Rocky

We're very much about people telling their own stories and detailing their experiences, especially in twi, here at GSC.

I understand. However, at some point, you might look at the situation differently.

Actually it makes ME think... the real question(s) for Mike have thus far been aiming at the wrong ideological target. Mike may have just opened up what is/are the actual underlying reason(s) for his obstinance regarding twi/vpw/pflap. I think back to when I spent a year as a wow ambassador in Fremont, OH. Lots of ups and downs that year (40+ years ago). BUT for me, the "nugget" emerged in the Spring of that year when I found time semi-regularly to pray and be alone in a wonderful little spot of nature along a creek on the west side of town. After the green foliage began to emerge with the change of season, that spot became my refuge. Shortly thereafter, I met a family of three, one son, and a couple. We connected and the two adults "took the class." For years thereafter, I longgggged to find that kind of refuge again, but it eluded me. Beginning in the early 1990s, I began reading M Scott Peck books on my daily commutes to work in downtown Phoenix. Shortly thereafter, my crucible became more intense as I went through divorce. But I've been reading increasingly in the 30 years since. I've found some answers. My life has changed dramatically for the better. Most importantly, I've learned that community is FAR from exclusive to twi. And it is very much available to people. God makes the rain fall on the just and the unjust.

Beautiful song. Thanks again for posting it.

I might be mistaken, but the way you worded that thought sounds like you for a long time have longed for a sense of community. I relate to that sentiment. It's not unique to twi. This book by the late M. Scott Peck (author of the Road Less Traveled), Different Drum: Community Making and Peace, might interest you. I read it before Peck passed. The book spoke to me (figuratively).

How had I never before clicking on your link never heard of Iris DeMent? TUVM, waysider, for posting the link.

Yet, all of that "non-splainin" hadn't then, and still hasn't clued you in that perhaps the "foundation" was built on sand?

What a powerful pair of sentences. When I reflect on your story (of your experience here), I can't help but try to quantify our "agency," or free will. Reflecting back to MY "divorce" from the cult, I see how important social influences are in exercising our free will. Yet, even after having broken socially (with support from others who left at the same time) from twi, it still, for far too long of a time, kept me under its influence NOT by way of biblically-based behavioral practices, but by unwritten and highly toxic mores. It took me years to minimize twi's role in my life. I'm very thankful you persevered in getting your story into print.

Might this insight on cultures shed light on this discussion?

Not only do emotions affect the body, the reverse is equally true. Emotions are heavily influenced by hormones (such as those of the menstrual cycle), sexual arousal, insomnia, hunger, exhaustion, sickness, and other bodily states. De Waal, Frans . Mama's Last Hug: Animal Emotions and What They Tell Us about Ourselves (p. 84). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition. And those emotions can hijack our ability to make decisions we might make otherwise... i.e. being "hangry."

Why would ANYone think/believe/act as if anything Victor Wierwille said or wrote matters today even as much as when he said or wrote any of it? Society and culture is changing at an increasingly rapid rate. Think about it.

Does this relate to the discussion?

Btw, right up until the suffragist movement in the 19th century, American women WERE treated as chattel. Talk about insane! The Wierwille [private] Interpretation really WAS all about taking our country back in time. IMO there is NFW the current "leadership" of the cult can change the corporate culture such that it can possibly root out the evil entrenched from the very beginning.

To frame the violation of the marriage relationship issue as such is to consign the women in question to being considered chattel.

It seems to me, both STL and you (NathanJr) made good points. It also seems to me this is only an issue in Western Civilization because of Christianity being the dominant way society frames the issue. Then again, in Islamic regions of the world, people who don't believe in Islam and Allah are infidels, right? IOW, it's all in how the society in which you live looks at it.

YIKES!

So is time. What this anthropologist has to say is one of the ideas that has led me to beleeeve VPW was, even during his lifetime (but much more so in the three plus decades since his corporeal demise) an anachronistic blowhard.

I disagree with the nostalgic notion regarding the offshoots. Sure, walking in love is a noble vision for any community, but as to twi, it's just not feasible.

And I conclude not only was VPW an opportunist cult initiator, but it's also increasingly apparent he was an anachronistic blowhard. Frankly, I've also observed Mike having genuine intellectual curiosity on subject(s) other than vpw, twi, and pflap.

One great secret, IMO, is how "Let go and Let God" is not exclusively a Christian practice.

Exactly.

Intriguing. And there's something to that view.