BecomingMe

Yeah, my traumatized a$$ wants to come "home"...how many of you got these?!

On the remnant discussion, something I think is relevant: I can't comment on Biblical significance or anything like that. But I will tell you LCM is practiced at constant rationalization. When he left / was kicked out / whatever you want to call it, I watched him rationalize his situation over and over and over again. It made me look at what he taught differently: if he has this mindset of rationalization, how much of what he taught that he thought was Godly really came from his using rationalization to make himself feel better? The BIG one (for me) is abortion: if he needed women to get abortions to hide his infidelity, how could he make it Godly? By rationalizing it Biblically. Adultery? When it's printed that way in the King James, it should be more "accurately" translated "idolatry." It goes on and on. How much of his doctrine is more about his lack of mental health than it is about genuine inspiration? My guess is: a LOT. So, as to the remnant, it's my thought that it's just another rationalization for his behavior (marking and avoiding so many people) and for the situation (people leaving TWI in droves in the late 80s). It's how he dealt with the cognitive dissonance and the pain of so many people leaving. Thoughts?

I believe his "new" group has "remnant" in the name. It's one of his justifications for his actions...he's really really really good at rationalizing. He was a trainer at Bally's for a little while a couple years after he left. He worked at UPS slinging boxes for about 10 years, and was a cart boy at Home Depot for a couple years too.

chockfull, hi! Thanks for the reply :D If we saw each other in Founder's Hall and it was about 2002, I was definitely wanting to escape and had no idea how! I love your weird question! It's very insightful...I have some horrible memories about pets...we had outdoor cats that we'd feed that lived in the Way Woods. And, as cats do when they roam free, they'd get into sticky situations and not come back. One got stepped on by a clergy guy staying in one of the guest rooms attached to the house, and she died. I was little...so why do I know this detail about how she died!? Another time, one of the cats had kittens, and the maintenance guy set up a box where we fed them (I'm sure he was directed to) and shot them when they went into the box...I happened upon the box and freaked out (understandably). I must have been about 5. :( We also had a dog for several years that Chris Geer gave us. Chocolate brown German Shorthair named Zula. She was the sweetest thing. She was super anxious - she'd chew the logs on the wall at night. Dad hated her. He never was much of a pet person, but after the whole Passing of the Patriarch thing...he just kind of stayed away from her. Eventually she lived out her days in a kennel. I remember her just disappearing one day and that was that. So, not really a "normal" relationship to pets in my house.

Stayed Too Long, thank you for writing this. I can only imagine the trauma of M&A. It had to be intense. As for me, my mental health has improved immensely over the last year or two. I have some tough stuff going on in my life at the moment, and tonight a friend asked me, "But is your mental health OK?" And I could honestly say, "Yes." That felt really good. I'm so grateful to be OK.

Thanks for the kind words, Twinky. To answer your questions above -- yes, I still visit mom there, and it's surreal to go there. I'm pretty much fine if we keep to ourselves. A few years ago, I went briefly into the OSC when people were there picking up meals. Familiar faces....people started saying hi and bless you and love you...and I had a panic attack and had to get out of there asap. I think the hardest part with my dad is that he's my dad -- what I mean by that is that I have some father-daughter memories that are pretty sweet; I have the father-daughter biological attachment and emotional attachment. I haven't yet been able to leave him completely behind because, in spite of everything, I love him. He's my dad. Anyway, thanks for your understanding and kindness. I value them quite a lot. <3

YES, cman!!!!! I totally agree. And when I thought I had worked out most of the "doctrinal" stuff, there was a whole layer of psychological bull$!*% left along with a thick layer of trauma reactions. I'm trying to come to peace with the idea that I may never be done.

Awww, Rocky....although I didn't think of how unfortunate the initials would be....

Oldiesman, ask away. I'm curious what people want to know, what it will jog in my memory. PM or here is fine.

WordWolf, I appreciate it very much. And Rocky, you've made that so clear by your compassion and kindness. :)

Stayed Too Long, I do understand your skepticism, and I’m grateful to Rocky for speaking up on my behalf. I welcome private messages from anyone who is still skeptical. You asked why I’ve waited so long to speak up. For years, I was so afraid to. Dad’s perspective on the internet and sites like Greasespot being fiery darts lodged itself in my brain and was hard to fight for awhile. After that, I was afraid news of my writing here would get back to my mom, with whom I still have a relationship I would like to maintain. Another factor you may not have considered is that this is my family being written about, so it feels pretty personal. But the basic answer here is trauma. I’ve grappled with one traumatic memory after another, one trauma reaction after another. So it’s taken me a minute to be ready to show up.

There's a lot to respond to here, and I probably will repeat others / miss stuff... One thought that comes up from several is basically the idea that he should be respected, or that he helped some people, or that he wasn't all "that" bad. I definitely respect each individual's personal experiences and opinions. AND his overall presence in the world, in my opinion, has been a net negative. He was a victim of VPW's, yes. And he was also a villain/perpetrator/predator to many, many others. I know this is harsh, and I hope I don’t offend anyone too deeply, but he doesn’t deserve anyone’s admiration or respect. He was/is a cult leader that took advantage of people over and over again. Did he do some good? Yes. But it’s overshadowed by the — at best — delusional decisions he made about people’s lives, livelihoods, families, social lives, personal wellbeing, their bodies, their choices…the list goes on and on. I think of all the points here this is the hot-button one for me, so my personal experience perhaps clouds my judgement. But I also think my personal experience informs my judgement here in a way others don’t have access to — meaning, I know what kind of a person he was/is. WordWolf, you mentioned that those listening to him now are probably over 50 and are responsible for their own thoughts and beliefs. Thank you for that perspective; you’re right, I think (hope?), although I do think brainwashing is real and more powerful than popular opinion sees it as. Another question that comes up is whether he really believes his stuff or is just a con man. He believes it wholeheartedly. Always has, and I think always will. I think that in itself is a “reason” he continues on with teaching. He believes it’s God’s will.

Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can... Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site. Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime? As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille. He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time. What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3

Well, the first 12 minutes hit the nail on the head. Sheesh. Thanks for posting, Rocky. I’m gonna do my best to get thru it all.

DWBH, what can I say? Thank you SO much for the love and your comments. I can’t quite find the words to tell you all how much I appreciate being welcome here. To answer a couple comments - I have 4 therapists and am on a battery of meds. I’ve been doing this latest round of hard work with said therapists for a year and a half. I think what has discouraged me is how deep the injuries go into my subconscious mind. But I am and will continue working. Being ME here is a big step I’ve wanted to take for years. Thanks again for the comfort <3