BlueCord

So, my wife and I have been checking out churches since we don't go to fellowship any more. This past Sunday, we were discussing where to go. Would we check out one that's close by the house, or would we drive into town to see my family at their church? We were sitting on the couch, still in our pajamas, and I said to my wife "To be honest, I really don't wanna go at all today." She said she didn't really want to either. We stayed home, relaxed, and had a great time. And you know what? I didn't feel bad about it one bit.

Hey folks! It's been a while since I've checked in, and I wanted to let y'all know how things are going. We haven't been to fellowship in quite a while, but we are still getting texts asking about whether we're going to show up to this event or that. I think that eventually I'm going to have to let them know that we just aren't coming around anymore, but for the moment I don't think I'll have to do that. And, now that we aren't "in" anymore life seems to be kind of the same. The only exception is that I'm not going to a house full of old folks and listening to the same old teachings. We are still searching for a church, so it's not like we have gained any extra time in our week, but it feels like we have. Anyways, things keep on moving along, and nobody has given us a hard time about anything. So far most of the people we have told about it have understood. Some friends are still in and others left before we did. All in all, not a whole lot has changed, and I'm sitting here wondering why I built it up to be such a big deal.

Oh goodness. My favorite is perhaps at the bottom of the last one where it says "^ Return to More Garbage" or the picture of all of the automatons at the bottom. Priceless.

To everybody who has chimed in here, I certainly do appreciate it. I thought I would give you all a heads up about how my wife and I have planned to make our exit. After discussing things with my wife, we've decided to follow Tzaia's guidance and simply quit going. I don't expect there will be much effort on their part to contact us, but if they do it will likely be by phone. So, that's my grand exit. We're just going to drift away.

Charlene, They actually do NOT have a research department. At least there's nobody with a brown name tag that has "research" on it any more. They claim to have one, but the only research that goes on is when a teacher for the STS submits the teaching to the publication department to be "researched" to make sure it lines up with the collaterals. No new research is being done. They say it's because it's not being submitted, but that's just not true. People submit stuff and Rosalie fires them for it. It's "the collaterals, the collaterals, and nothing but the collaterals" these days

This is so accurate. I was talking to a guy last night who was dropped from the corp and/or in residence training and I was explaining to him how I'm reading Karl's book. One of the things that I mentioned was that I hadn't even been born by the time VPW died. I didn't get into the Way until a decade after Martindale. So, all I've heard about VPW is what TWI wants you to hear. I start reading Karl's book and the parts about VPW have me absolutely horrified. Then I start thinking kind of like TWI has brainwashed us to think. "I wasn't there. I didn't see it. Maybe it's all made up." But when I was talking to this guy last night he and I came to the same conclusion. "Where there's smoke, there's fire." And there's a whole hell of a lot of smoke if even half of what Karl wrote is true. So, I believe this guy was the scum of the Earth. It's just left me kind of in shock, though. I'm certain I'll fit in just fine. I already like talking with y'all. I like that you already understand the lingo, you've been there, worked through the same stuff I'm working through and you're telling me it's normal. It's like "there's a light at the end of the tunnel" kind of scenario, and it's refreshing.

My wife is on board with leaving. When I said she thinks y'all are going to brainwash me, she means that she thinks you're all bitter and angry towards the Way. She hasn't yet grasped that a community of people who were done wrong by an organization can legitimately be trying to help others out of a similar situation without any animosity bleeding through. And I agree with the statement that our relationship is super important to focus on. If she were still happy in the Way I wouldn't have come to this conclusion of leaving. But, we are both unhappy. We don't have anything positive to say about our most recent experiences with the ministry. Every time I bring up this site or the book, her response is the same to "be careful. You don't know those people". So, I've just quit talking about what we're talking about on the site. Again, I'd like to reiterate that she's on board with leaving. Especially in light of some of the more recent news coming from HQ with the directors being focused more on money than people, she's ready to go. I'm on my phone right now, so I can't go into detail, but basically people are getting fired simply for disagreeing with her.

