Valusek. St. Louis: Personal Freedom Outreach, 1987. 48 pp, $2.00 Outlines V.P. Wierwille's use of transcribed sermons and other's writings to produce his books. Shows how VPW plagiarized at least 8 books by at least 3 authors. Prints plagiarized writings alongside VPW's writings for easy comparison. John was nice enough to send me these publications and they blew me away. I knew about the plagiarism - but didn't realize how exact the wording was, the emotions, the exclamations, the punctuation - every jot and tittle! I believe Dot (or someone like her!) posted much of the line-by-line comparisons a while back. I just don't see any comparison in reading other people's work and gleaning from it vs. copying word for word hunks of someone elses material, claiming it as your own, and saying God taught it to you. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Shaz - that is amazing. I know a couple of people who went to college to finish their degree on their interim year - with VP's permission and blessing, but never heard of anyone getting their degree while in residence. I also know of several staffers who took night classes somewhere near HQ's to get or finish their degrees - again, with the blessing of those in charge. Most of them ended up working in their field on staff. My favorite college story isn't mine. My old friend Donna B. earned many credits towards her law degree on the LIRR commuter train between her area of Long Island and her job in NYC. I thought it was so cool that some college offered that as an option. What a great use of commuter time! Someone was thinking! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

You talkin' about me, or Mike??? Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Song - according to Encarta: pe·dan·tic [ p? dántik ] adjective too concerned with formal rules and details: too concerned with what are thought to be correct rules and details, e.g. in language. I'll admit to that - too many years in TWI - but unimaginative? Naw... Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Plots - how refreshing to read what you wrote! I also think God is the "big banger", and believe he directed evolution until it was under control, and now, simply lurks. He gave man the ability to reason and expects us to use it without his interference. But that's another subject that, along with this one, belongs on the Doctrinal forum! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Oaks - we own our own business and it's harder for us to get away than some people who get a paid vacation from their employer! I don't think we've ever gone away as a family for more than 5 days at a time - which is why we fly everywhere we're headed. One of our last years in TWI, we took our kids on the Disney Cruise and were criticized for it because we didn't use that money to help pay down our mortgage! Vacations were supposed to be for Advanced classes, Word in Business (on Thanksgiving Weekend, of course), or, in the past, Corps Week and the Rock. I didn't mind the last one. For the most part, CW and ROA were fun in the 70's til the mid 80's. I got to see friends I hadn't seen for a while, and had a fun ROA "job". I didn't go much in the 90's - my kids were small, I didn't like LCM, it got old. Now, our obligations aren't as much to TWI as they are to our families. We don't live near either of our parents or brothers & sisters. Vacations other than family events have to be well planned - not spontaneous for us - because we don't have the luxury of the time off. Our trip to Vegas/Grand Canyon last summer was great - but I could have used another day there. I'm trying to figure out what we're going to do this Spring Break - but again, only for 4 or 5 days. Another vacation for me is when people come to visit US! I love it almost as much as going away. Anyone want to do a cruise together? We love them but have always said it would be fun to go with friends - especially those with kids the same ages as ours or close! Tis the season for booking them... Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Dearest Radar - I hope you're feeling better soon. When Paw was here, I was sick, too and still have a touch of it... snifffffffle. I am not at all cranky, but will get that way if Mike's threads end up on the "About the Way" forum, which states on the title page of the forums that: "This forum is for discussion about the Way International and its leadership" If your threads are about VP's teachings, please put them in the DOCTRINAL forum as Pawtucket has asked. In my P.I., the "About the Way" forum is that it is a DISCUSSION about TWI to help people see what went on in the past, and what is going on there now. It has helped many people get on with their lives after TWI and helped a few more make the decision to end their association with that organization. For example, I started a thread asking whether or not TWI interferred with people's college education. That doesn't have any scriptural reference in it, it doesn't require literal translations according to usage and you don't have to listen to VP's last teachings or even be a Christian to answer the poll! Might I suggest to Paw that he move the link to the Doctrinal forum higher on the forum title page in order for people to see it without having to scroll down. I don't have a problem with it as it is, but it seems that many people don't scroll down past what they see on their computer screens. Maybe that would help Mike and others who want to talk about the bible post there more often. I think a few people with large egos want to post their threads where they think the most people will read them. ;)--> Oh, and as far as spelling goes... I'm a bit pedantic (Zix, feel free to jump in at any time). Most of the time I can figure out what people are trying to say as long as their sentences are coherent. Sometime those who misspell aren't as clear as others, and it's not because of their errors in spelling, either. Naw - I'm not cranky - just b!tchy today, I guess. xoxoxo Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

