MRAP

I see the ABS point, I was wrong. And if twi does fold in 4 years, GSC will have accomplished much of its' mission.

I just got in from shoveling snow and had time to think about what I wrote. I am angry with myself for letting something that happened 40 years ago still get under my skin. Evidently time is not healing that wound. I intend to try a little forgiveness (Lord knows I require forgiveness): forgiveness for those past interm corp, branch leaders, the roving corp folks and the folks at HQ. Something that was said by skyrider: those folks were all indoctrinated, ship, I was indoctrinated. Additionally, now I got that Lead Zepplin Imigrant song stuck in my head and that line: "we are your overlord".

Waysider, my point is that HQ did not want us to stick and develop a "fellowship" of believes, friends and family, twi wanted us to keep moving and dragging in more $. If you go into an area, pull people into a fellowship, they take that class and then you "DROP" them, it's the twi way - take leadership away, take it all away. Alot like a one night stand - you can't play with people's emotions, feelings and beliefs that way. Being a WOW was alot like being a pimp.

Bingo my green friend but there's more here.

I disagree: fear is never healthy. Courage is the state of overcoming fear but courage is a personal thing. Dealing with overlords became simple - leave. As they (the idiotic interm corp) go back off their interim corp year I am going about my double career; twi leaders become the new dregs on society. Yes, twi corp folk lost an abudance of time in their lives: how's that abundant life going? No meaning to offend but in my simple mind, being twi corp = losers; working at HQ in admin = pity folks. Bottom line: I appreciate knowledge from folks here who did or were assocciated with Biblical research since it helps fill in holes and allows advancement onto other issues. What that means is that I respect your opinions but am confused by your dissing of other folks who helped develop that research, that's hypochritical.

It never was about moving the word in twi, it was about running classes and gathering money and sending it off to HQ. If it were about moving the word then twi would not be opposed to a believer with a "twig" establishing in an area. You see, that did not work, you already drained the area for folks who would take PFAl, thus, you had nothing more to offer other than abundant sharing. That's the greatest sin, depriving folks of the word, twi intentionally stopped the movement of the word and establishment of a "church" in order to move those folks to elsewhere with a greater opportunity of collecting funds for PFAL. Regardless of the financial and family and career burdens on the folks that carried out those missions. Trust me, as a WOW and quasi WOW years back to back I understand the meaning of whore. You just need to maintain twigs and grow them. It was saturation, the following year WOW branches (corp led) were sent to areas/cities geographically close to the previous year (30 miles). I am a military guy, I understand the strategy. Eventually, it would be an ol'e fashioned church, established folks with $ and a major foot hold. You see, 1st year WOWs into an area were expendable, burn them out and send them off, leave a few leaders to hold the ground. Actually, I think all I have said is bunk cause I don't think twi hq could devise a plan to go fishing let alone going word over the world. sorry for the whine and the ha ha. twi was/is so f'd in the head they have not learned from the mistakes of the last 40 years; an organization that takes that philosphy means that it's all about leadership raping the profits and letting the whole thing go, I give it 4 years. All the leaders will leave with the $. Any takers? That will also be the demise of gsc, except for the doctrinal.

Did the "leadership" offer to buy your house?

Thanks Twinky for wanting to keep all twi criteria of the gift ministery outa this discussion. The question posed is, as I think I understood it: do we have these gift ministeries today and how do we ID them? I brought up the facts about my time spent with Donnie Fugit, an Evangelist and accepted as a gift ministery evangelist by twi. Like that matters but it's strange how twi acknowledged that - someone else, please chime in. Given: we don't trust twi on who "gets" a gift ministery: get's is/was = absurd. Let's take Mr. Fugit as an example. I put forth that he had the gift ministery prior to coming to twi but it was the blessing of twi that gave him accreditation. I made that point earlier and during the discourse folk/s thought I was dissing on Mr. Fugit; that's not the case. Looking and speaking with Donnie would not impinge upon me he was an evangelist - ship, I was already a Christian, why would he need to evangelize to me. Nor, as I was wrong, should I expect him to teach me/us how to evangelize. I have come to realize that the job of a gift minister is not to teach others how to do their job - their job is given to "THEM" by God. I think I read that somewhere here earlier. I will attest that hopefully, we have gift ministers around us but that no one can point them out to us; I don't think we have the ability to point them out unless God tells us but then, why does he need to, not our business. Is it best to just let them do their job and not bother about ranking folks in the family? Just as with angels unaware, am sure we meet gift ministry folks just as commonly and don't have a clue - that's the point, we should not be looking for a clue. They are here to bless the born again, the family and as I understand, the organized family. Thus, if you are like me, a stand aloner, then we may miss out on them. I wish Donnie were still around, I only wonder what he would share and what questions he would answer. Old as we are and retired as we might be are the considerations of taking forth the word as it were - youth is wasted on the young. Sorry, it's a personal dilema.

