MRAP

I was just reading skyrider's forum thread: A Gauntlet of Classes and Indoctrination. I saw his post about his son and medical school and if he and his family had not exited twi, his son would not have had that opportunity; it reminded me of one day in the long past. If it were not for a Wisconsin limb teaching in 1975, I would not have taken advantage of my GI bill and went to college - that changed my life (as I see it) for the better: dual medical technology and military careers - and because of that, I now was able to retire earlier than most folks my age. VPW taught at that limb meeting, I can not remember exactly what he said or did but it was after that, that I decided to utilize my military vet/GI bill educational benefits. I think also that it had to do with what happened earlier in the day when I witnessed vpw chewing out the Joyfull Noise folks and then realized that twi was no longer going to be the only thing in my life and it was time to challenge myself and move onto additional endeavors though at that time there was no intent to leave twi. Strange: was it something I heard that day during the teaching that told me I could be more than what I currently was (unintended consequences) or was it the visual of vpw chewing out Joyfull Noise - maybe a combination of both. Either way, it changed the course of my life like how a rock in the middle of a stream can change the course of water - what a random little experience that day was.

I was warned before starting this thread that there would be passionate responses but did not expect this sort of discorse. Hopefully we can get back on the topic of this thread of how twi changed your life. As this thread began, twi was an experience and we learned from it but did any of what we learned change us for good or bad. Many of the errors/faults of twi were experiences we learned from but did we utilize those negatives to either enhance or be a detriment to our charcter and such? Us who have posted in GSC have quite a variety of experience with twi: time in "twi service", twi positions held, different jobs while on the WOW field but maybe, most importantly - the crap or cream we encountered. It's understandable that twi could turn a person away from God and just as understandable that twi could set the ground work for a desire to learn more about God, though in a differenct venue. I would like to think that every dark cloud has a silver lineing and to this day, I look back on the twi experience to see if there is still something I can take from that may help me, even now, as I enter the ranks of the old fart/senior citizen (never too late to learn). Sadly, twi has made me overly wary of all God professing organizations so, is that a good or bad thing?

skyrider posted to MRAP: Ironic, ain't it? You walked away from twi/vpw in 1977....and want to credit them? And, really.....why the past tense [changed] fixation on twi/vpw? Actually, my life has been changING for a long, long time. The past 15 years have been quite good, thank you very much. skyrider, don't get your tiddys in a bundle. I have no intent to credit twi/vpw for anything (unless deserved), the experience changed direction in my life at that time (unintended consiquences). Per Twinky's recommendation, I did start a new thread in the "About The Way" forum. I posed this because on this site we trash twi/vpw alot (and deservingly so) but what did we specifically learn while in twi that has helped us later in life or changed us.

We all learn from our experiences, and twi/vpw were certainly an "experience". If you feel like sharing, tell us how they changed you or what you learned from them: good, bad or both. I learned about commitment and then learned the pain of being screwed over by that I was committed to. That can happen with any organization or relationship but from men and women of God (or claimed to be) it took on special meaning. I ingrained mistrust and questioned nearly everything there after and still do - that's also just part of growing up. When you donate (ABS)you need to ensure your donation is being used correctly and not wasted, abused or used in a manner you oppose. I learned discernment that has greatly assisted me in my careers because I became less stupid. I learned that the knowledge and love of God does not come in only one package.

waysider, no pun intended here but do you know the story about the hot water frog. If you throw a frog into hot water, it will jump out (best it can) but if you put it into tempid water and slowly turn up the heat until it comes to a boil, the frog does not get it until it's too late.

The thread is: Blurring the Boundaries. So, yes, vpw did that. How has that changed your lives, I for one, have learned from all the crap in twi - it made me smarter. So, in hind sight, I am thankfull for the twi experience - I became a better soldier and leader because of twi (I don't think that was the plan of twi): that experience made me more capable of discerning situations and intentions. So, am I saying twi is good, well hell no but I bet there are plenty out there who have learned from the "blurring" of truth. On a side note: you can bash twi and vpw with no problem (there's so much to bash)but how much did we learn (how to avoid "bad" and have our own characters change). Survival is a great teacher but it can go for or against you. Maybe a new forum would be how twi/vpw changed your lives.

