Rocky

Dot posted on facebook that she was ok... my cousin was in Atlanta tonight and waiting for delayed flights out... she lives in the rural DC area...

btw, the persons who are allowed free reign on that site are particularly the fundamentalists, both christian fundamentist (read, extremist) AND political fundamentalists (read, extremists). And the founder of that site has essentially adopted a practice of APPEASEMENT to wierwille apologists while denying that he is one himself... at the same time as he quickly and harshly shuts down anyone who criticizes TWI... AND anyone who dares to challenge the kind of political hate speech that we've been seeing in America, and which has, indeed been expressed on that WC social site, even to the end of encouraging and/or condoning illegal and violent acts against the government of the United States.

Btw, harking back to this editorial thread on TWI, and my previous "advocacy" for the WC social website, I wanted to now tell folks here that my view of that experience has changed. The founder of that social website had quite a falling out with people on this site shortly after he started his site. While I still believe his intent was benign and noble, it is now nearly two years (and more than 1300 members) later and as things have evolved, it is clear to me that the founder of that site has gotten himself in over his head. The rules and intent stated at the start was to keep that site's forums on subjects of a general nature, applicable to the community of members therein. His stated intent was to allow members to express themselves (more or less) freely on blogs that each member could post to his/her profile page and be responsible for, and control whether or not they wanted to allow feedback (comments in response). At first, it was more freely. Now, for some it is more, and for some it is MUCH less. For example, Penworks' outstanding analysis, which Penworks posted on that site, drew some responses... actually thoughtful responses. However, the founder of that site, as soon as he caught wind of this brilliant analysis and those thoughtful responses -- SHUT IT DOWN. This he has done a couple of times to me also. If this topic is of interest, I can expand on it in it's own thread. But i think this much, since it involves a comment posted directly to this thread, which goes directly to the point of this thread, I hope I do not offend anyone by posting this here. Needless to say, I have already gotten the "spiritual cold-shoulder" from the founder of that site. Live goes on.

As valid as those reflections are, I think Penworks' analysis is the very best I've ever seen or read. The bottom line was that it was always about Wierwille's bottom line... but in terms of describing the organization and the experience for the follower, Penworks summarized, capsulized and put it in a nutshell brilliantly.

Good points...

Of course, in those other scenarios, there is a dimension of power imbalance in the relationship that makes it very clear that consent is questionable at best. I don't disagree with you on this Mark, I'd just clarify that intimate relationships/relations between a teacher/student; a boss/subordinate; and clergy/parishioner should be explicitly stated in applicable ethical codes to be improper. Further, as applicable, if anyone needs to assert or provide proof that nothing in such a relationship took place improperly, the burden of proof would need to be on the teacher/boss/clergy member... at least when it came to any court action of a civil nature (as opposed to criminal), and that statutes can be amended to place MORE of the burden on the alleged perpetrator, if not all of the burden.

Baylor University researchers found the problem to be widespread... by Jacqueline L Salmon Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, September 10, 2009 One in every 33 women who attend worship services regularly has been the target of sexual advances by a religious leader, a survey released Wednesday says. The study, by Baylor University researchers, found that the problem is so pervasive that it almost certainly involves a wide range of denominations, religious traditions and leaders. "It certainly is prevalent, and clearly the problem is more than simply a few charismatic leaders preying on vulnerable followers," said Diana Garland, dean of Baylor's School of Social Work, who co-authored the study. It found that more than two-thirds of the offenders were married to someone else at the time of the advance. Carolyn Waterstradt, 42, a graduate student who lives in the Midwest, said she was coerced into a sexual relationship with a married minister in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America for 18 months. He had been her pastor for a decade, she said, and told her the relationship was ordained by God. (continued)

Do you know what day it is? (except for on the West Coast, then it's in an hour or two)... It's 9-9-09

Right on! (to both Lifted Up and niKa) :)

[quote name=notinKansasanymore' date='29 July 2009 - 11:15 AM' ti mestamp='1248891304' post='471939] And speaking of Cash for Clunkers (see, I told you it's impossible to derail),there is no longer a beat-up, gas-guzzling Wowmobile in the niKa driveway. There's an inexpensive, gets-great-gas-mileage, something-reliable-to-commute-to-the-new-job-mobile. And because of the stimulus plan, we can deduct the state and local sales taxes on it. Interesting week. Wooo-hooooo! Karmic, still thinking about you, Sweet Lady. WOO-HOO indeed! And Karmic, me too!

