Hope R.

Shazzy... "If ever you are tempted to live a life of sin, Then come on down to my house, and I will let you in!" We changed the words to "He Arose" when a bunch of us were at the Way Texas farm and it had rained and rained for days: "Up from the mud we arose With cu-cum-bers stuck between our toes!" There were more - Joe Maestri used to change the words of a lot of Way Prod songs - I can't think of any right now - but they were hysterical. Oh - one of them was a song that had the lyric: run thru a troop and leap over a wall. He changed it to: "step in some poop and slide into a wall". What fun!

"It's not by works, Maggie Muggins It's not by works, It's not by works, that you are saved".... And Robin A. dancing around looking like a gd fool! I used to CRINGE! And though I adored Brian B's music, talent and performances - puleeze - "my country tis of thee sweet land of liberty O say can you see what's goin' on?" EEK Anything contrived was usually awful - and believe me, I wrote some of them, so I know how bad they were. For me, it was easy to tell what songs came from the gut and what was written upon request. Even the best writers/performers (IMO) in TWI wrote some pretty bad lyrics every now and then. They were mostly songs about the PFAL class, or some VPW/LCM catch-phrase that was going around at the time. Socks - remember when all our lyrics were scrutinized? I wrote a song I was proud of, and someone who knew nothing about music or poetry or heart took it apart - ruined the rhyme and the rhythm - all for the sake of accuracy!!! EEEEK again!

Okay - here's my TWI "organized fun" story... We had a Christmas, oops, I mean HoHo party at our house for the folks in our fellowship. It became a ministry function because our FC, who was also the BC, scheduled the whole night! Okay -everyone arrives at 7:00 pm - for 30 minutes we'll have some food, then for 15 minutes we'll get together and sing Ho Ho songs (ya know, the TWI yucky ones), then we'll exchange gifts (they weren't purchased gifts, but things like "dinner at our house followed by your favorite video)... then we'll break for 30 more minutes for food again - and then we'll all play a board game for one hour. Then we'll go home. No sponteneity whatsoever. No room for anything else to occur. God is in the details, people! Oh, and new people were invited, but they had to follow the schedule, too. We never hosted one of those again. Who needs that kind of "fun"?

JT - yeah - "difficult" was one of those all inclusive labels used for anyone who asked too many questions. Freaky - didn't hear "bad seed" thrown about too much as a label - it was a more spiritual term - especially when they were talking about a kid. Wayward - I think the whole "rebellious" label is really more of a TWI 2 term. It got bandied around a lot in the last 10 years of TWI - especially after the homo purge. Oooo - slothful! I forgot about that one. I think everyone who missed a meeting, didn't go to a class or a witnessing night was considered slothful! Yeah - leaders were moved around because of their reputations, too. We had a BC come here a few years back who everyone said was just a great person when he was a staffer. I don't know what I was expecting - but - as my teenager would say - what a loser! So not all the info was reliable - especially when it was about a leader.

Not titles - like "reverend" or "Way Corps" or "twig leader" - but descriptive terms attributed to certain people - some good, but mostly bad. If you left TWI in the 70's and early 80's - you were "tripped-out". In later years, you were a "cop-out". Someone who repeatedly questioned leadership was a "troublemaker". If you got things wrong while setting up for a meeting or running a class you were a "screw-up". If your behavior didn't fit in to the TWI mold, you were spiritually "suspect". Those labels were attached to a person's reputation and, most of the time, they stayed there. They were passed on from leader to leader, especially if that person stayed in the same area year after year. Sometimes, the only way a person might be able to overcome a label was to move away from their area and start fresh. I remember a wonderful guy who moved to S. Florida about the same time I got there. One of the funniest, kindest, nicest guys I've ever known. Well, the leadership from his old area found out where he'd gone and called his new leader to tell them what a screw-up he was. He told them stories about what he'd done in his old area, etc. The guy had been in S. Fla. long enough to show how wonderful he was - so the new leaders (remarkably) ignored the previous one. But - had my friend's reputation followed him directly from his old town - it may have been much harder for him to fit into the twig at the time. There were a lot of people labeled by leadership in a mostly negative way. Some of them started to believe they came by it honestly - even though it may have been one incident that created that impression - they were stuck with it.