A Grease Spot Christmas 'Twas the night before Christmas and through the Café Warm greetings and love were spread to the Ex-Way. The posters were quietly typing their views, And chatters gave (((hugs))) while the lurkers perused. The regulars sat at their keyboards and thought of something to post that would not come to naught. Perhaps getting others to ponder and pray if they should stay in or get out of The Way. While others discussed all the teachings they?ve had, and wondered if any were good or all bad. Some post quite light-heartedly stories and jokes - It?s a wonderful conglomeration of folks! There?s Wytedove and Oakspear, Kit Sober and Rocky, Abigail, Rafael, Shellon and Wacky, Littlehawk, Zixar, Excathie and Jim, And FreshAir (I wonder what?s become of him?) QQ may write things that need some explanation and Rocky rebuts him with utter frustration! Grizzy will growl when he disagrees but AnaFontana can put him at ease. RadarOReilly keeps threads from digressing, while Kit writes each poster a sweet birthday blessing. The Schwaigers words always get people to think, While Tom Tuttle?s postings can drive them to drink! And there?s dear Dot Matrix who posts everywhere and Krysillis always has something to share. Insurgent and Wayward are still in the Way and we all hope that they will get out someday. And dear old Pawtucket, our wonderful host Our appreciation to you is the most! For Grease Spot is not just a site we drop in It?s a place for us all to connect once again. And I hope that we are resolved in the new year to guide those still in The Way to find us here. So I pray you find happiness, love and delight, Merry Christmas to all ? and to all a goodnight! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color> [This message was edited by Hope R. on December 25, 2003 at 12:07.]

I see how this might be difficult. I dropped out of college to go into the Corps, but finished my associate degree afterward. Still haven't gotten my BA and may never get it! I think my kids have kept me busier than TWI at this point in my life! Oh well - if none of these apply, please post your particular situation. Thanks! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

This has probably been done before, but I was talking to another ex-way person and asked them if they'd finished college. They said no, and I asked if it was because of TWI and they said indirectly, yes. I started thinking about the early Corps - how many of them were in college when they got involved in TWI and how they either never finished, or never did anything with the degrees they earned. VP said something like The Corps was better than any college education anyone could get - that it was the University of Life (not the tapes - the actual Corps program). Later, after leaving or getting kicked out of TWI, these guys had no experience using the degrees they'd gone to school for, or hadn't finished earning them. A good job was a difficult thing to find for many of them. Fast foward 20 years... LCM, Howard, DEW and other trustee/cabinet kids were getting to be college-age. All of a sudden, at a Word in Business, LCM announced that it was important for young people to get a college education before going into the Way Corps. It would make them more well-rounded individuals, more able to communicate with people "in the world" or something like that. My question is... How many of you:

Of course, a few of us irreverent Sickth Corpse used to sing... "Hark the herald angels speak Glory to the new born FREAK..." (I'm sorry...) Then there was "Paul the apostle..." to the tune of "Frosty the Snowman" OMG - once, our fearless BC here in Tampa had our fellowship gather 'round the piano and sing those Way Carols together - I thought I was going to gag... Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Last I knew Wendy Fasting Cook and her husband Richard (both 6th Corpse) were still in TWI. That was only about 2 - 3 years ago. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Our girls were born into TWI but we never shoved it down their throats. I grew up Jewish so the magic of Santa Claus was lost on me! The way I felt about it, I'd rather have my kids know that dad and mom worked hard, took time to think about them and what they needed and wanted, and took the money they worked for and went out and bought them presents. That was my own take - TWI never influenced me on that one. But - we did tell them that Santa went to kids houses and if he saw lots of stuff under the tree, he'd just fill their stockings and go to the next house. Of course, their stockings were empty Christmas eve, but filled the next morning. Because I wasn't raised with Christmas, I always decorate my house to the max. One year, I found a beautiful angel for the top of my tree and was reproved by the BC for it. I grudgingly took it down and replaced it with a star and put the angel away. I can't find her anywhere. Went through all my Christmas stuff and she's not in any of the boxes. I'm going to have to go out and get a new one next year. One more story... Our neighbors, Roy & Shirley are an older British couple whose kids are grown. When the kids in our neck of the neighborhood were little, Roy used to dress up as Santa and come over with a present. When my oldest daughter was about 5 or 6 we had her answer the door for "Santa". When she heard him say "ho-ho-ho Merry Christmas!" with a British accent she got this disgusted look on her face and shouted, "That's not Santa, that's ROY!" I think that's when she figured out that Santa was not actually a real guy! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Everyone's advice here is good. Most of them have said not to go back and I couldn't agree more. Chwester's post is fabulous. Scroll up and read it again! One paragraph in particular really stuck out for me... TWI forgot about those two commandments many, many years ago when they put "the word" above all else, including God. "It's the WORD, the WORD and NOTHIN' but the WORD!" Remember that? It's nothing but "biblolatry" - idolatry of the bible. We got out in July of 2000. Someone who we'd known and respected for many years while in TWI gave us some good advice. He said to take a year or two off from any kind of religious activity. Get your family together, get your marriage together, take care of the things in your life you neglected because of TWI and then decide what you want to do about fellowshiping somewhere. Chwester said it - "God has put his hand of blessing on many ministries that dont believe exactly as you do(or as I do)." The world is wide open to you, don't return to the vomit of TWI. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