I love the truth of no longer being judged, I am all that all is and I have it all. So, where does the concept of a better place in the palace come into play. You know, the so called rewards for deeds done since there is no longer any tracking of deeds. Yes, quite selfish if I do say but what if that concept is correct? OR, if not in this current life but when we come back with the other angelic beings that we fight with them against the forces of darkness - is that where we gain those rewards? Hey, teachmevp, at what point in time do I need to dig in my heals and fight? I can do the "deeds" for nothing and that is O.K. with me (I owe alot)but if I have read the Bible correctly, there are rewards (and I deserve nothing) but I am willing to work for nothing. So, sit on my hands or not, what's the difference? I am not around to gain but if I have the opportunity to gain, what's the process - eternety is a long time and I am more than willing to fight for what gains me in that afterlife; I think there is more than what I am currently doing. It's hard to say if it's just plain greed on my part or just preparing for the best future. All this discourse is not directed at only teachmevp but all other readers of this post. If there is an older doctrinal forum/thread that I can be directed to, please provide that reference. WOW, it's not enough to be saved and have everlasing life, I want even more once I get there - how is that possible? It's not ego or pride, it's comfort and best opportunity: you know, good fishing, a view of the lake or whatever. I am willing to work/fight for it. Now, with questions like this, folks here may not have the answers but I well know (as I have said before), Jesus knows my every keystroke and thought. What I do is to just keep on doing what I do and do it more extensivly. Now, if all that was not a mouthfull of figures of speech. Oh, to read Greek is one thing (even if poorly), to think in and speak it another. Written in the fleshly heart - that's the best starting point. These are only personal comments inspired by the previous posts and not documented by any text in any way.

Does Trejo play a "religious" man and some zombie/vampire types are included? Not sure about the rules if it's O.K. to ask for clues. Even if that would give it away: there are no winners or losers.

My goodness waysider, you get the word "deputy" in your head (reference RFR) and you come up with Bob Marley, couldn't you at least have found something on Eric Clapton - sheesh. Well at least Bob Marley looks alot like Brian Bliss - don't ya think? Back on thread: Wife and I did an exodus of 2 in 77.

I agree waysider but what about when politics/government attacks religious beleif? Or does that just open the door for political dissusion on a whole?

Thank goodness I never got around to tossing out all my ol'e secular albums (one should at least keep the covers, what art work). Wonder if any of those vynels still play - yup, got an old turntable but not sure I would trust it. On the road to a ROA, I think back in 74, I tossed a Moody Blues album (Days of Future Past) in the back of my 68 VW Bug; the sun did a number on it - I have seen smaller waves in the Arctic Ocean in October. Still have a bunch of twi stuff from 1972 through 1977 - some of that early stuff was really good. Digress once again, I do and off thread, I think my above comments belong on an already existing thread. I blame it on waysider, he just had to type the year: 1972 and Broken Arrow for bringing up Hendrix.

Really, Broken Arrow, in the words of Ripley in Aliens: "You started it, show me everything!" You said you were missing something and needed to understand, so, what do you now understand? We are looking to your evaluation of all the information provided to come to a conclusion - make your point and at least I for one, will say no more and we can close out this thread that you started.

Waysider, I was asking for help in how to take care of someone you now bring into the word. I don't think I can deal with a bum living in my garage - yes, I be a jerk. To bring someone into the word now is like having a kid - I am old, I don't need anymore kids and I have a life (oh, Jesus has alot to say about that - he sees my every key stroke). That's what I am talking about. How do older established folks deal with this dilema. Yeh, could go work down at the soup kitchen or shelter speaking the word but that's lame since I then take no responsibility for the person that accepts Christ and then I just walk away. Hell, I give alot to the Salvation Army, I might join their ranks or at least work with them for the season (I can do the drum or tamboreene); kidding aside, that's an idea. You know, in the old days, we did not like witnessing but now, there is no fear except for what happens afterward. Yeh, right, go door to door in the high rent districts.