I normally don't much post on this forum anymore but this particular topic touched my ire on the power of an inept piece of ship/overlord stepping into my personal life. Especially given that I had put off her sexual advances and then she goes on to entice and win over another man in the branch, a man with a family and also a friend of mine - he bled his heart out to me about the matter. So much for the corp folk on the interem year, just getting their desires met: they were in all reality the overlords like stated in the Lead Zepplin song - Imigrants Song. I am sick that I did not call it game earlier cause in the previous year, my WOW year, I already saw it with my then 4th corp branch leader. Yeh, if you see stuff and say anything then you are "bucking God" but that's a subject for another forum thread. I determined never again to be a coward and that ship heads such as that did not represent God. Sorry for the long read, it's off my chest - once again. Makes me wonder why after soo many decades this still bugs me. Not sure I could share this anywhere else, who would understand?

I will stick to the thread: "overlords". My wife to be and I were way folk (WOW's) my WOW year was over and she was in the last month of her college WOW year, we were very committed to the cause but fell outa favor (details are irrelivant) with the 5th corp interim branch leader who informed all in the branch that they were not to attent our marriage. A couple of the older twig ladies told em to stick it and came to the wedding. The overlord/corp branch leader was outa touch with folks in the branch but exhibited enough authority such that no one else came to the wedding. Within a years time we cut all relations with twi except for the sponsorship of folks in the 6th corp. Yes, it was a blessing in disguise - it made for a quick and touching understanding of how the leadership had ship for brains and never again trust anyone from the corp. Like I said, within the year, all ties with twi were cut. That overlord concept rings a bell, feudalism; inept corp folk sent into the area that ended up destroyin the area - yes, folks understood the overlord persona of them and left. Later many folks said that they had wished they had come to the wedding: fear is the strength of an overlord. Yes, I stated this scenario about a year ago but in light of the overlord aspect, I saw it all anew.

Hey, Raf, check it out with Donny, Leo and Mikey. Levity is a mighty good medicine; just order a pizza and listen to Splinter and watch out for Shredder. I'm an ol'e TMNT fan - my kids were nuts. Yeh, I know, you gotta be stern at all times. Gotta go, think I got foot clan breaking into the house. Yeh, I know, it belongs on St.George's forum.

I have not posted on this thread for awhile and have no intention to post on this thread anymore even though it's in the doctrinal forum. There's nothing to learn or hear that has not already been extrapolated from other venues. Even though I started this sub forum in honest intent it's quite obvious it belongs elsewhere so the REV and its' developers can be bashed without reservation: I would suggest under the TWI forum since it now seems that off shoots like STF are consolidated with twi though I find that repulsive. I noted that some changes have been made in relocating sub-forums, probably a good idea. The REV should be taken outa the doctrinal forum since it is a magnet for bashing even though it should not be discerned against any differently than any other Biblical version. I would like to see the doctrinal forum be just that: doctrinal discourse without dragging in dislikes for those who posed certain Biblical ideas. I know, it's not my call how GSC constructs their forums, I only put in my 2 cents with the intent to keeping the doctrinal forum free of personal attacks and sticking to doctrinal debate. I rarely pose questions on the doctrinal forum but I most certainly appreciate reading the subjects on the forum - their are some thoughtfull and well researched folks who post on doctrinal. Now that was a long write, I need to take a breath.

Around 10 months ago I brought up a suject that included SIT. I was told at the time that the topic had been hashed and over hashed numerous times. I may have done so in the wrong forum. Here I see that discussion goes on, what am I to take from that: If you are a veteran poster then go for it? I may be missing the point if this is a resurrected topic, if so, then I apologize for the accusation of bias and selectivity. Regardless, I have followed this post thread with interest though I have read pretty much all the same arguements on older posts. The whole SIT thing runs along do and don't lines: for those of us who do not SIT it means nothing and to those of us who do SIT it means nothing. We will continue to do/not do what we do. It has been a good dissertaion on 1 Cor 12 to 14 as long as it regards SIT but not much has been discussed regarding the rest. I admit, I read the topic discussions on the doctrinal forum and do little to add to the discussion other than interjecting a topic. I also admit, I lack much of the knowledge to debate on the forum, I'm O.K. with that, I am a learner and reader. I perceive this thread has become funneled to a specific area with no resolution in sight but being ignorant as I am, maybe we are reaching an apex of knowledge. Looking for resolutionon on a doctrinal topic is not achievable. Thanks to the folks who have contributed but can we possibley get to some of the other matters in 1 Cor 12-14? Lastly, I am thankfull for such well evaluated information.

