Rocky

I don't blame you or T-Bone. I actually got through about 7 minutes of the first linked video. It's ALL bull$hit. In that 7 minutes he says, actually, nothing other than nonsense that can only now be reasonably interpreted as working to hypnotize his audience. He's aiming a firehouse of BS at the audience to mesmerize all viewers/listeners. "I am SOOOO grateful to Almighty Gawd for the privilege..." blah blah blah.

15 hours? Do you have any insight on where on those videos to find the specifics to which you refer?

Very true. We experienced a glut of disinformation in TWI that we were ill-prepared to cope with by use of critical thinking and analysis. That was the "genius" of Victor's PFLAP class. In said class, more that teaching us how to make God's Word our own, he conned us into making him our guru. A guru we referred to as The Teacher, and more "affectionately" as our Father in the Word. It was all bull$hit. We can grasp that now based on decades of re-evaluating a whole lot of the content and our experiences inside the cult and the corps(e) and since then, having to cope with real life. Real life that included marriages, families and children, which for me included a LOT of hard knocks. I am thankful to be a survivor, in spite of my lame efforts to incorporate bad biblical teaching and anachronistic social values.

Yes, I believe I did. Yes, it was at the time we experienced it. Who knows (the Shadow probably knows whether it still does?), but even if the cult doesn't abuse its power so egregiously these days, it's still built on false concepts of godliness. IOW, the people in it might try to be nicer and less abusive in particular, but there are limits. Anyway, abuse of power, as Keltner argues, which is what "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," is about, is based on the 16th century conception of power [Machiavelli] as something that is to be grabbed. But anymore ethical/moral organizations recognize that power is given, not grabbed. Given by the followers, not grabbed or asserted by the rulers. That would comport more closely with he who would be the greatest among you must be the least/lowest. Anyway, I appreciate both of you, Nathan and T-Bone. Also, if you'd like, I presented a similar theme in my recent (this evening) post on my blog. But I did so in a political context, so I will not put the link here. You may, if interested, either do an internet search or send me a private message and I will be happy to give you the link. However, without the political context, and more directly related to TWI and any other cult or religious group, the bottom-line is compliance is voluntary, but defiance brings consequences that followers (as I am confident you and most, if not all GSC readers), know already includes harsh penalties such as ostracism, i.e. Mark and Avoid (which might, by now, be a registered trademark of The Way Corporation) and public shaming.

by whom? My newswriting professor drilled into my head to never use passive voice. In this case, we surmise but Russell doesn't spell out the answer.

Yes, Keltner's. Part of his power principles categorized as abuse of power. There's plenty of literature on leadership, here's just one example. It's really okay if you don't, agree with the idea at this point. I'm just presenting it, not demanding anyone agree with it.

Then I saw this two minute clip which I found salient, from 1959. That was the year I first started kindergarten. I remember making potholders and having a crush on a classmate named Mary that year... and also that I liked to dress up as Eliot Ness from the Untouchables. But I digress, because my early memories aren't the subject of the clip.

This video talks about conformity. Which relates to "I have no friends when it comes to the Word..."

Well, it's been close to 40 (well, at least 36) years since I last heard Victor's voice (other than on youtube), but that quote sounds accurate. His intended meaning, I now guess, goes to the concept of leadership. Leading can be a lonely journey because leaders do not always garner followers immediately. OTOH, it also shows that his empathy deficit and may have been one of the earliest manifestations of his design foundation for a subculture built on "I'm right and f... you if you don't agree." Or, put in terms a bit less stark, perhaps you don't belong in our household/cult.

Yes, absolutely "jerk" is a euphemism. A fitting one, I believe.

Fine, even though it's not a person. However, Let's not get into insulting (here) a person who had a LOT to do with the genesis of GSC.

Now you seem to be derailing the thread.

Oh myy! Not that I had anything to do with blaming you, but sorry.

Btw, this is a back cover blurb on Power Paradox attributed to Frans de Waal, author of Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?

