rrobs

Since a society is composed of people, then the quality of life of each individual goes into the overall quality of life of the whole. If everybody is blessed you end up with a blessed society. If everybody is depressed you end up with a depressed society. That is how the first statement relates to the second statement. Hope that helps.

It sounds like you've not heard of a "social gospel." It's a very specific thing and the Bible is not it. Basically, to be "saved" one must perform good works in the social realm. We are saved by grace, not by good works. Here's a good link to explain it further: http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Social_Gospel_Movement That is what I meant by a social gospel. Jesus apparently wasn't that social given his lack of faithful disciples. Most hated him. No my friend, the true gospel and the social gospel are not at all alike. While it is definitely true that God lives in people (born again people to be specific), it is equally true that one must go to the book to understand what it all means. Doing so will never disappoint.

I guess so.

You apparently believe a social gospel, I choose the word. Come visit if you want to see for yourself the answers to your questions.

I understand that form your perspective EVERYTHING I say is dubious. The effect wears out with overuse. That's not meant to be some kind of universal truth. It's just my observation. Not really having any kind of meaningful discussion with you, it's hard to really say.

Could be copyright infringements there, but it's funny.

1Cor 3:19, For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Martin Luther, William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, Oral Roberts, E. W. Bullinger, and many others said the same thing way (not The Way ) before VP arrived. In any case, it is up to each individual to believe or not to believe. Most don't. So what?

The statements I made need no clarification. Excuse me for saying it, but "they say what they mean, and they mean what they say," but that is really the best way I can put it. There are two kinds of people, those who believe what I said and those who don't. I do, others don't. Not much more to say about it.

Interesting you tell me my post has no proof and then go on to aver with no evidence whatsoever that I tried to couch the post in politics so as not to get caught violating the guidelines.

I completely agree with your reply. The Bible and academia are most definitely at odds with one another. Tell me something new.

The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind. Those thoughts in turn are dependant on the things each individual is told by sources outside of ourselves. That is basic to life. Someone telling you they love you fills your mind with positive thoughts. Should that same person tell you they hate you, your mind tends towards more negative thoughts. The influence on our thoughts, and therefore our quality of life, by NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, Google News, et.al. is nothing short of grossly underestimated. In fact, it would be fair to say it’s given no estimation whatsoever. But that doesn’t change the fact that 24/7 our minds are assaulted with words and images that definitely tend towards the things that make us full of anxiety, doubt, fear, and a general feeling of helplessness. That makes for a society with a low quality of life. To reverse this each individual must change the diet upon which their mind feeds. Man’s philosophy, moral concepts, and their false religions are a poor diet indeed. All that unhealthy food needs to be replaced by healthy food. Matt 4:4, But he (Jesus) answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. The devil had just asked Jesus, after having fasted for 40 days, to change the rocks into bread. Jesus could have thought, “Hey, that sounds like a great idea. I’m starving!” That would have ended the whole plan of redemption. Instead, he thought about something God said in his word. Matthew 4:4 is a quote from Deuteronomy 8:3 which Jesus undoubtedly thought about without ceasing. That and the entire Old Testament which he knew like the back of his hand. His mind was filled with thoughts from God’s word instead of man’s insane ideas of this life. Jesus rose from the dead, which is he exact opposite of the horror that daily fills the TV and computer monitors by the alphabet news agencies of this world. To think about the word you must study it for yourself. The yourself part is key. Your Pastor, Priest, Imam, or Rabbi can give you ideas on what the scriptures say, but you must absolutely read and study them for yourself to make sure the things others tell you are true or not. That is the only way you can fill your mind with the thoughts of God which will enhance society rather than tearing it to pieces. There is not a law, policy, or practice that man can make that will have the desired results. 2Pet 1:3, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: It is his divine power and his alone that gives us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can realize that power only by having a knowledge of God. It sure won’t come via the TV, computer screen, or radio. Only God tells us how life should be. If you really want to do something positive to change the course of our world, study the Bible and start believing the things it says instead of believing all you hear on CBS. With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. The more individuals that do that, the better life becomes for society as a whole.