I am interested in the concept (for lack of a better word) how Jesus made the decision/s in selecting his faithfull. I am not asking that we get into a discussion about "The mind of Christ" but early in Christ's minestry, how were these selections made? It seems that the Bible leaves alot to speculation, sometimes I wonder if we should even speculate. I am ignorant and appreciate reading the discussions of those less ignorant; I think the topic is worth discussion, time will tell.

Frankly, not much comes up on any search regarding Nathanael or his supposed other name (Bartholemew - spelling is off); actually, in the Nathanael search (GSC and elsewhere) there ain't crap on him. Additionally, there's not alot of anything redarding the rest of the disciples until after their selection (I stayed outa Acts). I thought this might have been interesting: how Jesus selected disciples. No, I don't even want to get into the Judas Iscariot thing at this time, unless, someone wants to to go there; I can't imagine how deep we could take that. Hey, dangling bait here for you Biblical scholastic folks since my understanding of it all is quite shallow.

Wordwolf, I did not think it was "eye sight" either but I did not want to rule that out of the equation. I gotta lean to the revelation angle as well. It also seems that Jesus had chosen Nathanael prior to Philip's intervention in the matter but it also states in vs 45 that Philip "finds" Nathanael as though Philip was looking for him. I am not attempting to read too much into this scenario but I find it worth discussing how Jesus selected the 12. There's so much already posted on GSC: if someone can direct me to the correct thread I will go there to check this out.

That's pretty good, I only counted 5 made-up words this time, then again, it was a short rant. I guess when you make up your own words they can't be misspelled.

That's why he will only do one show a day, he just won't do it.

That's not my point: looking for a pass. I simply posted on the wrong forum and going through the following year, expected doctrinal type responses rather than bashing. Yes, the TWI forum is a bashing forum so go for it. As David Bowie (real name Jones) said in the movie, "Labrynth", what's said is said.

I gotta give you credit, DWBH, nothing much there that I would be proud off, then again, it's your post and you understand the intent of your post. So, how did you resond to the IRS agent given your internal knowledge of those finances? I gotta say, I appologize for calling you a coward; what you said takes alot of guts.

Year 2027/Roy has done an excellent job of describing the anatomy and physiology of the air transfer process pre/post and during birth (in my wheel house); he's on target so let's not dispute that. I know the vpw and twi commentary on this matter - I disallow any of that, just shooting from the hip here, since their explanation was devoid of logical thought, so, can we leave any reference of vpw/twi outa this discussion. Now, given your biblical references Roy, they are what we have heard for the purpose of allowing abortion but given your question, which is a mighty question and your understanding of oxygen transfer to the fetus/baby then we are left with "breath life" which you have stated quite correctly. I realize this is not a discussion about abortion but you can take alot of what has been said by the pro and con obortion folks into consideration. Roy/year2027, you initially asked about the big three (Body, Soul and Spirit) but you have sort of taken this discussion into when does "soul" life begin: let's hold that until later and address one topic at a time. Body: really, it's dirt/chemical that can all be found on the peroid table. Spirit: Biblically, of course it exists, either what Adam and Eve had (did she?), the spirit placed on folks in the OT, the spirit descending as a dove on Jesus (discussion for another day), spirit upon other select such as disciples and then spirit placed within born again believers (yes, I have used upon and within intentionally). Is the question the Soul/what's Soul? Gee, volumes by poets, pastors and theologians have been written on it Roy. Yeh, it's the psuche in the Greek and I would reference how the Greeks understood that word cause that's how much of what we beleive in the NT is based on: the Greek defenition of soul. Having said that Roy, I don't think the Greeks held the monopoly of what the soul is/was by their definition of psuche/soul. We are just sucked into the Greek because the folks who wrote the NT wrote in Greek. Sheesh, we can not be bound to that (nor the issue regarding spirit/pneuma). Roy, I have said a few things and have said nothing. I'm sure you will get some more elaborate posters on this forum to address your question/s; I am looking forward to reading them. Thanks for the topic, don't get much deeper than this one.