There's a lot to respond to in this post. First I'd like to start with Karl. I'm still reading the book. At once I'd like to say that I'm impressed that you put together works cited at the end of each chapter. The second is that now that I've made the decision to leave is that I am skeptical about EVERYTHING. I have a question that I'm sure will sound rude, but that isn't the intent. When you wrote your book, did you do it specifically to hurt the Way? Did you write it out of bitterness? I ask not because I'm trying to discredit your work, but because it seems so difficult to believe everything you are saying about the character of VPW. Now, the man died before I was even born, so I'm not trying to insult anybody by saying this. What I mean is that for the past six years all I've ever heard about VPW is the shiny, rosy picture that TWI presents of him. When I got involved with the Way D's back in 2010 I had heard the "rumors" about the adultery in the upper echelons of TWI, but I didn't believe them because I looked at the man coordinating the team of Way D's that had witnessed to me. I thought to myself "Jesus Christ himself could demand that (we'll call him Bob) Bob share his wife, and he'd tell the Lord to go .... himself". I literally thought that. I thought that if this guy at the lower levels was so spot on, the upper ranks couldn't be nearly as bad as the "rumors" I'd heard. And if SOME of the leaders were bad, well . . . that's because everybody is an individual that is responsible for their own actions. It certainly couldn't be as widespread as it was reported. That was my thinking process, and that is why I'm asking whether or not any parts of your book are exaggerated. About the ideas that are planted in our head about some of the "losing protection/favor of God" . . . I've put it to the test in the form of ABS. I quit tithing about a year ago and haven't seen any negatives. I know that TWI isn't the only way to God. They don't have the market on truth cornered, so I'm not at all afraid about that. Raf, thanks for getting me to this board. My wife thinks that all you guys are bitter and hateful towards the Way, so she's super concerned that y'all are brainwashing me now. LOL. Bolshevik, I legitimately love a good majority of the people that are still involved. I don't want to rock the boat. It's not because I don't want to see TWI fail, but because I don't want to cause any harm to people who are still in it. With the current environment, they'll see the writing on the wall soon enough. TWI is a sinking ship and it's not about to get any better. Plus, I don't want to cause division among fellow Christians. If I can live peacefully with folks and still get my freedom back that's all I'm concerned about. outandabout, I agree with your statement that we got some good teaching from TWI. And I'm EXPECTING to get more from other sources from outside of them as well. However, due to the fact that they are a cult and the information that I've read so far in Karl's book, I am questioning EVERYTHING they taught. I'm working with a guy now who was dropped from in-residence training because he asked questions about the Foundational Class, so I'm confident that as I review this material I'll have a better chance of keeping the good and throwing out the bad. Tzaia, I've been thinking a LOT about what you've said about going quietly. The issue with just fading away is two-fold. First, I feel like as a decent, and honest human being I at least owe my local leadership the common courtesy of saying "Hey, I'm done with this. Please don't contact me anymore" (more or less). Secondly, when I left Staff I did so very shortly after signing some commitment to a 2nd year. My leave was abrupt, and I'm sure that it spoke volumes to the powers that be about the current situation. I want them to know that I'm leaving and I want them to know why. I don't expect it will make any difference, but I HOPE that it could make Rosie open her eyes and realize that she's gotta start taking care of people instead of things. Me leaving, even though quietly and respectfully, is meant to send a message. Twinky, I have been worried that my friends and family would think I'm possessed or something. So far the folks that I have told are actually somewhat supportive of me. They have gone so far as to say that TWI is not the only way to have a relationship with God . . . that they would never think less of, or harass anybody for leaving. So, that has given me a little peace of mind about the upcoming talk I still have to schedule with my leadership. I'm thinking of just sending them a letter. The guy that I mentioned that got dropped from the in residence training for asking questions cautioned me that if I do talk to them face to face they are going to be reading everything about me (like body language, dress, mannerisms, etc) to try to say that I'm possessed, so I'm trying to prepare for that.

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in, but it's about a particular song that has always gotten under my skin. Now that I'm leaving the Way, it's like "how come I didn't see it for what it was? They were getting you to sing this crap." What song am I talking about? "Trust & Obey" "Trust and obey, For there's no other way To be happy in Christ, but to trust and obey" It's like a literal slap in the face. And we swallowed it all, hook, line, and sinker.

Since I left staff in 2015, maybe I can help with some of these questions. 1) This is about accurate. There are a few visitors from other cities/states, but most of the time it's just the staff folks in attendance. The big crowds are for special occasions like Pentecost, the Anniversary, Resurrection Sunday, etc. 2) Former VP Tom Mullins was able to get a retirement policy put into place that states that you can't work on staff full time after 68 years of age. You can still work part time (and then volunteer as much as you'd like). As for who is replacing these folks, from what I've seen it's the newly graduated Corps. Whether they have any experience or not, they're just thrown into the spot. 4) Concerning rocking the base, it doesn't happen. I've seen people canned just for mentioning that they thought things weren't handled the proper way. RFR is on a massive power trip. If you don't agree with her you're gone. 5) They do try to get young people involved, but they don't listen to any ideas to grow. It's like they are trying to get the younger generations to become mindless automatons to carry on with the ministry exactly as it has been going. They squash any attempts at change. 7) This really strikes a cord with me, because they have the money to purchase cars or equipment that they "need", but they sure as hell don't want to pay anybody over time. They have sign up sheets for "Volunteer work" in other departments in order to make sure the work gets done. I don't know where the money is going, but I have an idea that it stays among the higher ranking "members".

