Rocky

No problem. I didn't expect anyone to give this deep consideration... at least not immediately, if ever. However, rather than redefining your experience as something other than divine revelation, I believe divine revelation is a legitimate way to interpret the phenomenon, but so is collective unconscious. For me, the difference between the perspectives is that rather than anything outside of divine revelation being considered "of the devil" or some variation on that theme, I don't. Of course, I still believe there is evil in the world, but I no longer choose to believe in it the way The Way does. Nevertheless, we STILL see as though through a darkly tinted window. So, I'm not suggesting there's any need for anyone to accept what I presented "or else..." Whatever the "or else" might be to anyone.

Wordwolf said, on Feb 27, on James French's thread: I said, in pertinent part, in reply: Here's a more substantive reply, including an extended quote from the last two pages of a book by Jean Shinoda Bolen, MD. Wordwolf, I do NOT doubt your claim of having received revelation. Period. I've had thoughts and experiences I believed at the time were God's intervention and/or revelation. My view now is more expansive. More broad. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. I Corinthians 13:12 (NIV) He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Matthew 5:45 (NIV) The following text is from The Tao of Psychology: Synchronicity and the Self by Jean Shinoda Bolen MD (1979) pgs 102-103 In considering how all of the many parables, metaphors, spiritual teachings, and psychological insights noted in this book might fit together, I have the following impressionistic, subjective conception. It seems to me that the Christian vision of the Kingdom of God, the Eastern vision of the Tao, Jung's idea of the Self and synchronicity, the right [brain] hemisphere's intuitive way of perceiving totality and containing opposites, the parapsychological evidence for consciousness separate from brain or body, and the new reality as seen by quantum physics are all part of the same ineffable, invisible, meaning-giving “something.” Each is a glimpse from a different vantage point—each gives us a different impression that is true but not complete. Like the six blind men who groped for the reality of the elephant, we can grasp only part at a time. In this tale from India, the first blind man fell against the elephant's side and said the elephant was like a wall. The second felt the tip of the tusk and was convinced an elephant was like a spear. The third, on feeling the squirming trunk, proclaimed an elephant was like a snake. The fourth put his arms around a leg and said an elephant was like a tree. The fifth, who felt the ear, declared an elephant was very much like a fan; while the sixth, on seizing the tail, said of course an elephant was like a rope. All then fell to arguing about who had the truth. While each of them had part of the picture, all of them missed the whole. Or perhaps we are like Plato's chained men in the cave, unable to see out, seeing only the fleeting shadows cast against the wall, making up theories and certainties about what is outside the cave. We can never fully grasp what is boundless, infinite, and eternal. Yet that small insight glimpsed or intuition felt—of the reality of the Tao, or of God, or the Self, in whatever form—is psychologically central to human experience. It nourishes our spirit, heals our sense of isolated separateness, and restores our soul. […] The deeper significance of synchronicity lies in its demonstration of certain aspects of the collective unconscious, which behaves as if it were one and were not split up into many individuals, animals, and the environment. In the synchronistic moment, the separate “I” no longer feels “How lonely it is”; instead, the person directly experiences a sense of oneness. This is what is so deeply moving in experiences of synchronicity and is why these events are often felt as numinous, religious, or spiritual experiences. When we feel synchronicity, we feel ourselves as part of a cosmic matrix, as participants in the Tao. It gives us a glimpse into the reality that there is indeed a link between us all, between us and all living things, between us and the universe.

I believe self-awareness can be a very good thing. And in a nod to our good friend Bolshevik, I don't believe NPD and psychopathy are necessarily always mutually exclusive.

Have we had this discussion before?

Two and a half minutes...

To your point, on which I agree with you: The speaker (Tali Sharot) in this vid poses that "Most of us think information is the best way to convince people of our truth. And, in fact, it doesn't work that well..." Skip to the end and she says (at 5:20) "The lesson here is that we need to find the common motives.

Not necessarily surprising if he is.

JohnIam's mother's foster brother.