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. The law brought the knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20) and sin brings death (Rom 5:12 & Rom 6:23). But now, since the day of Pentecost when the new birth became available, we are delivered from that which held us in bondage. So what should we do? Can we just sin as much as we want to? If that’s what you want to do, go ahead. But why, knowing what Christ did for you (a most unpleasant death), would you want to go on acting like you did before accepting Jesus as you saviour? We are exhorted to serve in newness of spirit, and that spirit simply does not disobey the law. Romans 7:6 says that you should serve in newness of spirit and not in the law. You are no longer subject to that law which held you in death. You are now able to walk with the love of God that dwells in all born again believers (1 Cor 13). That love was simply not available before the new birth. The only guidance we had from God on how to conduct our lives was that law. Is the law unjust? No. The law was perfect in and of itself. Rom 7:12, Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. The problem was not the law, but the impossibility of anyone being able to follow that law. The problem was with people, not the law. Heb 7:19, For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. What is the better hope if not the first coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? He did follow the law to the letter. Unlike Adam, Jesus obeyed God even unto death. Jesus didn’t want to die the way he did. He asked God if there was some other way to redeem mankind. But he knew there wasn’t and he humbly said, “nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done” (Luk 22:42). Because of his obedience to the Father, the new birth became available and we no longer are held in bondage to the law which made nothing perfect. Rom 6:4, Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. When Christ died we died with him. But that’s not all. When we arose we arose with him. That is why we should walk in in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. (Rom 7:6). Eph 2:10, For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Nobody was made perfect by the law. It served it’s purpose as a schoolmaster until the new birth became available (Gal 3:24), but now we can walk on a much higher plain. You are God’s workmanship, not your own workmanship. It’s all about what God, through Christ Jesus, has done for you, not what you can do for God. He made you able to walk with the love of God dwelling within. That means a completely different motivation for your actions. We don’t love because we must love, but because we want to love. Eph 4:24, And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. The new birth is a spiritual event. It does not affect your mind. You can think and act as though nothing changed, as you used to before God created that new man within. God will not force you to change. He created the new man in you, but he does not force you to change in any way whatsoever. Instead he exhorts you to put on that new man. He wants you to read the scriptures (specifically the letters of Paul) to learn about that new man. Then you can start to think of yourself as that new man instead of the old man. The more you learn about who God has made you in Christ Jesus the more you will walk according to the spirit. It will come quite naturally, without monitoring your every action as to obedience to some law. You do not need the old law to walk in love. All you need do is learn about that new love and you will change your behaviour in a major way. Guaranteed!

I always took it to mean that it was possible to operate any of them at any given moment. Not that I would, just possible. I got that straight from the Bible. I actually knew and believed that before I ever took PFAL. If somebody brainwashed me on that, it wasn't VP. I'm curious. I know a lot of folks don't believe the manifestations. Hope you don't mind me asking where you stand on the matter? Whatever you say, I won't argue.

How you doing Rocky? Where did I suggest it should be taken literally? If you read my post carefully (even a casual perusal would suffice) you would see I actually said quite the opposite. To actually do all nine all the time would be impossible. For example, take just one, say prophecy. To operate it "all the time" would necessitate that one attend a fellowship of believers all day long, 24, 7, 365. Clearly not possible. I always took it to mean it was POSSIBLE to operate any one of them at any time. The Bible is my source. I've probably read way more literature than the average college grad (Russian, English, American, Chinese, et. al.), What makes you think otherwise? Split infinitives? Dangling Participles? Then there's this: Let him who has never used a cliché in their entire lifetime cast the first stone.... Take care...Rich

I suppose "all nine all the time" is a bit of a meaningless cliche. I never should have said that, and I'll never say it again. You are closer to the truth of the matter. "All nine all the time" taken literately would mean tongues, interpretation, word of knowledge, wisdom, etc all at once and every minute of the day. Clearly not possible. Good catch!

1 Cor 13:13, And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. Faith heals (Matt 9:22, Acts 3:16, Acts 14:9, et. al.), sins forgiven (Matt 9:2), hearts purified (Acts 15:9), moves mountains (Matt 17:20), it justifies (Rom 3:26), and much, much more. Bottom line; faith is a wonderful thing to have. It enables all born again believers to receive into manifestation all the things God has made available to them. Hope is pretty good too. Let’s face it, things don’t always go the way we’d like them to go. Life can be cruel indeed, despite our best efforts to believe God. But if you have the hope of Christ’s return and his setting up the new heavens and new earth, then those days are fewer and less intense. This world is not fair, nor will it ever be fair. Sometimes, terrible things happen that you don’t deserve. The reality; it can’t be helped in this world. So looking ahead gives comfort and peace. So hope, along with faith, is a very good thing God gave us in his word. But as good as faith and hope are, according to 1 Cor 13:13, charity (agape) is the greatest. What makes is it that is greater than faith and hope? That is the subject of the first 12 verses of 1 Corinthians 13, and is worth a read. Here is the crux of the matter; 1 Jn 4:10-11: "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another." Does this mean you should love even those brothers who disagree with your doctrine? Absolutely. “One another” is pretty simple. That is who God exhorts you to love. There are no conditions attached in these verses. The standard for that? Col 3:13: "Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye." What did Christ forgive you of? Anything less than the next guy? Have you, who have been wronged, never wrong somebody else? We all do the same things in the flesh (Rom 2:1). It’s hard to do with some believers, but God clearly wants his children to love and forgive each other. No point in trying to come up with reasons to not love this brother or that brother. It’s patently against God’s will. Better to not ask questions, just love and forgive.