Yeah - but then they wouldn't know you were a cop-out!!! Now there's another topic... TWI Labels - not just Corps, Twig Leader, etc. - but descriptive terms used about people like "trouble-maker", "cop-out", "disciple". Hmmmm. Okay - I'll start it...

I'm assuming you mean TWI as it is today. I wouldn't return under any circumstances, but I do know people who would gladly go back to the "good old days" of holy kisses and cookies after twig. I also think that those who believe that God moved in TWI in the early days would return to that type of ministry as well. But as TWI stands now - I no no one who has left over the past few years who would go back in. Unless, of course, they were insane!

A few years after "the fog", I recall that an ex-Way clergy wanted to buy a slew of blue books for the students in a class he was teaching - which was more than likely a PFAL knock-off. We were still in at the time. We were told that TWI legally had to sell the books to him, but there was no law on how long it took to fulfill the order. Fast-foward a few years - we're still in. I bought Mrs. W's book. An ex-Way friend of mine wanted a copy. When I asked my fearless leader if I could get another one as a gift, he wanted to know who it was for. Don't remember what I told him, but I ended up not ordering one. It wasn't worth the scrutiny. BTW - I would still like a copy of Mrs. Owens' book. I really liked her and would love to see the pics and hear her story. I doubt I can get one from TWI. Any of you innies that can purchase one for me - I'd appreciate it - but you might be "suspect" for doing so.

OM - thanks. Glad you called and confirmed. Did they ask you for your name? Where you lived? Your current TWI status? Just curious. Did you happen to also ask when this policy came about? Just wondering...

I know it's been addressed by others, but you really should have let this person know that LCM is still spiritually in charge of TWI. Even though he is no longer physically there, the teaching of his classes, the selling of his books and the continued adherence to his "present truth" have not changed. LCM is not old news - he is a current force in the doctrinal and practical operation of TWI today. Ask him whether or not his leadership would approve of his contact with you, or his reading of your site. Did you recommend that he also look at Grease Spot to see personal, current incidents from recently removed followers? I would. He needs to know that your site isn't the only one on the internet that reveals accurate information about the "real" TWI.

Whoever said that the critics were usually just as bad as those they were judging and were mostly misinformed was my take on it, too. Most critics of TWI either hadn't ever been involved or had only been involved for a class or two - never really "sold out" like many of us were. That fact didn't hold much credibility with me either. Even in the last years I was in - I laughted when I went to the internet and saw that there was an article on an ex-Way site about the "Corps Gun Training" - which really was the same Kansas Safe Hunters Course that the 4H kids took along side of us! IT was such a stupid thing to bring up, IMO. Even though I was sick and tired of TWI by the time I read that - that site lost all it's credibility for me because #1 - it was old, old, old news; #2 - it was ridiculously exaggerated and sensationalized and #3 - I knew it wasn't true. After PoP - the critics were ex-Wayfers - those leaders who (mostly) had an ax to grind. Their opinions were tainted as well. It was when people who had stuck around started confirming that what I had seen and felt wasn't wrong, crazy or "off the word" that I started listening. I think it took someone who had "been there, done that" to open my eyes a bit wider than they had been. P.S. dmiller - don't forget about Shemp!

Tommy(canyouhearme?) - Sorry - that won't do - you'll have to read the first three books before you're allowed to see the movies!!! ;)--> ;)--> ;)-->

Cindy, we waited, too. Then we asked one of the ushers who was waiting patiently to clean the theater if there was anything at the end of the credits! They told us there wasn't - so we left. I wondered whether they told us the truth or just said that to get us out of there - glad they didn't lie!

No excuse will be needed. It will become "the present truth". The Father will reveal to whoever is spiritually in-charge at HQ's that it's now time to go back to basics, to PFAL, to the "original will of God" - or some other BS like that. Hey - I was in for a long time - I can almost hear it! Ugh.

