Rocky

I'm not sure if this is a reasonable way to characterize this topic, but it sure sounds like vain babbling to me.

Sigh... there Mike goes yanking everyone else on the thread by a chain while he cannot and does not do anything but obfuscate. It boggles my mind to consider why people still let him do it.

There you go supposing again. Btw, I asked my questions before you posed your "two moderately difficult questions."

Why do you "suppose" anything about anyone? Why would you not simply pose the question, do any of the posters here find the expressions "HIDDEN Christ" or "absent Christ" repulsive, or otherwise believe they are inappropriate? If so, please explain the reason for your belief and/or feelings.

I hope so too. to Tiredgirl.

Holy CARP! Classic projection is what that looks like.

How did Mike get the "good fruit," ostensibly as a result of believing in the Word of Victor in the PFLAP class, in his life before he started to believe Victor's claims? In some sense, Mike's story has been consistent through the decades. But not in this sense. He's got a somewhat elaborate story, but to try to make it fit as a rebuttal on this thread, he appears to be confused. I'm not going to challenge "Mike's story." I, however, DO challenge his effort to insert logic into it. Mike failed in that effort. Could it have been--in Mike's life--that he really did get hypnotized (or otherwise captured by Victor's "theatrics") by Victor's words BEFORE looking for any "good fruit" in Victor's life?

Because that tiny handful of people are/were blinded by the light. Or blinded somehow anyway. This takes me back to Dacher Keltner's 2016 book, The Power Paradox. Wierwille is vividly and easily recognized in the four power principles Keltner together says are all about abuse of power.

Technically, the concept of (and the word) citizen and citizenship didn't arise in common use until long after David's era. What we now consider citizens, then (I think) were considered "subjects." Perhaps nowadays in the UK, a person is (or can be) both a citizen and a subject. That said, semantically and rhetorically, your point is the same, if my understanding is even close to being correct. Nevertheless, Wierwille wasn't a king, didn't have a kingdom lawfully, and I'm confident he could easily have been convicted of sexual offenses based on what we know of his history.

TWI is nothing if not all about magical thinking and narcissism. Rationalization to the Nth degree. As if "BUT GOD" has ordained this cult with special magical powers or something. Here's an illustration of twi's closed loop spiral... with illustrative perspective.

Blah blah blah. Yada yada yada. LAME excuse. Multiple people made the suggestion, YOU didn't heed the suggestion. That's on NO ONE but you. Could the REAL reason for your choice to not start a separate thread be... maybe you feared no one would engage with your nearly incoherent rambling? IDK. Nevertheless, it's STILL on you and you alone to either post or not post rather than derail other threads.

That somehow reeks of narcissism and insecurity. More than one person suggested you start a new thread (i.e. LIKE THIS ONE) instead of continuing to derail the other thread. Just say what you want to say and let go of the self-centered nonsense. Are you going to be criticized? Undoubtedly. Will it be personal criticism or rebuttal of what readers disagree with? Who cares? YOU come here to disagree. Either do it or go home (so to speak).

and no, I am not the source of Twinky's private message quoted in her comment.

Amor fati Here's where I embrace my fate of not having been one of the Captains of the Football Team in twi. I had no sexual conquests but I did engage in pre-marital sexual activity a time or twi during my time in thrall to the cult. Enough sexual activity to make me very thankful I was not one of the clergy or leader otherwise. I know I would have failed in some respects. Always believed it would have been improper for me to take advantage of (prey upon) women. But if they were to come on to me during that time of my life, I am self-aware enough to recognize it could have been a huge stumbling block for me.

I still believe it's legitimate and fair to characterize Wierwille's schtick as hypnotism. Some bought the suggestions, some didn't. Those who saw through it, didn't stick.

I'd probably ask he/she/it to wait until I got a pen and paper so I could write it down.

Even after starting a new thread/topic was pointed out and suggested to Mike.

And this eye roll is about the entirety of Mike's rambling, rationalizing comment.

Bless his heart, Mike is nothing if not persistent in his Quixotic endeavor to rationalize what he believes is the NON error of Wierwille's ways and teaching. My "first thought" when reading his latest post had something to do with an essay Princeton (University, not divinity school) Philosophy Prof (emeritus) Harry Frankfurt once wrote on the massive proliferation of BS in modern life. But I'm thankful for those who rebutted Mike's malarkey.

I can say AMEN to that. Idk about a prompter, but it seems obvious that they amplified the applause sound quite a bit.

THAT is an I statement. Initially you implied others were wrong. Even if others WERE wrong, I statements work, insinuations, not as much. Nevertheless, You could indeed start a new thread to carry on your discussions w/Nathan and T-bone and it would be ON your new topic.

Gaslighting. BTW, not everyone here is familiar with how insidiously he has OFTEN derailed and taken over threads by BAITING people into bickering unrelated to the topic intended by the OP. Please don't take Mike's bait.

You thought wrong.

even more.