Rocky

I don't think he has to worry about health care coverage anymore.

From the "Craig has his own spinoff" thread:

Other than that he demanded those things be kept in the "lockbox."

Nathan, if this post is going to endure over time, it might be a good idea to clarify. What it says you quoted from T-Bone was really T-Bone quoting what Wierwille used as his self-justifying rationalization. Then again, maybe I just did so for you. Nevertheless, I had to read both comments (your and T-Bone's) closely to figure it out.

Insightful message. Nevertheless, we CAN judge/evaluate/measure against known standards VPs/LCMs words and actions.

Hold all questions till the end of the last session. Seriously, however, I don't remember. Yet, peer pressure was paramount. I'd love to find out how many people started but didn't finish the IC. Regardless, for anyone who had the need for belonging to the group, I doubt this point would be a deal breaker.

Norm Crosby master of malapropisms

The MIRACLE of YouTube.

Did you mean to say viscous? Overall, this thread has an amazing list of problematic TWI teaching and practices. I am impressed. I'm wondering if Mike will show up and try to derail the thread... nah, I doubt it. Putting all these things in one thread was clever.

Truth!

I very much appreciate Fred's insight as quoted. The second paragraph I quoted above is very meaningful to me and has been for years. The way I look at it is such that we are the sum total of our experience and learning. Whether we remain victims of Wierwille's con game or not is within our power to decide. At least a few times, I have spelled out some of the things Vic and Loy influenced me to incorporate in my life and how those things have caused me pain in relationships for a long time. In some cases, the pain is ongoing. Yet, I wouldn't be who I am or know what I now know or be able to do or write what I do without having endured crucibles that forced me to face up to my faults and mistakes. I am content in my own skin and very thankful for being a survivor. Nevertheless, I expect to continue to confront, one way or another, BS like Mike's and cult-like nonsense I encounter in civic life. Btw, whether I agree with your values, Dear Reader, or not, I encourage you to exercise your citizenship and vote in the upcoming election. Thanks to early voting, I already have done so.

Not that I needed or expected an apology of any kind from you T-Bone, but I do appreciate your capacity to reflect and re-evaluate.

Rings true like church bells that can be heard for many miles."...if [SINCE] he has this mindset of rationalization..." Everybody does the same thing. Rationalization is a powerful defense emotional mechanism. As is denial. But I figure since you recognize these realities in a certain relative, you probably already know how pervasive and powerful the concepts are at protecting a person's emotional "well-being."

From Daily Stoic: OTOH, enduring the crucible undoubtedly changed Stockdale.

There's those damn platitudes again. Nevertheless, it can take time for anyone to decide to let go of said resentments. Oh, puhleeze. You have no idea why anyone is here other than what any one person may declare about their motives. YOU, sir, have made it clear that YOU have issues. Sharing how I did about crucibles I endured and how they changed me is the opposite of talking in platitudes. This day, you may not want to see it. So be it. Nobody can fix you but you. Your journey may take a long time. My journey has certainly taken a long time. Your efforts to blame Waydale and/or GSC are most definitely misguided, however. Peace.

No doubt.

Do you mean "criminal case" rather than having used "federal case?" Hence the potential catastrophe of a class action civil suit to twi. In such a situation a $65 million treasury wouldn't go very far. Rosie knew that. She (and whoever with her) decided to survive and make twi survive by settling with the Allens. Note today's news that a jury awarded a certain broadcaster's Connecticut victims (of his harassment) nearly a BILLION dollars. Until one or more follower decides to step up and lead. And we have known since well before the emergence of the interwebs, sunlight is the BEST disinfectant. Waydale wasn't responsible for your emotional pain. Life is inherently unfair. Factors enter into situations beyond what anyone can control. You probably know that on an intellectual level, even though your emotions may be holding you to a different perspective and framework for understanding and coping with your experience. NOBODY instigating the shining of sunlight on the evil actions of Loy or the evil subculture enabling him necessarily had ANY idea of possible collateral damage inflicted on innocent bystanders. Stephen Covey, the late author of 7 Habits of Highly EFFECTIVE People wrote, “But I kept thinking about it. I really went inside myself and began to ask, ‘Do I have the power to choose my response?’ “When I finally realized that I do have that power, when I swallowed that bitter pill and realized that I had chosen to be miserable, I also realized that I could choose not to be miserable. “At that moment I stood up. I felt as though I was being let out of San Quentin. I wanted to yell to the whole world, ‘I am free! I am let out of prison! No longer am I going to be controlled by the treatment of some person.’” *** It’s not what happens to us, but our response to what happens to us that hurts us. Of course, things can hurt us physically or economically and can cause sorrow. But our character, our basic identity, does not have to be hurt at all. In fact, our most difficult experiences become the crucibles that forge our character and develop the internal powers, the freedom to handle difficult circumstances in the future and to inspire others to do so as well. Covey, Stephen R.. The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change (pp. 80-81). Rosetta Books. Kindle Edition. My divorce and custody disputes, in and about which I was easily able to find information clearly demonstrating that what happened to me was grossly unfair and hurtful, became crucibles for me. I couldn't control the situations and too many of the outcomes. Yet, as unjust as those events were, and as emotionally difficult as they were for me, I have emerged (nearly 30 years after my divorce) much more emotionally mature and able to handle difficult situations and emotions than I ever was. And like you, Bolshevik, the hurt I endured was outside my control and directly traceable to the teachings and culture of wierwilleism. Like me, it may take you a long time to emerge from the crucible, but you can and you will.