Waysider, you are as much about the voice of reason (via humor) on this site as Raf's comments are in seriousness of the topics, you are a palate cleanser in many a discourse; my thanks. As for WordWolf, his shortness (at few times) speeks volumes more than when he gets verbose, his words are always so appropriate, long or short. Now, that sucky crap aside, I understand a bit more in depth of what this site has allowed: it's therapy - on alot of levels. I am so remiss about having brought anyone to twi - speaking the word to them I am not and especially not when it got someone "saved". It must be ego in part but to smash a ds, that's fantastic; what did Jesus say about that: desire not that the ds's are subject to you but rather that >>>>>>> YES! So much of our instruction in twi was all about ego and ego within twi, what a shame, what a waste of our energy in our youth. Think about that my sisters and brothers; for that, I will not forgive twi. TWI stole our youthfull energy for their purpose - you bastards.

My outrage is this WordWolf: there was so much opportunity for the word to move and when we did move it, the hq took hold on all that we (WOW's and after) put into getting folks into the word; we had nothing left to work with - people. HQ told us how to deal with new folks (under sheperding), they did not know these people and what kept them - all HQ wanted was their $$. We lost em, the system drove them away, either through WOW recruetment, Corp recruitment or going to work at HQ (free labor) and all in the name or guise of doing God's service. You see, that's what bites me, "USEING" God's word for personal gain: money, sex and power; I think that covers the three bases, what's home plate? Yes, I have dealt with my personal pain brought on by twi from years past but what I now see (thanks to GSC) is how much pain I inflicted on others that I brought to the "word". I did no one any favors, at least in this life, born again, yes, kick some DS's a..s..s's, yes. These are not the days to keep score. Bringing someone to the Lord and salvation also requires commitment to that person (real undersheperding). Not sure how I am up to that at this point in life - hey out there, give me some feedback and some ideas from your personal's on this topic.

O.K., what kinda program do we have here? I used the term: A..S..S..., I prefaced it with dumb and it was posted as "dumb foot". Hey, I do not use the F word or other stuff like that but when someone is a DA, let me say it. Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): what are the linguistic rules. Yes, WordWolf, VP was very military oriented. In the sense though, he had no one to execute that mission. Back in 73, I was off on military mission to the Mediteranian and had folks with, on the ship, who wanted to take PFAL. I was only a class grad but twi hq (or maybe it was NC HQ) was willing to send me the tapes and books (reel to reel tapes); well the 73 Middle East war broke out then and we were not able to hold the class - it was a war you know. Doug Emerison (NC Limb leader) told me that it was because the Devil probably initiated that conflict to prevent the teaching of that class (Doug was just being niece to me). To this day, I wonder, yes, I know what happened to Doug but not all the details. I still have all those books and tapes (I think), still sitting in a basement - probably demagnetized by now: talk about a TWI collector's item. I recall at the annual August festival (ROA) a few years later there was a military parade of folks with pomp and such and I was not included where the military WOW program was initiated: I was proud and happy but a bit miffed as to why I was not included. Today, I understand: I failed. Speaking of Doug Emerison, I do recall him often saying: As my Great-Great Grand Daddy always used to say (Ralph Waldo). Gotta wonder if trunk/hq liked him because of the American literature history = added a bit of clout to twi. Thanks again folks for reading the rant of an old man.

Aside having been a commander, my primary positions in the later years was as a planner, a training planner when I got older. You had to see things from all angles. When preparing others to go off to war the last thing you wanted was to let them hurt themselves. Not sure if that applies but I see a dumb foot mode here "you go do it" and I will watch. That's not correct training nor is it leadership. Very glad I never took that next step within twi - they would have kicked me out (got a bit hostile after the WOW year - I started to sas back with the new branch/corp person). There was a large waiting for the way corp back then - like I said on prior posts, don't know what ever happened to the folks I sponsored in the corp. I just guess they left at best and did not want to tell me they did so, feelings of shame and guilt. They were friends and to think those wrong feelings got in the way of keeping in touch. It was not all that long after the end of the WOW year (2 years) that I called it game. Sorry folks, I am ranting in the wrong thread.