I will NOT be talked out of my decision. I'm sure there will be attempts. But I'm done. Like you said, it's a cult. And there are still great people that are stuck in it or just now beginning to realize it like I am. What I'm struggling with right now is trying to sort out the truth from the lies in their teachings. I know a lot of folks here aren't Christians, but my wife and I still are. A lot of what was taught in the classes seem to make sense to us. Like, I have my doubts about the speaking in tongues and everything, but I still speak in tongues and it still helps me feel good and peaceful. Then at the same time it sounds like a bunch of gibberish to me. It's crazy. I haven't started the search for a church yet, but I'm about to Google local churches in my area. And to answer your question MRAP, I just want to go quietly. The last thing I want to do is alienate my friends or family that is still in. Like I said about the PEOPLE, there are good people that are in. They legitimately strive to be good Christians and walk in love. Those are the people that I don't want to hurt. So, while it may be "good" for The Way that I don't want to rock the boat, I'm not really thinking of them. I just want to wash my hands of the organization. Quit going to fellowship, quit having people call me about fellowship, no more classes, no more forced witnessing. For the most part I don't feel some overwhelming need to burn the "ministry". I mean, there are times when I feel really strongly about them and I do want to sort of stick it to them, but it wouldn't do me any good. It would really just draw out the process in my opinion.

Man, I don't even know where to start with this. I get into the Way in 2010. Way Disciples (basically a revamped program of the WOWs) knocked on my door. I got sucked in because at the actual household level of things they seem to be good folks. Hell, I still think there are good people in the Way. It's just the organization as a whole is bad. Anyways, I took the classes. I went out Way Disciple. I went on Staff. The more I served the more unhappy I was. I couldn't figure it out. A while back (while we were still on staff, actually) my wife and I did an experiment to see whether or not we would be confronted or not. We quit tithing. I was certain that somebody was going to notice and bring it up, but nobody did. When I got to HQ, people were leaving staff or getting fired left and right. People who had said they were going to come on staff cancelled at the last minute. We were doing a lot of "volunteer" hours to make sure all the work got done. Since there weren't enough people to get all the work done more and more responsibility was being added to just about everyone that was competent enough to handle even the simplest of tasks. People who should have been fired for gross incompetency were allowed to remain in their jobs simply because HQ didn't have the bodies to replace them. Needless to say, my wife and I were unhappy. We finally made the announcement that we wanted to leave. In some ways it didn't go over well, and in others it did. We had to sit down with our President's cabinet and explain why we wanted to leave, that was the difficult part. The good part was that they moved us out of there in like a weeks time. Anyways, we get to our field location and things are just kind of . . . I don't know how to describe it other than to say "dead". The fellowship is only a handful of people. The coordinator and his wife are the only people who lead or teach. And the teachings are just kind of empty of any content because it's just trying to go over what was said in the STS. I'm not sure if everyone on the site is familiar with any current members of the Way, but it seems that RFR is on the warpath. I recently spoke with Karl Kahler (the author of "The Cult That Snapped). I explained to him what is going on, and he said it's pretty much the same thing that was going on in Martindale's day; a huge purge. I'm not going to drop a lot of names, because some people are still private. So, before I went on Staff, I was looking forward to working with a friend of mine. The month before my wife and I arrived he got canned. So, we're talking around July of 2014. I arrived in August of that year and left the following year. In the time that I was there I know of at least 2 other people that got fired. I'm not sure of the reasons. Another friend of mine that I had made while on Staff (who felt the same way about life at HQ) had some discrepancies with his pay. After weeks of nothing being done to rectify the problem of NOT GETTING PAID FOR OVERTIME, he just decided to show up a few minutes late to work to get his time back. Needless to say he got in trouble, and was asked if he wanted to stay. He answered honestly and said no. Within a month he was gone. There were two couples who were in their second year of in residence Way Corp training. They asked some questions about the Foundational Class. They were immediately let go. Fast forward to right now. I got some news this weekend about some corp being dropped. One couple (the husband had recently been promoted to coordinate the IO department) had been fired shortly after I left HQ. He gets sent to another state. I'm not sure of the details, but this weekend I found out he was dropped from the Corp and has left the ministry. Another good friend of mine who was Corp also got dropped. The reason? He made some comments about feeling unproductive. Now here's the kicker. One of the Vice Presidents of the Way got canned also. We're talking a senior officer. So, I see all this stuff going on, and I've read all the stuff about the years under Martindale (which I didn't go through) and I think to myself "Oh my God. It's happening again". I don't know what else to say. I'm in the process of getting out. I don't know how to go about breaking it to my "leadership" without getting sucked back in.