Taxidev

Yes, that was it. He accepted my friend request today so I could see it all.

This is disgusting! It churns my stomach to read this. To think I was impressed at all the work VPW put into this book...

I read much of one interchange in those comments, particularly between you and Michael. That was interesting. I don't know about anyone else here, but when you share history from your first-hand view, I really appreciate it, even though at times I am appalled by it.

That's quite a list! It has done NOTHING to help clarify, for me, whether salvation is permanent or not. It looks, at first look, that it can go either way. And so... I agree with WordWolf. Now to try to determine what those different things are.

I wasn't at HQ, but my understanding was that because Craig was extremely homophobic, he may have determined that himself, as a way of fending off potential homosexuals from entering the ranks - let it be known right up front TWI doesn't accept that stuff. As many resources as I have looked at over the years, I have never seen even a hint of this interpretation of Gen 3 anywhere. And what we on the field were told as to why it was removed from the next version of the class was that it was too much for new people to handle. But I suspect it was because Rosie and her girlfriend didn't want it there.

I'm on his page now, and I don't see it. I scrolled all the way back to 2016. Maybe the whole thread was deleted?

The FB link seems to be broken.

More like a condescending preaching.

I actually met Craig once, at a word in business special in Dallas, TX. He's really tall! I guess his body needs to be that big to house all that ego.

Or if anyone wants to read Martin's work directly, here is the link.

Could be a comic tragedy.

I meant in person. Sorry, I left that qualifier out. But I do understand that all of his collaterals, his other books, and that one class is plenty of exposure.

Perfect.

I was recently doing a study on the tithe, and came across some works by Ernest L Martin. For anyone who is not acquainted with his work, you can find his name in "JCOPS". He isn't actually cited there, but at least he's in the bibliography. I think I've mentioned this somewhere here at GSC before. But, I just remembered hearing in a class - I can't remember if VP or Craig was the teacher - something to the effect of "through computers and astronomy we have determined the exact date of the birth of Jesus Christ". Not an actual quote. I was thinking the phraseology implied that TWI determined this, and that is exactly what I had thought when I first heard this. Now I find it was actually Ernest Martin who figured this out, and published his findings quite a while before TWI put it in a class. Does anyone else remember hearing this concept in a class?

I'm inclined to think it's a combination of these two lines of thought. Not within a particular individual, but among the individuals, some one way and some the other. But it's difficult to determine who goes which way. Either way, to blindly vomit out what VP vomited doesn't do good for others, or themselves. They have been continuing to hold VP on a pedestal, declaring how they loved this teaching, or that teaching, or how they miss hearing such and such. I feel fortunate that I wasn't exposed to him.

What is MS?

I would have thought it was to have the life of Jesus presented before the life of Paul, since that was the actual sequence.

Can someone explain this: Under my user name in my posts, I see the phrase "Thinks Raf is a weatherman" and under that is 4 dots. How does that get there? And what do the dots signify? The other information I understand.

sky, what a crystal clear picture you have drawn with these words. I believe this paragraph, more than anything else I have seen here at GSC concerning the R&R group founders, explains the response we received to my email of issues from some of you here. All I can do is hang my head, shaking it lightly, in utter disappointment. I have many friends involved with them. I am not actually involved, but I do listen to the phone teachings. My interest in them is severely diminished. "Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails." Yes, they all seem to be doing that, including my friends.

OMG!!!

And how is this related to Paul?

That is a really great catch - I didn't see it. Thank you!

I just read most of them. Insanity on steroids is an appropriate name. While I did experience the dining room rules when I was at the advanced class, I really didn't think much of it. But reading it a moment ago I was thinking how completely anal and absurd it all was! I can't put my napkin on my lap until the table coordinator does?!?!

So, do you think the answer to the question "Can salvation be lost?" can be something besides yes or no?

Yes, but TLC and I were looking at Paul's writings, which didn't have it. Only 1 Peter 1:23. I know, that's not Paul either, but Romans is where I had begun my search, since that is Paul.