You're probably right on that. I was probably off by saying it was ONLY.

I'm not averse to the concept of a pithy slogan. I don't believe that slogan is at all beneficial to the cause. IOW, calling people who are considering leaving the cult "suckers" is likely to backfire. People don't make major life decisions based on any kind of logic. They ONLY do so based on emotion. Perhaps you would want to review your copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People (Dale Carnegie). A couple of his keys are salient here.

A video featuring a discussion with the author the book Dark Persuasion.

I'm not sure that's an effective or honorable way to label those we'd like to help find their way out of the cult.

I attribute it to the fact that we are what we've learned and experienced. Ten years on (35 years after leaving the cult), reflecting on and re-evaluating my experience and sharing insights on GSC are still important to me. In that ten year span, Charlene wrote a tremendous memoir to benefit her readers with her insight so they (hopefully many) will be able to avoid cultic groups/organizations. She asked me to write a blurb for Undertow. Here's what I shared: “Undertow is a gift to young people and their families who want to understand the inner workings of fundamentalist cults. Charlene Edge’s experience parallels much of my own twelve years as a follower of Victor Paul Wierwille’s ministry. Undertow sheds light on the decisions, questions, and longings that she encountered, and ultimately worked her way through. In the words of Canadian author Matshona Dhliwayo, ‘Books are kinder teachers than experience.’ May Undertow be a kinder teacher to you than Charlene’s seventeen years in The Way International were to her.” —Steve Muratore, publisher of award-winning political blog the Arizona Eagletarian Edge, Charlene L. Undertow . New Wings Press, LLC. Kindle Edition.

I can agree with that.

My impression of this is you take it far too personally when people disagree with you. Why do you even care what anyone believes about you? The main question you perhaps should be concerned about is to what extent do YOU believe you might be "a liar, an idiot or whatever." IOW, you've put your insecurity on display. Good luck in your life Mr French, I wish you well. But validation here on GSC isn't necessarily something that's going to help you become more confident in your beliefs.

Hey T-Bone(r) LOL... I realize this quote of yours may be a figure of speech. I doubt you believed from the first post he made that his judgment had much merit.

Are you sure you are able to step inside his mind? Btw, it's obvious that you like to do other than just "to praise God for all the great things He has done and tell people about it." Either that or you do things contrary to that declaration anyway.

Let me restate it for you... "I believe T-bone hasn't been consistent and I don't appreciate it." Also, who cares who you like and who you don't like or whether you feel you have justification for your opinions.

All caps? Seems to say a good deal about your perspective that you may have wanted to get people to actually read your message in order to grasp your meaning in a way that might get them to give serious consideration. "T-BONER?" Oh please...

I can't imagine you expected him to (be able to) answer it.

Btw, that's one reason I used an "I" statement. I do appreciate that you ended your sentence with a question mark. You apparently were asking me for clarification. To clarify (whether you were asking or not), your testimonial is YOUR testimonial. I have no right to say your testimonial is untrue. That's why I wasn't doing so.

I used an "I" statement. I believe. I don't believe. That is in stark contrast to declaring it's not available at all. It would be tedious for me and for readers for me to spell out what I believe about what IS available. Briefly (hopefully), rain falls on the just and the unjust. I'm not sure that everything humans receive by what we learned from TWI constitutes revelation necessarily is limited to what God plants in our brains/minds/consciousness because we are in the household of God, or even that we are born-again Christians. Things happen. In order for us to know it is revelation from God as we were taught (from the Bible), does that mean anyone who gets anything intuitively who is not a believer must have gotten that revelation from the devil? I no longer subscribe to that version of what constitutes good vs evil. A lot of what occurred in TWIs history was evil. Thanks for bringing it up again.

No. I said: "I don't believe..." that's an "I" statement. It stands in stark contrast to the fact that I did not declare that such things are not possible. I also believe I'm neither qualified to evaluate your claims about your experience nor am I qualified to make any such declaration about what God has made or would make available.