A man (person) hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. So be it. And far be it from me to bicker with you about it.

Perhaps rather than asking social media users, you might find better and more satisfying insight by seeking out and finding academicians who have put research into it and have insight on a possible sociological nexus.

No. We don't agree on what laws (which are not sentient) might be aware of. The law doesn't enforce anything. Agencies with police power exercise discretion as to which laws or whether laws will be enforced. The situation varies by jurisdiction. Laws are written/made by citizens and/or the representatives of citizens. Which laws are or aren't made also vary by jurisdiction. I'm really not interested in and not trying to trigger you. Please recognize it.

Yeah, anyone can post anything. Nevertheless, Loy's reality was unmistakably altered by being exposed via the interwebs, not necessarily in ways he would have preferred. I apologize if this triggers you. That would be clearly contrary to my intent. I won't try to argue or bicker or clarify what accountability via the internet might mean.

Because freedom of religion. "The Law" has been constrained to prevent regulation of religion. As religions, such as twi, RC, and Mormons use that freedom to hide abusive and harmful non-religion related practices to harm children and adults, legislation can address some related issues/concerns/risks. But legislation gets challenged before, during, and after the legislative processes attempt to protect those at risk. The struggle never ends. But it's still an important struggle. Depending on the laws in one's state, citizens might be able to initiate such mitigating efforts in order to keep Big Money interests (churches and their insurance companies) from stopping movements for accountability.

Not sure the state legislature in Ohio could or would have done anything to mitigate the problem. But yeah, it was bound to happen. Over the weekend (just passed), I watched the 2015 movie Spotlight three times. Something (some) legislatures have done and others (including citizens) still can do is eliminate clergy-penitent privilege. (Btw, THIS is a matter of law/legal discussion, NOT politics.) Several US states have successfully eliminated it. In others, certain churches have thwarted movements to eliminate it by carrot or stick manipulation of only a handful of legislators. It's application to the RC and Mormon churches would have substantial impact to mitigate risk of potential harm to children. To twi, it would have been a bit murkier but helpful nevertheless, not limited to potential risk to minors. Eliminating the privilege would require the confessor to report to law enforcement whenever s/he became aware of sexual assault and/or likelihood of assault in the future. And to testify in court when necessary to put such facts into evidence/record. In the RC church, an abusive priest goes to confession w/one of his colleagues hearing the confession. Because of the privilege, the one who heard the confession is prohibited from disclosure to law enforcement. I'm confident readers here are aware of the pervasiveness of the problem in the RC church. Spotlight cited former priest and research psychologist Richard Sipe as estimating at the time of his research, 6 percent of all priests in the RC church act out in sexual ways with children. In Boston, during the time of the Spotlight investigation, that estimate was 90 priests. The Globe's investigative team identified 87 such priests. There's NO question the social structure of twi enabled clergy and other leaders to "command" or otherwise elicit sexual compliance from (younger) adult married or unmarried women. There's no question that accountability via the internet made a difference. And Bolshevik, I'm so sorry for how people in NK blamed you. Hopefully, that too has passed.

Nobody believes you... on this website. You don't have either adequate communication skills or ability to relate to those you hope will read your blather.

Or perhaps better characterized as a TROLL.