rrobs

I think I can understand you to some small degree. But you are right I don't understand you very well. I don't think any of our interactions have been conducive to understand. I'm not blaming you. Your not the only one in the said interaction. I was right in their with you. Romans 2:1 applies to me also! In any case, it is obvious a lot of people got hurt and I don't like seeing people getting hurt any more than the next guy. Now I have to tell my life story (very abbreviated, don't worry) so you can understand me a little. I'd be interested in your life story (abbreviated also, please if you don't mind). Then we'll understand each other. It'll also make a point as to my attitude towards men and the Bible which you can comment on if desired. Here goes: I got born again(late 60s) when some people from a group called "The Children of God" stopped me in the street and out the clear blue they began to pray for "Jesus to come into my heart." They said nothing else. That was enough to make me fall onto the ground in intense pain. I rolled myself up into the foetal position. Suddenly the pain vanished and I felt like I'd never felt before. I, like everybody, carried a lot of guilt for things I had done. More details are not necessary, but the bottom line was that I knew I was saved. No doubt I was a new creature. I knew it without ever having read it. So they invited me to their commune for Bible teaching and food. Sounded good, so I went. One of the best times I had experienced. I was flying because I just knew "Jesus loved me." That's all I needed to know right then to live John 10:10. In a wink I was living a different life than ever before. I knew it. When it was time for me to leave I bade them all farewell and said I'd be back. One of them replied, "You can't leave. You have to stay if you want to be loved by God. If you go now, you can't come back." Without hesitation, I said, "OK. I'll go be alone with Jesus." I thought many other things, but that's all I said. Didn't bother me one bit because my mind was on Jesus, not The Children of God. Well, it seemed the whole scenario played out again with twi. Shortly after the above incident (6 months), I met WOW Ambassadors (still called that?). They were nice people, but the Bible they taught me is what kept me coming back. A while later I went on staff. No big sacrifice compared to going WOW or the corps. I had to work somewhere. What made this job different was the Bible I could hear. That's what I was there for. I loved working there for the word. Never felt blessed because I was near VP or at the most holy place in the world or whatever. They were decent folks and they taught the word. That's all I was there for. Some years later and a few weeks after The Passing of the Patriarch came out I found myself back in the living room with the Children of God. And I swear to God, it was no harder to walk away from that brewing s..t storm that it was with the Children of God. In both cases I could clearly see that the issue boiled down to a matter of who held my loyalty, man or God? Never bothered me a wit either time. I've not been to one single meeting with with twi, any splinter group, nor church of any sort. It's been me and God, and that's it. Dare I suggest that there was a cult worship of sorts regarding VP? Was the Bible playing second fiddle to VP in some minds? If so then the leadership should have seen it and corrected it instead of taking advantage of the situation. Still, it's no secret in the Bible what happens when people put their trust in man, whoever that man may be. What happens is pretty much what happened at twi. Please understand, I'm not interested in laying fault at anybody's feet. Nor am I saying I'm superior because I could hang out at twi and not fall into their trap of believing their lies instead of the Bible. It's just me. Nobody else like me. It's just where my life experiences led me. Of course, everybody has their own story. That's what makes us different. But none of that changes the truth that it's the Bible, not VP, Stiles, Bullinger, or any other man that can make all of us different people into one body. Well all that is the past. So why, 30(?) years later, are we still focusing on a man? We still haven't learned the supremacy of God's word. And it held that supremacy long before VP, so it's not his idea. He's got nothing to do with that. Whenever the word Bible, word, scripture, or whatever comes up, I think the first thoughts in many minds is, "VP. lier, plagiarizer, I hate the word...grrr." But that's never what the Bible says. You know that, I'm sure. VP couldn't have hurt the Bible any more than Satan. Only if people let him, could he do that. The Bible is what matters. Just read and study that and we'll be OK.

I took PFAL in the late 60's. I never really understood the whole, "to profit" thing when it talks about the nine ways the spirit manifests. I know from the Greek that the word "to" has to refer to a person (case endings dictated that), not the manifestation, as we were taught. I knew from experience that I could get word of knowledge, wisdom, etc. I had seen miracles and healing, so I knew on some level that we could operate 9 manifestations. Still, my belief was based on experience mostly, and the word just a bit. Knowing the overall message of the Bible also led me to believe in the manifestations. But I was never totally comfortable with 1 Cor 12. Not long ago I got hit with a lightening bolt. Jesus plainly said we would do the works he did and then some (John 14:12). Well that settled it once and for all in my mind. I do believe Jesus did all the things mentioned in 1 Cor 12 with the notable exception of tongues and interpretation of tongues. Are those the greater works Jesus mentioned? If so, that is pretty significant. But maybe he was talking about something else. Any input from anybody?

Couldn't people just avoid the Way altogether? Just go to the word? I don't get your connection between quoting scripture and putrid fruit. Are you saying that acting on the things in the Bible produces putrid fruit? That can't be what you are saying. Surely, I misunderstand what you are saying there. Sorry about that. Why not learn from the word instead of people's negative experiences? I want to know what the word says. I already have plenty of negative experiences. Nothing for me to learn there.