In the gospel of John, 1, 45-50. Jesus saw Nathanael under the fig tree, for some reason, Nathanael understood that as "how did Jesus know I was there". Did Jesus actually see Natnanael (with eyes) or was something else in play that nobody could have known that Nathanael was under the fig tree unless there was something else going on, such as revelation. Well, Nathanael was sure convinced to the point of calling Jesus the Son of God. Nothing to do with any specific translation here but if you want to address how it has been translated in the REV, feel free to elaborate on that as well.

Nearly a year ago waysider provided good advice, move my questions regarding the REV to the doctrinal forum; I suppose that's why all the comments were just a negative spew against the REV/STF and did not identify anything specific/objective about the REV's translation, thus, nothing noting chapter and verse disagreements with the translations on the REV. I got it now, any further questions on the REV will be moved to the doctrinal forum and specifically identified as coming from the REV cause that's always been my concern, how accurate is the REV? The 2d mistake was to have asked about the REV in a sub forum under the forum umbrella of twi; it took a bit of time to understand that when folks post within that forum, they are locked and cocked; objectivety is not part of the aiming process. waysider, you did provide the correct advice and at the time I did not realize its' importance: belated thanks. RAF, I thank you for your posts on this sub forum, for this reason: they motivated me to go back to the start of the sub forum and see what's the deal (actually, I wanted recourse)? It was only as an aside that I understood that since it was under the twi forum I was asking for the attacks and was also the reason I saw waysiders post/recommendation. RAF, I know that was not your intent but either way, it worked out cause I just could not understand why all the dumping on the REV without identification of the reasons why ((except for dislike for twi off shoots (STF) and JS)). Trust me, it takes a bit of time to navigate GSC and to so many of you veterans, the whole thing seems obvious but to someone new, when you post something "incorrectly" in the wrong forum to begin with and anticipating responses that are relative to what you are expecting then the proverbial feces hits the swirling fan blades. When I hear all the stay on thread "comments" it reminds me of the original Star Wars movie while attacking the battle star: "Stay on Target". Hopefully that correlation will help all posters - I have witnessed nearly all verterans here going off thread. I will end since I am off thread.

I don't beleive you RAF, I don't think you bid me peace; you hope to bid me farewell. In one year I have not seen GSC take into the fold or comfort a twi exit; the mission statement of GSC has become defunct. GSC has become a place for aging discontents to spew their diatrads. Do you really want to debate that observation? GSC has a great opportunity to turn the corner (I have said this previously); I was met with some gnashing of teeth saying that. GSC is full of dishonesty, protecing its' own agenda; open thought on GSC is not acceptable if it opposes veteran beliefs. Now, given that, why not add that to the new commer rule book? Actually, a good read of that says it all: stay in your place and walk on egg shells - don't p-off the vets. RAF, read it; who on earth would want to stay on GSC after reading that "welcome" stuff. I will say: it's a very correct warning.

I now realize that my questions regarding STF and the REV will never be obectively answered on GSC. There are some of you who stick to biblical research that could have jumped in and pointed out problems on the REV but all I saw were a bunch of anti-twi and anti-twi off shoot folks dissing on the whole matter without any proof: did anyone post a specific problem with anything posted on the REV - if so, I missed it. All responses were just anti REV and all folks who work at STF. You have only spoken generalities and not specified anything in the REV you find fault with. You have not exhibited an ability to evaluate anything biblical on this forum thread, neither on the doctrinal forum when I asked questions. I had been told to be patient and take those questions to the correct forum and having done so, was met with the same antisms. I expected more from you knowledgable folks but all you provided were your crapping on folks and did not discuss the forum topic. Your site provides nothing, I don't even think it provides a place for those folks leaving twi to express their views and receive comfort, in a years time: ain't seen it. Is not that the purpose of this site - HOW MANY NEW SUBSRCIBES HAVE YOU SEEN OF LATE? As I have said before: this is an aging bunch of folks bitching about things 40 years in the past who are not capable of moving on in life. I don't think you all here at GSC care anymore about helping folks exiting twi, you just want to keep on bitching about stuff from your youth. There are some great posts mostly by Steve Lotz but regretibley, one must wade through all the "anti" crap to get to it. You can jack me off this site at any time, I really could care less. Mostly I only monitor this site to see what the doctrinal has to say: mostley, I learn but I can learn more by going elsewhere. I have been here only a year and already I see less variety in posters: GSC, you are dying and after all your'e veteran posters die off, so will you. GSC has a fantastic option to open its' doors to biblical discussions, you can't dis twi forever. Imagine, concepts from so many folks from differenct beliefs. NAH, GSC could care less about biblical truth or discusion of the topic, nor anymore about twi exiles (how many in the last year), it's a great site with alot of folks with decades of biblical knowledge - personally, I would hate to see it wasted.