Never have bought anything from QVC or HSN/C... what a wonderful bunch of kids you have there... and the oldest must be incredibly smart, going to the University of Chicago! :)

Oh... (((((((Karmicdebt))))))), I'm SOOOOOO sorry. It is most understandable that you would feel that way.

Indeed, most, but not all... I certainly was younger than 28, 28 years ago.

Gongrats to you and Chuck on 28 years (tomorrow)! :) 114 here... it's like walking (or running, or bikeriding or driving) through a convection oven. :)

Exactly. The person asking about Mr. Bailey indicated he had graduated from the WC. Therefore, I indicated that he could find two persons with that name at the linked website. I gave no thought to how the info would help anyone other than the person who asked the initial question. If the initial inquiry would have been from someone not having been in the WC, I would communicated something different and done so in a different manner... probably offering to pass along contact information from the inquirer to the person asked about, and probably would have done so privately.

There is more than one "David Bailey" at Way Corps social networking site.

Being a grandpa just seems like it would be about the best thing in the world!

Privatization. End of story. Btw, I escaped HOAland when I sold my house in 2005. I now live in a 55+ retirement/manufactured home community (even though I won't be old enough until later this year). I own my home but rent the space. There's reasonable balance in power relationships here.

Same insight has been shared on this thread repeatedly. It works. People have obtained said insight in various ways, but it all really boils down to that. And in the long run, to keep it off, a person will have to develop eating habits beyond any structured diet. Congrats. :)

The entire concept of HOAs is UNAMERICAN. These breeding grounds for annoying neighbors (the ones who want to lord it over the rest) are, by virtue of their inherent structure, both FASCIST and COMMUNIST. I will not debate the merits of any given issue regarding HOAs... I simply believe they should be completely BANNED in America. However, they will not be banned anytime soon. The reason they have quietly become the dominant form of quasi-municipal government is because they provide and insidiously quiet way to "raise taxes" for municipal services. Of course, none of them want to be known or defined as such, but allowing homeowners to be taxed with little to no voice or oversight, practically speaking, is the secret they want kept hidden. The false label of "free market" choices being made by informed homebuyers is complete BUNK. In most cities in the US these days, there is almost NO new housing being built (for single family ownership) WITHOUT an HOA in place.

I can understand that. There are a couple of times in my life when I've undergone some culture shock. I spent about 3 years on a small island in the Atlantic Ocean (Terceira, Azores). When I returned to the US it was significantly shocking. In my mid 20s, I spent a year (as a WOW) in a small town in northern Ohio. When I returned to real life in Phoenix, AZ after that, I was REALLY shocked, culturally. =========== Anyway, two other important American food industry items to note: a new documentary movie is scheduled for release in June (in selected cities), titled Food, Inc. and (apparently released in 2008) another book, In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan. ========= Btw, I have found myself feeling wonderfully liberated (from my appetite) since I started reading Kessler's book.

New book: The End of Overeating: Taking Control of the Insatiable American Appetite By David A Kessler, MD. ----------- This book is OUTSTANDING! Kessler synthesizes a lot of research studies into very meaningful, easy to grasp, insights that will make the light go on in a big way. With an understanding of WHY and HOW the American food industry has manipulated (many of) us to make many foods IRRESISTABLE, it can be easier (and it is for me) to take control of your (my) appetite. The End of Overeating at Amazon.com