Could you elaborate on that, particularly the last sentence? By the way, "application" smacks of wayspeak. Be careful how you use your words. Just saying...

No, I'm right! You're wrong! Grrrr. Well, there's some meaningful discussion.

I really couldn't say everybody else is wrong. I have no real idea what anybody here thinks of the actual Bible. Everybody talks about me way more than the Bible, so no, I don't necessarily think everybody here is wrong. The word of God is "right" not me, you, or anybody else. We are right only to the degree that we align with the word. But I suppose it'll come up, "whose version of the word is right?" I'll tell you right now, not for me to answer.

What in the world does VP have to do with the Bible? He's dead and gone, the Bible is still here.

Well, I didn't exactly say look at yourself. I said look at what God made you. You'd never see that if you looked at yourself. Only the Bible tells you about that. Anyway, I think we are splitting hairs here just a bit. From your post here, it looks like we are much more alike, if not totally alike, than different. I'm sure you are a blessing to many people around you. But with God in Christ (2 Cor 5:19) in you (Col 1:2), how could you do otherwise? It's all win-win for us. God bless...

I learned it from the Bible. The only source for truth. Where did your knowledge of the Bible come from? "veepee" - good now I know yet another GSC speak term. I'm learning quickly now. Thanks!

Are you suggesting I have no good fruit?

Apart from the terms used, is the principle correct or not? If it is correct, what term would be better than "standing?" Or is the entire post BS?

With all due respect, you choose to hide your feelings. Nobody held a gun to your head. There might have been pressure to hold your tongue, but it didn't come from the word. It came from people. I think many held VP and twi above the word. It became a cult of VP. The word took back seat. I noticed that when I worked on staff there. I even mentioned it to several people at the time. I saw lot's of forced piety and such. No wonder we are here now. The leadership should have seen that and corrected it instead of taking advantage of it. I'm glad you feel free to express them now. Better late than never.

First, I'm glad you are doing well. I suppose there really is no need to ponder "standing" or "state." You are absolutely right about that. The new earth will be full of people who never thought about it. It's optional. You seem to take my post personal. I don't even know who you are. Maybe you could rewrite it to be more palatable. Feel free to change all the "you"s into "ones" if it makes you feel better. Is "waybrained" and "wafer" part of GSC speak? Any other phrases I should learn? By the way, any comments on the actual content of my post? They sent me down here to the "basement" (I think that is the correct GSC speak for "doctrinal" section) to discuss doctrine, not to argue. I left another section because I guess I wasn't respecting the rules. You, and I mean "you," should do the same. If you have nothing to contribute but complaints you should stay out of it. This section is for doctrinal discussions only.

How could I possibly know what was in his mind? It'd be pure speculation. Waste of thought to my way of thinking. I really only want to consider what the Bible says. I'm gonna hit the reply button and shut my confuser, er computer, down. For sure this time. Later....

Blow jobs are better than no jobs or any job!

Could I just like you anyway or is it against the rules? If you'd rather, I won't like you. Or I guess it doesn't matter, is what you are saying. So then it doesn't matter if I like you but I sill will. Just goofing around now....don't take me too serious.

You're absolutely right. It is my free will. All I was saying is that I forget my own feelings about the usefulness of posting here and just believe God it will accomplish it's purpose. My feeling on the matter are irrelevant. God knows more about life than me. Thanks for the kind words.

Honestly, I probably did misunderstand. Sorry about that but I'm getting at least 1 reply/minute here. Hard to keep up with all of them. I gotta go now. See you later

We agree. Yeah! Now I like you! I'm kidding, I liked you all along.

Geez...I feel like we are trying to figure out what the meaning of the word "is" is. I trust you are old enough to remember Bill Clinton ask that when defending himself about the blow job? If not, he actually said that.

Great idea. That would be a solution.

Well, I wish everybody could do it also. But my mother always said, "If wishes were horses, beggars would be riding." But the word does help. Not everybody, but some. Isa 55:11, So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Sometimes it seems like I'm just wasting my time here, but I'm not God. He says his word is never a waste of time. So I just speak it. It'll help somebody sometime.

You're saying that that would be the only possible explanation of why I said something? You really can't imagine any other motivations? Wow! Talk about being stuck in a box!

I guess it makes the same claims Stiles did in his book.

I can do that. 1) Jesus said we would do the works he does and then some (John 14:12). Those things are all found in 1 Cor 12 plus speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues. Add 'em up and the total 9. It wasn't my idea that I could do those things. Jesus plainly said I could. So the revised phrase would be, "I do the works that Jesus did, plus speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues." 2) Come on now? The phrase, "throw the baby out with the bathwater" has been around for some time. Nothing to do with VP. It's a good phrase that conveys the meaning to anybody who understands the language and culture. 3) The Bible has not changed since it was written. Now do you believe I can think for myself?