Just got home from the film! Wonderful - absolutely the best. No important detail was missed, and the ones left out weren't all that necessary for the story. Great special effects - the Hippogriff is amazing. I would have liked to have seen more Quidditch, and more of Dumbledore, but that's just my preference. I think the kids have become much better actors since they made the "Sorcerer's Stone". I'm not sure Richard Harris' shoes were adequately filled. I'll have to see it again. I won't say more until more have seen it and commented. I don't want to spoil it for anyone any more than I may have already. There was a power failure about 1/3 of the way into the movie - lasted about 10 minutes. We complained and got passes to go again - any time, any film, any day. I was po'd about the break, but glad the theater made it right.

OM - I know three women who had abortions our FIRST year in-rez, and two who had them the last year - oh, and one on her interim. Our last year, I know of a woman in our "younger" Corps who got pregnant during her first year, left the Corps and had her baby. I don't know what became of either of them. I'm almost certain that most of the abortions that were done while I was in-rez were all ordered and paid for by TWI. The only exception I know of was when the woman paid for it herself. The Corps Coor. knew it and she was driven to a women's clinic in another city by a fellow Corps member. How do I know? Well, it wasn't announced, that's for sure. The women TOLD me. They were friends, sisters, looking for a shoulder to cry on or someone to validate what they'd done was the right thing to do. I don't recall what I said to most of them, but I know that, at the time, I probably told them they'd be just fine because they'd done the right thing and stayed in the Corps. Of course, I'd take back every word of it now - hindsight is always 20/20. Catcup, Alfakat, or anyone else who was there probably knew about some of these situations and others that I may not know about. But the incidents I heard about weren't a case of rumor or supposition - they were first hand.

I think "The Day After" was more realistic than "The Day After Tomorrow" could ever be!

Got tickets in advance on Fandango. Taking the 13 year old tomorrow morning!!!! I've heard this is very different than the first 2 films. Heck - Hermione is wearing JEANS in some of the previews. I've also heard it's shorter - and more is left out. But J.K. Rowling said that the director left all the important parts in the movie and that those who have read the book will be pleased! I'm just WILD about Harry!!!

Wayward was correct about TWI's teaching on breath-life. The teaching about abortion was never taught from a pulpit in the early years. It was word of mouth for the most part - or a grad night subject - after the teaching! (sorta like that Romans 14 teaching about condemnation & sin). It took LCM to make it very, very public. In segment 10 of the WAP class "The Human Body" he teaches that: "...God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life. He would not be considered a living soul until the breath of life went into operation." He also states that an unborn fetus is life in the woman's body, much like an arm or a leg - it's an appendage of the human body - attached. There is no life until that child is born and breathes on its own. It isn't in the syllabus - but I remember him prefacing this teaching with a statement that basically said that abortion was not murder. Having said that - I agree with whoever said that abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion. There is a difference. To you men who are discussing this - your experience is quite limited. Having been pregnant twice, I can assure you that in the 3rd or 4th month of pregnancy, when a baby starts moving around and kicking your insides - you know it's alive! That baby would not be viable if it was born at that time whether you call it mis-carriage or premature birth (aren't they the same thing, really?). When that fetus starts moving around it's telling you "I'm alive! I'll be there soon!" It's when a baby STOPS moving that a woman starts to be concerned that the baby has died in her womb. Why? Because there is no sign of life! So - do we say that a fetus is alive when it starts moving? Or breathing? I think it's very personal and only the woman can determine what her choice will be. Not me, not you, not LCM or VPW, George W. Bush or the Pope.

Okay - I'll be honest. I miss Corps Week and the Rock of Ages. Not because of the events or the teachings or the music - but because I could pretty much be guaranteed that I would see my old friends at least once a year because of those events. It was a way to catch up, keep in touch, and have a few good laughs. I'd make a mental list of everyone I wanted to see and make sure that in those 2 weeks I'd get to spend a bit of time with them - or more. I have more fond memories of HQ's in the summer than I do about any other experience in TWI. Summer School was always fun, too - hilarious things went on those summers I was there. But - I was a teenager - free to do whatever I wanted to without a care in the world. Maybe that's why I remember them so fondly!

