Rocky

In your claim, it's unclear whether your comparison is apt or fallacy. https://effectiviology.com/false-equivalence/

Says who? How would you know your claim is true?

And then there's the question of burden of proof. Hypothetical: person 1 makes a statement about person 2. Person 2 believes the statement is false and harmful to him (person 2) and sues person 1. Who has the burden of proof? Who has to prove what?

Or our astronomical home from spinning.

I wonder why you feel you must apologize. You did nothing wrong. However, to me it is noteworthy you feel safe enough to BE personal here. FWIW, I'm reading, this evening, in the book Emotional Inheritance: a Therapist, Her Patients, and the Legacy of Trauma. There are three parts to the book, as author Galit Atlas describes emotional inheritance from our grandparents, then from our parents, then from the perspective of the patient(s) themselves. Thus far, in each (I'm 75-80 percent through the book) I found myself considering what I might have inherited from each, including the two grandparents I never met. Clearly, Wierwille represented a parental figure to many of us (and likely, to second generation wayfers who never met him, a grandparent figure). My main point is you have every right to work through your own therapy on GSC however you decide you need it. That could also be what Mike's doing too... but for him, it's trying to justify an unworthy parent. Anyway, my best wished to you Charity.

There is SOOOOOOOO much malarkey in Mike's comments on this thread. If he had anything genuine to teach or write, it seems obvious he would have actually developed his thoughts and research before presenting it... instead of telling us he'll get back to us with the scriptures which back up his (thesis?) ideas? Does the expression/idiom "going off half-cocked" mean anything to any of you? I'm not seeing how any one commenting on his half-baked notions will help him or you or anyone else. What's the meaning of the phrase 'Go off at half cock'? Speak or act prematurely. Flintlock firearms have a 'cock' or striker mechanism, which is held in a raised, sprung position ready to discharge and make a spark to 'fire' the gun. These can be set at half-cock, when the gun is in a safe state, or at full-cock, when it is ready to be fired. A gun would only 'go off at half-cock' by mistake. The term half-cock is as old as flintlock guns and appears in print from the mid 18th century; for example, in John Desaguliers' A course of experimental philosophy 1734–44: "The gun being at Half-Cock, the Spring acts upon the Tumbler with more Advantage." The earliest known citation of the phrase 'going off at half-cock' comes from London and Its Environs Described, 1761: "Some arms taken at Bath in the year 1715, distinguished from all others in the Tower, by having what is called dog locks; that is, a kind of lock with a catch to prevent their going off at half-cock." We now commonly use 'go off at half-cock' or, in America, 'go off half-cocked', to mean 'speak or act impulsively and without proper preparation'. This clearly alludes to the sudden discharge of a firearm. Despite that, the first figurative use of the phrase had a completely different meaning. When the 'half-cocked' imagery was first appropriated it was to mean tipsy, or half-drunk. #### So, Mike, what's your favored potent potable these days?

Oh pleeze!

Yes. The characters will be key. I was thinking of The Handmaid's Tale, but yes, definitely.

Fiction (novels) can be more powerful than memoir. Your comment quoted herein has the makings of an incredibly compelling novel.

Or that YOU believe nothing is inspired by God? Or, rather that any given person could choose to look at the situation in that particular way?

For those who remain "in" that cult, I suspect the PR impact will be ultimately nil. They're experts at social enforcement. So, the question will be, how many will exodus out. I'm figuring the sense of belonging is overwhelming and a very high percentage of their church will remain steadfast... or whatever way they characterize it.

If I recall correctly, the technical term is BONKERS.

Yes, it is obvious.

1) the $65million figure is likely grossly out of date. We just don't know, but if they were hoarding similarly to past history, and given they've dumped a couple of properties, it could be much more. 2) the LDS fine egregiously underwhelms. $5 million on a $32 BILLION asset value is one and a half hundredths of one percent (0.00015625). IOW, next to nothing as the fund owners/managers are concerned. They probably celebrated with champagne (but didn't disclose doing so to church members). The SEC order said: "According to the order, the Church was concerned that disclosure of its portfolio, which by 2018 grew to approximately $32 billion, would lead to negative consequences."

WOW! Of course, you hit the bull's eye.

I definitely appreciate your experience. However, the reason I mentioned the issue above, is as a warning others may choose to consider in order to emotionally prepare for their departure. Leaving twi is and will be necessary for many individuals and families. Being prepared for the emotional/grieving work can be helpful.

Worth noting is how the human need for belonging is strong enough, without the escapee finding what to him/her is a suitable alternative (it might be a church, it might be some other group meaningful to the person), the pull to remain, rejoin, or splinter themselves ("splinter" has more than one possible and reasonable meaning) might become overwhelming. Again, for me, it was leaving twi at the same time as plenty of others with whom I shared an emotional bond already. The "splinter" then unto a full break/dividing out from twi culture took time afterward.

Remember THIS! Your insight is crucial NOW and into the future.

Did he use Google maps?

Here's a poem written by Mary Oliver. Truly, we live with mysteries too marvelous to be understood. How grass can be nourishing in the mouths of the lambs. How rivers and stones are forever in allegiance with gravity while we ourselves dream of rising. How two hands touch and the bonds will never be broken. How people come, from delight or the scars of damage, to the comfort of a poem. Let me keep my distance, always, from those who think they have the answers. Let me keep company always with those who say “Look!” and laugh in astonishment, and bow their heads. ~Mary Oliver Was Wierwille's claim that "he knew that he knew that he knew" a declaration of hubris or simply arrogance? What does Proverbs 16:18 tell us? I seem to remember him teaching about THE GREAT mystery. And then telling us what he believed it was. I tend to side, these days, with Mary Oliver on the subject of mysteries and doubt.

Probably it can be boiled down to one word: trust. They trust you to provide for their needs. Unlike feral felines and canines.

Of course, that number, reported in an Arizona Corporation Commission annual filing, when said filings required such numbers. There was no requirement for auditor verification. There is no longer any requirement for reporting assets to the ACC. So, $65million was simply a marker usable to build suppositions around.

I wouldn't be surprised either and it's certainly not difficult to imagine. But the thing that spurred my question was wondering how much cash did the capo di capos launder by taking "love offerings" at the limb and region meetings they traveled to without properly accounting for personal tax purposes. Sure, the organization "lawfully" got out of paying its share of social security taxes, but people on the payroll still had to pay and file income taxes, right? Except when they could launder those love offerings and just take home some extra cash. Of course, I don't expect you to be able to either calculate or guesstimate. But considering the lavish lifestyle (nowhere near as lush or lavish as Kenneth Copeland), I figure both of them (Wierwille and Martindale) got away with not paying near their fair share of the cost of civilization (taxes). But I digress.