I thought you had your own stories regarding Loy? I don't expect he tried to sexually assault you, but haven't you expressed your animas toward him on GSC previously? Waydale, predecessor to GSC was primarily about Loy and his harassment. I'd be surprised if none of that remains on GSC.

Oh? I thought you already knew. From your personal experience and observation. Far be it from me to do anything but defer to you to describe it and/or suggest interested readers to employ the search function at the top right on the page. If you can share some of your experience and observation without being overly triggered, please do. In the simplest terms, from my perspective, he was known to sexually harass, abuse, and coerce women especially employees of The Way Corporation.

From the Guardian story: I agree completely.

That quote sounds very much like Frans de Waal, the primatologist. I first became aware of that in 2018 or 2019 from a TED talk he gave. It resonated with me right away, not necessarily having anything to do with Loy or Victor. But it (both the Power Paradox book and de Waal's TED talk) DOES give indications of how Loy became so easy to knock out of the TWI alpha male position once Paul Allen decided to take legal action. Loy's conduct was so egregiously evil and abusive of the power followers of Victor's ministry tacitly delegated to him, largely without realizing they had done so.

I'll digress. Impact on what? Power is an abstract (and vague) concept until some (not vague) explanation makes it concrete. Dachen Keltner defines it in terms meaningful to human interaction.

Bad things happen... to individuals, groups, society. That's not imaginary. In fact, in the Gospel of John 16:33, Jesus states. That's abstract, until you encounter actual events that cause you trouble. I probably should have used the word "abstract" instead of imaginary. But abstract ideas actually occur in our imagination, don't they?

I can give you a BIG amen on those sentiments. Amen and amen. I bought into it. The hook was so deep it has taken YEARS to unlearn a lot of it. Let me mention again the two books, Bittersweet by Susan Cain and The Power Paradox by Dacher Keltner. I'm confident T-bone, that you'll love them. I found them both at my local public library. Cain spells out that sadness fosters compassion and connectedness. Contrary to the cliche, "power corrupts," Keltner has found through his decades of research, Keltner argues that power is about making a difference in the world. So, his understanding does not incorporate the power of the mind (either God or the Occult) to make things happen just by a matter of our will...er, our believing. Anyway, I already find his book fascinating.

Sure he said a lot. But it still seems overly vague. Impact, I would usually use to describe actions. Do they have impact? The adversary is a concept. Just like mathematics is a concept. Like mathematics, "the adversary" is imaginary. Bad things that happen to people are labeled with that word. That's the way the concept, in OUR IMAGINATION becomes concrete. Then it becomes a part of the limits we place on our imaginations and our actions. Which brings me back, respectfully, to the question of impact on what? Yes, Loy's air punching seems impulsive to me too. A lot of other things he said/says and did/does were probably impulsive. As are many such things with each of us. But whether or not those things with him or us are abusive or not depends on... what impact our impulsive words/actions have on other people and ourselves... it seems to me.

Impact on what? Punching the air seems like he didn't necessarily have anything more specific on the subject.

I now reflect on how long it took me to start looking at my LBGTQ+ brothers and sisters as humans who God loves. It was YEARS after I exited Victor's way. And OMG! How hateful was Loy toward humans who were attracted to others who weren't the opposite gender? Whether Rosie and Donna were a couple in that way or not only matters in recognizing or at least wondering if Loy's depth of emotion on the matter of homosexuality was rooted in his inability to be still and realize that his God and his Jesus still loved him AND his wife. Can you reflect on any other area of belief or practice that you now can see as contrary to the two greatest commandments?

This takes me back to books I started reading in 2018 by author Ryan Holiday. Ego is the Enemy Stillness is the Key The Obstacle is the Way I have found that the REAL keys to Powerful and Abundant Living is in THESE books (and others I've cited in this GSC topic/thread). PFLAP and The Way International is, in my current view, the ANTITHESIS of godly living.