Outyougo! Speak for yourself! The only "top" leaders we had around Tampa were the Guiles and the Moneyhands - and that was only the last 4 years before we got the boot. Prior to that we had what I consdered to be one of the worst examples of "leadership" possible! You must have blocked them out! I stuck around because I didn't want you to get the boot because of me and my big mouth. Thank Gawd for the internet. An old ex-way friend told me about Trancechat. The first night I found it I think I stayed up all night reading the archives. It was like someone opened up a window and let me see that ex-Way folks hadn't become Grease Spots! Then came Waydale and the rest is history. I knew we were going to get the boot sooner or later because of LCM's mortgage debt doctrine - but the first law suit sorta sped things up and we got booted within a few months of the initial announcement that LCM was stepping down. When Mr. Guiles kicked us out that night - I couldn't have been more relieved. I think I said "Thank God" out loud. He looked at me funny and I said something like - "I've been wanting to get out for YEARS!" and I think I also told him I'd been on the internet and that I'd used a pseudonym. When I told him the name I used -- he sorta did a double take. I was surprised at his reaction because I know they didn't have internet access at the time. Maybe he'd read Waydale at the Grand Poobah of Florida's house - who knows? Back to the original question: Why did you stay? I stayed because I love my husband and wouldn't allow TWI to influence our relationship. But I prayed. And, get this - I prayed almost every day that LCM would do something so stupid that even John wouldn't be able to rationalize his actions. Don't know if it was God answering my prayer - I doubt it. But I think God had a hand in the way LCM went down. How the mighty have fallen....

Cowgirl - I'm not saying I disagree with or doubt your recollection. Not at all! I was just thinking that he probably thought it was pretty clever because he used it over and over and over and over again whenever he thought it was appropriate. I know I heard it more than once and only took the "Believers' Family" class one time (thank God).

GeorgeStGeorge - I agree that the dumbest thing LCM ever did was to put the Corps on full time Waypay. The action wasn't thought through, the consequences were totally ignored. Prefacing the sentence with "the Father told me..." was the only thing he needed to say to get the troops behind him, no matter how stupid they thought the idea may have been. The MOG said it - that settles it. When I think of how many people gave up good careers (not just jobs - careers!), businesses, homes, moved away from relatives and jerked their kids out of their familiar surroundings to "go full time Corps" because "the father told me..." - it just makes me more convinced that IMO - TWI is a cult. Cowgirl - I don't remember the "break class" one-liner being used strictly in a confrontational situation - I think he used it in any teaching where a person might be up against something and had to "break glass" to get through it. Whoever said that it referred to the basketball goal breaking sort of brought that back to mind. That's what I seem to recall, anyway. I think one of the dumbest things he said wasn't just a one liner - it was his speech in general. I think his use of vocabulary to make others think he was some kind of super-human Dictionary/Thesaurus was ridiculous. I will say that in my younger years, I did have to look up some of the words he used, which wasn't such a bad thing because at least I did learn something! Anyone recall his over-usage of the word "icon" in the mid 90's? Drove me nuts - and sometimes it was the wrong word to use all together! He got stuck on some new word he'd learned and beat it to death (the word "tenacity" comes to mind). It was almost like he over-used words to make sure that he understood what they meant!

"If you only give 9% then God won't spit in your direction!" That was in the early 90's. It's on a tape because that's where I heard it. Another stupid quote is the "go until you break glass" one-liner which I never understood.

I remember the "Uncle Howard" thing from when i went to the Advanced Class in October of 1995. It was wierd. Creepy, actually. I don't think it sat with too many people very well - so it didn't catch on. Wonder why we didn't call Ermal Owens "Uncle Ermal"??? He was our "uncle" about as much as Harry was! I also remember when LCM got his first perm and a bunch of Corps guys got one, too. They all looked like a white version of the cast of "What's Happening". It was sad, really sad.