I'm the opposite of Rascal and similar to Wyteduv. I wanted to leave for many years but my husband didn't. I figured it was best to sit tight and wait rather than force him out when he didn't want to go. That way there'd be no regrets on his part and I couldn't be accused by him or TWI for "making" him leave. In other words, I wanted him to get out on his own terms not mine. I guess around 1990/1991 I finally saw the proverbial handwriting on the BRC wall. All our really good friends had left already. LCM was out of his "fog" and starting to scream again. Other ex-way leaders were sending us their tapes and newsletters. But, we had good people in our twig who I really loved, so I decided to try it a while longer. I thought maybe things could change. It was okay for a while. We were left alone to teach and run our twig the way we saw fit. In 1994 or 1995 - LCM started the homo rantings, the no-debt policy, dismissed all the corps who were married to non-corps, canned the Rock and the WOW program, demanded 3x weekly attendance to fellowships (not twigs anymore) and declared everything VP ever taught an "old wineskin". I had to go to his advanced class or I wouldn't be considered an advanced class grad anymore (huh?). Long story I've told before, but it was horrible. I came home and told hubby that when he was ready to leave, I'd be right behind him. I stopped listening to tapes. I stopped going to leaders meetings (until we were told we weren't good enough to be coordinating a fellowship anymore after 16 years of doing so). I pretty much stopped every TWI activity except going to fellowship 2x's a week and branch meetings once a month. I made other friends, became involved in other organizations like PTA. I was primed to leave, I'd cut my ties as much as possible. Then I discovered Trancechat through an ex-Way friend which was a great source of relief and release for me. Then Waydale appeared and it was only a matter of time. I thought hubby would want out right after the owner of Waydale filed the first lawsuit. But no, he wanted to help. He wrote Rosalie his infamous letter. Instead of being thanked for his concern and desire to help, we were kicked out. The scales fell from hubby's eyes. I couldn't have been happier. It took from 1995 to 2000 to get from the point when I desperately wanted to leave to the point when we actually got the boot. Those were a very tense 5 years, but I'm glad I waited and waded through them. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Anyone watch it? What did you think? The acting is fabulous. I'm still a bit squeamish about some of the more explicit homosexual scenes and felt some weren't necessary. Other than that, I'm looking forward to the rest of the story. I know Roy Cohen was a real person, but wonder if the Ethel Rosenberg story is based on fact... Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

Tom, not yet - but I'll check them out...sounds like fun! I have a feeling they're much more civil than the these forums have been lately... Any word on when 6FU is coming back? I'll be watching the "Angels in America" 2 parter. I've seen too many ads for it not to! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>color>

I think management will bring Lodz back as well - but who dies to bring him back? Probably some roustie. Oh, and management will leave him blind, of course. Don't know about Iris and Justin - I think they're siblings and that there's a bit of incest going on. When oh when does "Six Feet Under" start again? After Carnivale, the Fischer family is going to look quite sane! Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>color>

I read it, Rafe - and was disappointed that Jackson chose to leave out Tolkien's ending chapters including "The Scouring of the Shire". I think the comment he made was he never liked the way the book ended anyway, so he didn't want to put it in the movie either. Therefore, Saurman's death at the hand of Wormtongue had to be omitted or re-written. Hope R. color>size>face> What a long, strange trip it's been!size>color>