I tried to send a private message to you, but I guess you don't accept them. Sorry, but I have to make this public: Not that I will do anything about it, but you should be careful with your words. On July 6 You said: You (Robson) better start "all 9 all the time" for "real" now. Again, I'm not worried and won't report it or anything, but my immediate thought upon reading it was, "Is that a threat?". I don't know who you are or your general disposition, so I don't know what you are capable of doing, or at least trying to do. Nonetheless, I'm treating it as nothing more than an idle threat for now. Let's keep it that way. Friendly advice, that's all. Take care....Rich

Leave it to the scholars, Christian scholars no less, to come up with a psychosis for those who study the Bible! Well God bless, I love them anyway. I read the article in Wiki. Not much scripture, but I guess that would defeat the purpose of the article. OK. Let's say it's not rhema., but logos, as I understand you are saying. Where do you go for logos? Where does one find...all things that pertain unto life and godliness...(2 Peter 1:3)? I've never even read that anywhere but the rhema. Where is it in the logos? I'm always open to discovering new truths. Up to now I've always gone to the rhema for them. Are there others in logos somewhere I'm not aware of? God bless

Who told you that?

Probably more than you want to know (it is for me) about pros, but here is a good link, Pros. "...,the word was with God..." btw, God is in the accusative case, which is relevant to the meaning of pros. I think Point A. in that paper sums it up pretty well. The basic meaning of Pros indicates "face to face." That seems to imply two different things, so that is probably where vp got the idea of "together with, yet distinctly independent of." There could be some validity in his definition.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you [Adam & Eve] every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Adam and Eve were fed from the fruit of the trees God gave them. They never had to go grocery shopping or plant their own garden. Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. God did all the hard work of planting a garden. God then put Adam and Eve into a ready made garden. It was a garden unlike anything that exists today. That one garden had all they would ever need for an eternity of pleasure. The word “Eden” comes from the root of the Hebrew word for means “pleasure.” We can't begin to imagine the fullness of such a way of life. Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; God did all the heavy lifting to provide them with food. God made the trees to grow. Adam and Eve simply enjoyed the fruits of God’s labour. Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. All in all, they had a pretty easy job. Remember, God made the food to grow. They never had to worry about “losing the crop.” They just kept things trimmed up a bit. Suddenly things took a turn for the worse. Adam and Eve disobeyed God. They did not believe him when he told them they would die if they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. God not only told them they would die, but that they surely would die. But, instead of believing God they believed the lies of the serpent, the devil, who told Eve they would not die if they ate from that tree. In fact, he told them they would be just like God. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. It’s the same today. People either believe God or the lies of the devil. The true greatness of any nation does not depend on politics, but whether or not the people of that nation know and believe the truth in God’s Word. Unfortunately, most look to a man, a Reagan, a Bush, A Clinton, an Obama, or a Trump. Few look to God. That explains the present sad state of America and every other nation in the world today. Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; That’s just what the ground does. It’s not God’s fault. He never meant for man to live in such an environment. Remember, He had put them in a most decidedly different environment, namely the garden of Eden. God knew a lot more about things than Adam and Eve knew. He knew what would happen if they ate from the tree and he was nice enough to tell them all about it. After all, he was their father, so why wouldn’t he have warned them. By looking up every verse in the Bible where the word “curse” is used it becomes apparent that a curse was not some spell God cast on the ground out of spite or vengeance. Instead the word is used in a predictive sense. God was just telling them what would happen. Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. God certainly didn’t trick Adam and Eve. He was completely upfront with them. When they disobeyed God, they turned their backs on God, not the other way around. God has not punished them any more than you could be said to have punished your child because he or she didn’t believe you about the heat of fire and stuck his hand into it. Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Now they had to work a lot harder. A whole lot harder. Sweat and all. Clearing, ploughing, planting, harvesting, processing, storing, etc. All backbreaking work. But that’s not all. No matter how hard they worked, there would never be a guaranteed harvest. Floods, droughts, insects, and more could destroy the entire crop at any time. The very fact that there are people starving in this world says it all. In the garden of Eden nobody would have starved. All thing considered, compared to what they had in Eden, I would say that “cursed” is a most appropriate adjective to describe the new ground in which they found themselves!

Nope. No more instructions coming. If you don't get it, you just missed the boat. Sorry.

Well then, make your best guess.

Well, I made an analogy and it seemed to go over your head. Don't know what more I can do to help you.