Rocky

To/For questions in the Bible do not impact integrity on the issues like chockfull addressed.

Sorry...

Why would you challenge Marie's husband to do anything? Did he post here? Does he have any role in this thread?

Sure, you possibly could, if she come back to read. Will she do so?

Wow! Reasonable assumption? How so? Do you have any rational basis to determine your assumption is reasonable? Do you know much about her "life in that program?" You're sure I intend to blame you for her action/inaction? How is that NOT projection? Well, there's a LOT in every line of your comment I quoted herein. My ONLY response is reflection, not declaration. Nevertheless, thanks.

I'm not sure "secret sex ring" is a fair characterization of the situation. I'd recommend searching this site but some of the forums may be restricted (I'm not sure which or to what extent) to those who succeed at registering. I will try to get the attention of the moderators to your post above.

Waydale from my perspective, was the predecessor to GSC. It was started by a guy who (with his wife, who had been sexually assaulted by Martindale) sued TWI and posted relevant information. He reached a monetary settlement which included agreement to shut down the site. Pawtucket then started GSC.

Seriously? Really?

So, you're making a judgment about her motives based on whether or not she continues to engage in a confrontational discussion? How very Christlike of you. I seem to recall Jesus being confrontational in a couple of Gospel records. But only with the moneychangers, Pharisees and Sadducees. Am I wrong in that recollection?

Oh myy. I'm not sure that's defensive, but it sure sounds confrontational. Is it really a GSC social norm to challenge people to participate in an ongoing confrontational "discussion?" I can only surmise such confrontation of MarieP might be a disincentive for her to participate in said ongoing confrontation(al) discussion. And for anyone else might consider dipping their toe in the water here if they are considering adding insight from their twi experience. So, by all means, proceed as you wish. However, if you want new people share here, consider how your words might sound to such prospective contributors. IIRC, there have been plenty of obstructors over the decades here. But MarieP, regardless of how anyone else reads her post at the beginning of this thread, doesn't strike me as one of them.

I went to YouTube a little while ago. I don't know if this video suggests a bit of synchronicity or not, but I found it intriguing and though back to my childhood.

So sorry for what you and Tux are going through.

I statements are not blaming. They are An “I” message is not about being polite. It’s about being clear.  An “I” messages is not concerned with how the other person might respond.  An “I” message is not intended to force another person to “fix the problem.”  It is clear statement that says “this is how it looks from my perspective.” An “I” message says “this is how it looks from my side of things.” If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, no big deal. I don't understand the defensiveness in response to Marie's OP. I don't have a compelling desire to understand it.

Fair points. Nevertheless, "we in the corps" were duped. And yes, GSC has been sounding this alarm for more than two decades. Personally, I'm not offended even if she was engaged in a finger-pointing exercise. No reader at GSC is obligated to refrain from finger-pointing, last I heard. I ran for an elected position to the governing board of the school district my daughter attended, back in 1998. I faced a good bit of criticism, as candidates apparently always do. Thanks to a hit piece about my divorce in a community newspaper at the last moment, I lost the race. The criticism stung. At this point, this criticism doesn't bother me. You, Skyrider, have invested a lot and have valiantly made yourself vulnerable on GSC. That, I believe, is a solid indication of strength of character. I'm thankful for your input, both on this thread and over the years.

RE-reading Marie's OP, I realized the tone and the entire message was an extended "I" statement. Sure, she extended it to "we." What she did NOT do was blame anyone here for anything she did not own herself. MarieP's post was totally in line with emotional intelligence, IMO.

And perhaps sometimes when people show up and make a bold post, they might anticipate harsh replies. There's no social norm requiring the person to continue to engage. In fact, understanding such is implicit in requests made hoping she would engage further. Bottom-line: take it however you like, but I'd encourage people here to not badger people who do and say what Marie did.

I'm not sure someone posting rhetorical questions, suggesting readers examine their words/actions needs to verify her bone fides. I will review her OP, but right now do not recall her making any accusations or inappropriate claims.

Here's another thing we may not have grasped fully in twi: paradox. Two or more contradictory things might both be true at the same time. In my 60s, I can see how I have some wisdom I didn't have, especially between the ages of 19 and 31. We submitted ourselves (at least I did) to someone I now believe was teaching things by word and deed which were wrong a lot. How and why did I obtain such wisdom, if I did at all? I think of Romans 5. "we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Suffering? In the Gospel of John, doesn't Jesus tell us that in this world we will have trouble. Pressure? Stress? Make mistakes perhaps? (Many of them). But in Him we can have comfort and peace. Going through such experiences produces, if we are humble, a depth of understanding (including to correct our "path" or conduct) and wisdom. Wisdom comes by making mistakes and learning from them... rather than steadfastly believing we weren't on the wrong path to begin with, perhaps. Yeah, I use the word perhaps quite a bit. I'm not as certain about things now as I was 40 years ago.

Btw, from a philosophical perspective, I agree with your point on who holds the greater sin. On a personal level, however, I don't necessarily want to compare whose sins are greater or lesser. Nevertheless, Brother Skyrider, I very much appreciate, agree on, and relate to the heartfelt reflection in your two posts/comments this evening. And MarieP, I too encourage you to stick around and continue the conversation.

Proverbs 2: 1-5 come to mind. My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, 2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding— 3 indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, 4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. Some of those conditions are internal, attitude kind of things. But "search for it as for hidden treasure" seems to me to be more tangible, outward effort/action. In this context, readings the research of sociologists and psychologists who focus on cult related matters, for example. That's something I try to do.

BTW, You posed a very reasonable question for readers here. Thank you.

In reflection on my time at GSC, I believe you will find a good bit of self-awareness of that very notion in threads on GSC. For one to be willing to do so, s/he must be personally resilient and willing to be vulnerable, which I believe is an indication strong character. I have expressed my regret and remorse over how I handled my marriage, divorce and child raising. I'm thankful for God's mercy. As to the book to which you refer, depending on whether it's a memoir or a journalistic style exposé, I appreciate your take on it. It takes guts to acknowledge what you did about yourself. I hope you got/get a lot out of the book beyond second guessing the author.

Righteous anger is wayspeak for rationalizing a certain kind of behavior which does not comport with The Great Commandments, sadly.