WordWolf, you assumme a "he": it was a woman branch leader - read what I said about the girls in the branch and how they felt the need to emmulate the female branch leader with the long hair. In answer to part of your question, yes, she decided on the type hair cut. It was wrong, my hair did not work in that particular lengeth (I am part black - something I found out later in life). She was trying to play "MOM" - I ended up looking like a mideval page boy: talk about an above the belt casteration. I ended up just then cutting it short, hell, I was an OKy anyway; needless to say, it reduced the girls in the branch associating with me then - it was 1974 or 75 by then (short hair was a "no"), the one who did, I should have married that girl. Thanks alot WordWolf, I try to forget about what a wimp I had been turned into by an unexperienced woman who herself had never worn my shoes on the road of life. As I write this, it's a very bad flash back and I do know what those are, I gotta stop, else, the real crap will be drawn up along with the twi crap. Memories, the up and down side of having grey matter.

I agree with Raf, teachmevp. I love and look forward to your posts; it would make for an easier read if you split it up a bit when topic changes take a turn in accordance with written "English" launguage structure. Just keep writing your heart dude, you are on topic IMHO but go back and proof it and add in some breaks, that way you do not lose the flow. If not, I will not stop reading you but you may gather more readers if you do that. Either way: DON'T STOP.

Today we have the gift of holy spirit: the fleece is gone. Excellent post teachmevp, once again.

A bit of prep time by the principal would have been appropriate: inform the populace as to the why of it all. This is not about Pat, it's about making a political statement and for that, the principal is wrong. Recited in a language other than English, I have no issue if it is done for the noble reasons that have been listed above but it was done to excite and that is not what we are about. Some of my most trusted fellow soldiers back in the day were Iraqi and spoke Arabic, I enjoyed the language (not the only language spoken in Iraq and leastly in Afghanistan). At the time, I knew only little of their languages to communicate, they were all very understanding. Here's the point: a bit of fore warning with an explanation by the principal would have gone a long way to having made it a momentuous event - the principal did not exercise correct discretion. Twinky, your comment is understood but you left out "justice" (those folks are getting their justice - as promised in the pledge). Realize, not all non-english words translate directly to English, so to say the pledge in a non-english language may not carry the same weight and then again, it may carry even more weight/emphasis.

WordWolf, I did really just want to let it slide but I can't, please, don't use the Bataan Death March in a comparison to anything. Met some of the survivors back in the mid-1980's; since then, I have never correlated that event to anything that was considered arduous. I know you meant no disrespect but only state this openly so others do not use that event in a correlation in the future. Hopefully you will not think I am just trying to be politically correct (Lord knows that I am far from that) nor am I trying to push a pro-military vet agenda, it's just very painfull to those few survivors that exist today but mostly, their families.

When I went WOW back in 1974 I had long hair (am a male); I had left the Navy that spring and decided to just grow the hair as a NC state WOW during the summer. After a few months on the field (now around December)as an international WOW, I was told to get a more "conforming" hair cut that would help me witness better; thus, I did have a pony tail for a few months - funny, that long hair did not stop me from getting a real good job that helped my WOW family with alot of $. So the branch leader takes me down to the barber shop like a little kid - you can draw all kinds of conclussions there. Yes, this is a man's perspective. As far as the women in that WOW branch, very long hair was the norm because then you could flip it around like the branch leader - I think you know what I am referring to - sex draws PFAL sign-ups - hunger for the word?

Folks, WordWolf has gotten the whole idea preatty straight as how it was taken from the military - right on target there WordWolf. In the military, those type exercises are conducted and do teach leadership and teamwork but in an environment that ensures you are safe (Lord help the trainer that allowed someone to get hurt because of trainer neglect - we were an expensive comnodity). As I have read above, it is quite possible those responsible for this training did not take all the environmental factors into account (risk vs probablility of injury - ammatures acting like professional soldiers = formula for disaster). WordWolf, what you said about the WOW program: you hit that one outa the park on accuracy. I was military before (and partly during) twi but when I did go back into the military as a career, my WOW experience helped. I think the origonal post was for corp folk so excuse me for jumping in here.

Actually WordWolf, was just there and you did the last post - I do appreciate lawyer jokes. In Wisconsin we have a fish called a "Lawyer" - it's a bottom feeder. No Joke!